Guys some one post here later.

Kai Guy·May 16, 2019·1 votes·1,694 views

Let me know when players stop rushing or and are picking up . Just drop a comment here for me when that happens.

15 Comments

Crispy0SnakeMay 16, 20192 votes

Ardent is a good call, I'd say it's a little meh unless you're a decent level (like 9+) for the passive buff, but you're not too far away when you complete it

Ludens is trash tier

Athene's just isn't that good unless you get value from the MR, and it's a scaling item on a champion that is just too squishy to reliably scale

I'd say Twin shadows/Shurelia's are good after ardent, maybe Mikael's is good into some matchups

Kai GuyMay 16, 20191 votes

Take a look at my reply to ZephyerDrake. Do some of the math. How much more healing does her kit stand to gain per fight? 400+ from a single item. This is very usefull, but most folks will undervalue it because they don't account for it being premidigate, stacking from poke, or the impact a massive range AOE abiliy makes. QR even on 1 target is going to almost Cap you after 1 wave and 1 Q. vs 1 target at level 11. Just gets stronger with more targets.

I mean it. Sit down, do the math. turning 35% of all damage you do directly into heals is a good thing for this kit.

Crispy0SnakeMay 17, 20191 votes

You don't deal much damage though, sure your ult CAN be good but that's not always the case, you need to hit Q's to get the heal too

I'm not opposed to buying athenes, my build's intention is to emphasise what she's good at helping her adc do, and that's kiting and chasing, dealing dps. That's why I build item 3504 item 3905 item 2065

Ardent's heal and shield power is a consistent buff, the Athene's heal is much less consistent. You can't add the heal and shield power with the attack speed and on hit damage of ardent and compare it to the heal of athene's in any way other than gold value, and go on LoL wiki Ardent censer and expand the cost analysis, then look at Athene's. Ardent is on another planet

I'm still to try Athene's but I don't really want to sink gold into such an inconsistent item on a champ that has 2 damaging abilities. If it was made for any champ, Athene's would be for Lux, and the item is OK at best on her

Kai GuyMay 17, 20191 votes

Aight. I will try to break down some of the math and logic here.

item 3504 gold efficiency is largely related to how many champions you can steroid, how often, and its value is if they can use the ASonhit. Soraka Sona Janna all have very good synergy. Raka heal is short CD and R is global steroid. Sona's Aura provides a shield over large area resulting in teamfights having multiple Steroids. And Janna Sheild provides AD which ties very nicely into AS synergy. Also... Aoe Heal on her R for team fight steroids.

Yummi does not do this as with much reliability. Her E is best off as bust heal on a low hp target due to its mechanics. using it early for steroid is kinda… meh. Long CD on the charge time. In lane.. The Passives often going to be wasted on Yuumi herself. So that Gold efficiency your seeing on Lolwiki is 50% lower and its best case is also unlikely with this champions kit. You can open fights with a lot of folks buffed but mid fight its going to be difficult to maintain it on more then 1.... and your not really going to want to be unattatched to use the AS yourself.

item 3174 is not remotely difficult to stack. If you cant get charges your doing literally 0 damage. if you do 0 damage your not of much if any help to your team. I disagree strongly with any one represent the item as "inconsistent" Theres very little difficulty in collecting stacks when your "only 2" damage abilitys are both 1100 or more range... to assume you cant stack it is to assume your unable to land a single skill. If you cant do that, your probably should stick to point and click kits because Yuumi skills are stupidly low difficulty to land.

The Consistence of your Ardent 10% heal? Gegollygosh... that's all 14 Extra hp on a max level E on a target under 80%? + leftover AP scalings… so about 4 Hp per 100 AP.

You can out heal that by Autoing once with passive then dashing to a target with Athenes. Level 13 your base AD is gonna net you 31.15.

For some perspective, with Grail, the HP gain to the stack from the passive of a single use of item 3098 is worth 6 hp. I can out heal your "reliable" Ardent passive with 2 autos and a single W cast just off the passive

The Lol Wiki also makes 0 effort or calculation into Grails HP mechanic. Its never addressed or calculated, but Ardent passive is. Bit lazy but what ever, unpopular items don't always have well represented data on the wiki. Hp stat base efficiency runs at 2.6 per gold, as a heal is basically just hp I think that's a fair value to use if you wanted to caculate.

Id happily take a E that has X2 its best case heal value off my Grail. My teammates HP = My hp after all. I want to have targets to remain attached on, throwing out 400+ extra burst healing for me is far more reliable then a value around 28 hp from the Ardent 10% heal boost. AP? same values. MR? some times a wasted stat. course it does make the heal better because your enemy team gonna be ad heavy so teammates building armor makes you better as the cat.

Context of the kit, I don't see how or why players honestly feel item 3504 is a remotely good item to rush on Yuumi . Low damage doesnt matter all that much due to premidigation being what charges it. Plus Q its such short CD and your able to fill the stacks to brim of super safe poke play patterns. Got to mention it again, even if its not max stacks its still bonus healing, a single passive enhanced auto W provides more hp then item 3504 does + that it wont even cost you MP or your E CD to do it.

