How is Fizz allowed to exist in his current state?

Jefftiffy··6 votes·1,111 views

He is worse than he was pre-rework. Most of the nerfs have been reverted and the buffs have been left untouched. He is still of the highest single target burst champs in the game with stupid low CDs. AP Fizz is still a terror. AD Fizz was popular because of the changes which got reverted because of the problems with them.

An assassin isn't supposed to chain kills with high single target damage without ult. That's not how they were ever designed. Fizz needs his troll pole gutted and trimmed down to pure utility or his ult ratio nerfed. 1:1 in an AoE with a slow and a knock up for a total of 3s of CC is kind of stupid especially with a damage amp tied to it. And the thing is, the second they nerf lich he always gets buffs and he is the 1. abuser of it.

There is literally no counter play to his kit after he hits 6. On target CCs are being removed little by little and he can dodge half of them anyways. AoE CCs are generally wasted on single targets and if he goes in alone he can kill someone Zhonya's to wait for team and troll pole away then come back in 8s (without CDR) to burst someone else.

How to nerf Fizz:

  1. Base MS 335 -> 325
  2. if Fizz uses trickster the hit box is change to be exactly the size of his character hit box (he has to land on you to use it aggressively making it harder to AoE nuke)
  3. His ult's AP ratio lowed from 1.0 -> .8
  4. Q CD to 8s at max rank starting at 12s at lvl 1. E CD at 10s at max rank, CD starts at 18s at lvl 1.
  5. Seastone trident (W) can now only proc the bonus damage up to 3 times. CD starts once the charges are used up. CD is now 12s.

These changes are all designed to make him less obnoxious as well as a bigger fall off for late game.

15 Comments

SouL1ess8 votes

He is still weaker than pre-rework, and he still sucks as an assassin.

Brand hitting you with EQW hits for just as much as Fizz EQW, but I don't see you complaining about it.

Edit: Oh yeah, downvotes inc. Don't forget that QSS cleanses his ult and the debuff, and that Zhonya's saves you from the ult. Have a good day to you too!

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

He is still weaker than pre-rework, and he still sucks as an assassin.

Brand hitting you with EQW hits for just as much as Fizz EQW, but I don't see you complaining about it.

Edit: Oh yeah, downvotes inc. Don't forget that QSS cleanses his ult and the debuff, and that Zhonya's saves you from the ult. Have a good day to you too!

Sure you can QSS or zhonyas the ult but I mean, QSS is wasted gold on a mid laner, yay no AP build paths. And Zhonya's doesn't give you MR to deal with the rest of his kit, and takes 3+k gold to have a real effect on him. Either way you go you are SoL because one way you waste about 500 gold and some damage, while the other way you have to wait an extra 2k gold to even stand a chance.

People sit and say oh but this and that, but when in truth the thing makes fizz so bad now is he can build both item 3100 and item 3285 to get the same damage he did before on his abilities. DFG at least gave you a window if he fucked up. Luden's is near 100% uptime and gives AoE. TY Riot for no understanding of how to balance the game.

Still want to know how his entire early game weakness being nulled by items he can buy with his starting gold is okay.

SouL1ess1 votes

DFG at least gave you a window if he fucked up. Luden's is near 100% uptime and gives AoE. TY Riot for no understanding of how to balance the game.

Still want to know how his entire early game weakness being nulled by items he can buy with his starting gold is okay.

Well you see

Fizz has an abusable laning phase by meta mids. Brand is a counterpick to him because EQW is a lose-lose situation for Fizz, not to mention Brand can output a lot of poke starting from very early (although he needs careful mana management during lane). AD assassins are an easy win against Fizz because of their early damage. Ahri/Azir are also problematic for Fizz because they can trade against him just fine, even when they have to hold onto a skill/miss their skills, although Azir got a lane phase hit after his shield no longer knocks-up champions.

The fact is that Fizz is now forced to max E, and his E will be doing everything, from lane trade potential to wave clearing to escaping. In contrast, meta mids don't usually have their CC effects tied to their damaging skill, e.g. Brand, Syndra, Ahri, Leblanc (kind of), Xerath, Viktor. By dodging the damage, Fizz has to take the CC, and you should be using the rest of your skills + AA + minion damage to trade the damage back. Even better, you can force Fizz to dodge the CC, and then you can hit him with your real damaging skill to trade damage back. Tying Fizz's E to everything he needs to do in lane is more of a disadvantage to him than to the enemy laner (which is why I will usually max W first, when it still had 50 damage max rank).

Fizz buying Flask doesn't make his trade potential better. It gives him sustain. His damage is still weak as is, because it's a lane phase Fizz maxing E (after W got demolished yet again). You can start flask and be on equal footing as him. You still do as much, if not more, damage as him, and you also have the access to sustain that he has. Although I think Doran's Ring + 2 Red is more than enough to handle Fizz, because he doesn't have any inherent sustain of his own. A flask start Fizz still doesn't resolve the fact that meta mids counter him almost completely.

Also, DFG was more problematic than Ludens because pre-rework Fizz can actually one shot you with just his basic abilities + DFG. Luden's doesn't give as much burst damage as DFG, and the missing CDR also forces Fizz to change his build too.

As for the rest of your post, you said that AP mids already have access to Zhonyas. Zhonyas is all you need to prevent a non-fed Fizz from ever killing you. You can Zhonyas his WQ, his E, or his ult, it doesn't matter, he loses damage and it won't be anywhere near enough to kill you. QSS should be for the ADC, who won't be buying Zhonyas. Just like any other assassin, removing an ability from their rotation usually means that they are unable to kill you, and has to wait for another rotation of their skills in order to do so. And a lot can happen in between one burst assassin's rotation, as they usually build full offense and can't afford to use defensive items to give them resilience against damage. Usually assassins die if they are left with no skills off cooldown in the middle of the enemy team.

53436278DEL14 votes

bad players united

Streeton2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fear Become Fury,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eELKKBNr,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-09-14T23:37:02.122+0000)

bad players united

fizz mains...

stealthfox944 votes

lol he isn't more broken than pre-rework back then he could just press w and q and deal like 1500 damage instantly he can't do that anymore unless he's mad fed. Bruiser Fizz is a different story. Either way it got nerfed twice because unfortunately pros loved it.

Streeton2 votes

i have been asking the same question, and yet some fizz mains have the audacity to say he needs buffs... #deletefizz

53436278DEL11 votes

counter play is to dodge R baite E and go ham

Streeton1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fear Become Fury,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eELKKBNr,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-14T23:25:30.180+0000)

counter play is to dodge R baite E and go ham

any fizz player can just flash slow you with his e hit you point blanc with his r and kill you... No counter play

Jefftiffy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fear Become Fury,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eELKKBNr,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-14T23:25:30.180+0000)

counter play is to dodge R baite E and go ham

You act like baiting a 8s CD when he has 20+% CDR means much to him. The only time it is worth baiting it out is right when he hits 6 or pre-6. Don't even say it burns a lot of mana because I see a lot of Fizz's building this all the timeitem 2041 and bringing a ton of pots. When your entire early game weakness can be nulled by buying potions it kind of defeats the purpose of it existing.

stealthfox942 votes

Don't try to reason with these people they seem to think Fizz's e has no cool downs.

Fowus1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fear Become Fury,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eELKKBNr,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-14T23:25:30.180+0000)

counter play is to dodge R baite E and go ham

40% cdr baby

53436278DEL11 votes

{quoted}

40% cdr baby

punish him before he gets it lol e goes on a 4 second cool down or something so learn to abuse mistakes and misplays

Snarflaz1 votes

If your positioning well in a team fight he will have a harder time trying to get you with his shark while in the back, and the tank should be the on stuck with the shark.

nananananacat1 votes

Pretty sure QSS removes Fizzes ultimate. It makes it drop off you and stop targetting you, although it can be picked up by another player if they walk over it.

More from Gameplay

More by Jefftiffy