Comparatively you will hit the best case usage for Grail Far more often then you will for Arden playing Yuumi, I tend to reserve Ardent as a 2nd-4th item depending on team comp. Auto on hit heavy I grab it early. ADC late game I grab it later. If team just scales weakly with it, I skip it entirely for something like item 3107 item 2065 item 3905 Undervalued often but item 3030 can be a viable way to add a bit more damage to your kit as well as some very solid on demand CC. that scales quite nicely with item 3174 . Ap MP and CDR all being stats that are higher value on Yuumi.

Crispy0SnakeMay 18, 20191 votes

You give your ADC these item 1028

I give mine these item 1042

It's that simple

Kai GuyMay 18, 20191 votes

I give my entire team 3-5 item 1028 on the targets who need it most. You can do about 12-18 seconds of about 1-2 item 1042 and but not every target benefits from it... and you might need to sacrifice the Heals value completely.

If I just want to make my ADC look good id play Braum , Nami or Janna and can do it at much less effort much more effectively.

I value the team fight and kiteing/chase power of Yuumis Kit. I don't care at all who I W to so long as I am able to make plays that benefit my team overall.

You have more opportunities to nail the best case usage of Grail then you do for Ardent. And again... literally nothing stops you from grabbing the Ardent as a 2nd or 3rd item when its a good pick for your teams comp... or first if its one of the rare circumstances its the superior option.

Time will tell whos got the right idea.

ZephyrDrakeMay 16, 20191 votes

why would a champion that barely does any damage would pick an item that requires you to do damage for it to be useful? considering her kit Ardent is way better suited for her and the last thing you would want would be athene's. You get next to nothing for building it since you cannot make proper use of the healing passive

Kai GuyMay 16, 20191 votes

Its 35% of **premitigation **damage is stored as a charge. It maxes at 100-250 heal. any value is extra healing, it does not need full charges to activate. Alone, you get 50 Ap off the base + Mp5 AP passive.

So Q is usually going to be levels 4-6 around the time you have a first item outside of wards and support gear. accounting for the AP that's usualy 100 for weak hits 200 for empowered so 35/70 charges, this translates into 30/70 hp. Not to difficult to stack Q into Empowered heals.

Her R is low damage but that's only single target. its aoe. So your nailing folks at least 3 times ideally to get the snares. Very forgiving hitbox, can use rest of the kit to adjust aim as well. Its not remotely difficult to nail more then 1 player. Again empowers her E and also will trigger if she has passive. your Eternal Shield if you have it from passive? that triggers a heal every time you swap if you have a charge. (hilarious with ardent late game during an R.)

But, Comparatively? item 3504 10% heal boost is nothing. 10 AP is not breaking the bank as you also need to account for item 3098 MP making item 3174 worth 60 AP. Its 5 AP per 25% Mpregin. So same AP gains. Both work to enhance her kits heals. mid game whats better AS or Burst Healing? 1

So one q is going to empower your next E more then anything you see ardent provide. 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70 (+ 10% AP) For Weakest heals, 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 (+ 40% AP).

At 200 Premidigated damage your seeing the 35% = 70 HP. So... 100% more hp on her low value heals, 50% on her Highest value. Comparatively 10% on a 70Hp heal Is like... 7hp... you get all of an additional point of damage for low value heals to bring it up to a jaw droping.. 8 hp?

Same AP because of Frostfang MP passive so no increase in heal or damage from ardent. The Passives lower value early game as it scales off EXP. AS,Onhit, All lower gains low levels.

Also later if you do have a good comp... Your inventory has plenty of space for item 3504 which gets an extra 10 ap from the grail Passive. But Grail is providing way more heals to her kit, same damage, and adds extra scaling.

Short handed the math but you can see on paper pretty fast that 100 or 50% > 10%. Around level 13 you hit 200 Charge cap on the Grail... So your now over doubling her E BEST case casts. compare, level 11-13 188-200 Hp gain > 10% of 140

You don't need max stacks, you gain off any damage , its not difficult to land Q or R or passive.

You tell me if theres a good reason why I should get Ardent first besides most players are conditioned to do so Because other enchanters do it?

usul1202May 16, 20191 votes

Because your heal is not your entire kit, and your capacity to proc ardent and buff your adc as they begin to get items, which has a multiplicative effect with the stats you provide them, and can give additional choices in build path.

Also better build path, chalice sucks into any non-ap supp.

Kai GuyMay 17, 20191 votes

Because your heal is not your entire kit, and your capacity to proc ardent

Your heals not your entire kit so let me talk about another item that's only interactions with your kits heals. [sg-lux-2]

Your entire kit is your capacity to build up Grail. And HP is a valuable stat for every teammate not just adc. Im not saying skip ardent or never get it. Just don't rush it and if you want to see an item that provides a nice early game power spike item 3174 is your guy.

usul1202May 17, 20191 votes

Ardent also interacts with your shield, provides ms (a very valuable stat on squishies), provides a multaplicative stat bonus to your adc beyond the heal, and, as I said, builds better for a smoother power curve. It's a better rush item imo because it is going to create more strength in early 2v2 fights, and from what I've seen yuumi's biggest threat is getting shit on so hard early her late game power and buffing is useless because you're too far behind.

Kai GuyMay 17, 20191 votes

Grail interacts with shield passive. Free 0 mp heal. MS is not as valuable stat on Yuumi when your using her W properly. Power curve? what. rushed is level 9 usualy your in the ball park of 12 on hit and 20 ish % as? Vs 400+ off 1 item not counting base value Heals on any teammate OnDemand?

With the Grail first big item your looking At 200 less gold for item cost but I'm getting the exact same AP. Far superior heals then 10% boost. 50% more MpRegin. I lose the Steroid... but im putting up several hundred hp worth of heals per fight onto any target that needs it.

Your Ardent rush does what better here? MS? Kinda wasted on a champion whos gonna be attached. realistically looking at a best case of 70-90 ish extra damage for your adcs autos per 6 seconds after using E or W after passive trigger?

No idea why any one would value 180 or so damage over 350-400 in heals. Don't really see a dramatic of an impact off the AS till your adc is on their 2nd or 3rd item depending on who they play. Fantastic scaling later on... But first item?

The inevitable claim that "It scales better late game? " ok.. so get it as a later item then. not a complicated idea and you get 10 extra AP from grail passive.

I don't get how folks crunch the numbers in relation to Yuumi kit and think item 3504 is remotely the optimal starting item. Far better as a 2nd-4th slot pick, or ignored completely, depending on team comps.

usul1202May 17, 20191 votes

Early game I have not seen successful yuumi's spend 100% of time attached, and instead they've been making lane pressure and warding. Which requires ms to not get fucked up.

Better power curve means when you're buying components you're not sinking 800g into 50% mana regen when you don't need Mr, since unless you snowball you're unlikely to full buy as she has a relatively weak lane.

A the heal isn't constant gain, and b yes I would take that. A little bit of early attack speed is everything, especially with how in ie rushing is. Getting an extra auto in most trades is big. Yuumi procs it very conveniently in lane too, allowing bullies like Cait and Draven to create 1 auto trade opportunities with that speed.

If you're with a weak laner like xayah, sure, go the grail. You're not going to beat a Draven in a fight, build to survive and move on. But if you're in a position to contest lane dominance I think ardent is a better choice for the consistent offense it brings.

Kai GuyMay 17, 20191 votes

I see that your some one who doesn't cookie cutter builds. Nice man! I dislike when players CTRL C CTRL V for builds.

Your right, I can not in good faith recommend Grail over Ardent if your ADC is Draven. His kit just functions better. He has a solid damage steroid on Q, his MS/AS steroid synergyes dam well with zoomies/ardent. Early ardent, It just gives him more windows to cash out on his passive off his item 1 power spike. Hell its draven, item 1038 alone adds a lot of threat to him.

Your higher on the ladder so your Caits are likely far more reliable then what I see. I play it by ear in my MMR... There is a massive impact on Strong/Weak Snare trap mechanics with cait players.

Who else... Twitch Potentially if he is using his QRE consistently well would benefit from the Ardent, the window to respond to his R is pretty low and rushing at him with a Yuumi hat is just asking to get slapped by a snare.

Almost any one else Id rather be stacking Unholy healing, it also fits my playstyle patterns better.

I am always really happy to do long conversations about pros and cons and defend my logic but I don't know if that's relevant to your personal interests. I don't just hat folks and afk spam Q and E.

I frequently am using the MR and Hpregin components of item 3028 .

usul1202May 17, 20191 votes

I don't always have as much build diversity as I ought to, but proper building can make a game.

Ultimately, it would be a choice of heal style or aggression. I personally would pickup ardent first for almost any lane where I'm running with an Ashe Draven Caitlyn Kaisa Jinx Kalista Sivir Varus or Vayne , with maybes on Tristana and Xayah .

Stuff like luc and ez I'm not a fan of it with. Either Athens or a redemption rush there, depending on if I want to skirmish or team fight.

Personal style is always a big choice. The best yuumi's I've seen don't hat a lot in laning, which is one reason I've valued the ms from ardent so high. I could be overvalueing though, having only played against her I haven't had the chance to spam the different kitty builds myself. Probably going to wait till her cost decrease; non of the adcs in my friend group have similar styles to me and we'd end up Inting together regardless of build.

Edit: kog and twitch on the list of maybes. Twitch I missed, and would be snowball dependent. Kog I just... Forgot about him being an adc. Can't remember the last one I saw. He needs to be babied enough to take athenes into an ap poke or all in lane for sure.