Orianna support: situationally the better Janna?

notice me Sin pi··3 votes·1,343 views

of course, Orianna cant cockblock enemy engages like Janna does. And yet, their utility is actually not too different from each other. They both provide speed boosts, slows, shields(+stat boost), and knock ups. There are things Orianna does Janna's job way better. Maybe im heavily biased because i recently tried to learn Ori support. What do you guys think?

shield . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Janna . . . . . . . . . v s .. . . . . . . . Orianna Shield amount: . . they have same base amount at all ranks CD: . . . . . . . . . . . 10sec . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9sec duration: . . . . . . .4sec . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5sec shielding range: . 800 units . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1100 units additional stats: . AD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . armor&MR stats wear off when shield wears off: Yes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .No

of course, Orianna 's shield doesnt insta-cast like Janna 's unless the ball is already on that ally. But i don't think that alone is enough to dismiss all the advantages in shield chart above as useless either.

movement speed modifier tried to put it in a chart format but rly difficult cuz since they work very differently. Janna 's speed boost for allies (passive) works only when they move toward her. Constant CD less 8% speed modifier Janna 's slow (W) works only on 1 enemy. Usable at 600 units away at max. Orianna 's speed boost (W) for allies can work regardless of where they are heading, making her the better chasing utility champ. Usable at up to 1100 units away by shielding. Slightly higher if ball on ally beforehand. Decaying 20%/25%/30%/35%/40% speed modifier that lasts 2sec And can also slow multiple enemies. Usable at around 700~800 range usally, and situationally at max, up to 2x of Janna W range.

auto attacks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Janna . . . . . . . . . v s .. . . . . . . . Orianna aa range: . . . . . . .475 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .525 aa modifier_: (E)--shield urself . . . . . . . . . . . . (P)-aa deals more dmg

In extended trading, Orianna 's aa increases, unlike Janna whose aa modifier get negated once shield wears away. In addition, Orianna aa range is only 25 lower than most adcs, which lets her harrass in lane a lot better than Janna and have a lot more early game impact, which something i believe is very crucial in current meta maybe it's not, depending on elo.

ult . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Janna . . . . . . . . . v s .. . . . . . . . Orianna cd: . . . . . . . .150/135/120sec . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110/95/80sec engage: . . possible but not great, mostly . . . . . reliable in teamfights disengage: . . very reliable . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . possible if skilled enough hurts to screw up: . heavily. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . not as much

i wont comment on dis one

EDIT: "situationally the better Janna", NOT "always the better Janna"

16 Comments

V002 votes

Glad to see this post as I've often had similar thoughts when looking at Orianna's kit, but I've never actually tried it in real games for fear of being flamed. Curious if anyone else has actually tried it and what their experience on it was like.

notice me Sin pi1 votes

i went 5W-2L with orianna support recently in norms, and 1W-2L with janna supp so that's why i posted this at first place. So far I'd say the best part about her kit is her auto-attack passive that lets her bully enemy adc. Im probably biased tho since i use a lot of aa to harrass in lane

Mysticman892 votes

Janna has a much better ap ratio on her shield amount (70% versus 40%), so jannas shields are likely to be better at all stages of the game.

I'm also a big fan of building mejais on Janna since she has the tools to ensure she stays alive and keep her stacks, while ori would be playing a much more dangerous game if she went that route.

Relatedly, theres a lot of justification for Janna to build AP, since the utility part of all her skills except her Q scales with it (more passive move speeds and more slows on her w, more ad and bigger shields on her e, and more healing on R). With Ori on the other hand, building AP only amps her damage and her shield strength (by an inferior ratio as mentioned), so that's not necessarily a good thing on a support ori, as you don't want to accidentally take kills from carries. Not to mention most AP items aren't very accessible on a supports budget anyway. (If neither build AP, I'd assume some AP runes would give Janna the edge.)

Ori certainly has some support-y tools and she even is (or maybe was, haven't looked in new client) classified as a support secondary, so I wouldn't consider support ori to be trolling, but I feel like in the vast majority of situations she's going to be outclassed by Janna as a support (although tbh I feel like janna outclasses everyone as a support, but that's my janna main bias). There might be some very specific situations that ori might show up and be better, but I feel like those situations would only show up a few times in any given game, and over the course of the entire game I'd expect Janna to be better on average.

notice me Sin pi1 votes

i posted this after going 5W-2L ori supp and 1W-2L janna supp in norm. I guess i was building janna wrong. I left out the ratios cuz supports usually dont have a lot of gold to make use of that ratios significantly unless hyper lategame, but i suppose item 3041 is cheap enough

Mysticman891 votes

Theres lots of ways to build Janna, and I've seen challenger Janna players who opt for what are essentially full AP builds, and other challenger Janna players who opt for full utility item builds. Some will insist the other version is trash, but since both work at the highest levels, both seem viable. Personally I tend towards mejais+utility stuff as someone with 1 mil+ janna mastery, but I'm still a ways from challenger.

Mejais is relatively cheap to pick up and I find janna can get stacks easily, but obviously the viability of mejais will depend on how confident you are at not getting caught out. Janna has plenty of tools to stay alive, but she is very squishy and can be prone to being bursted if your reflexes aren't on point (or things are on cd). Challenger elo might feature fewer deaths in general to gets stacks too, so that might be a consideration.

In any case, personal skill between the two is gonna be a fairly big confounding factor, but I feel like someone at the skill cap with support janna would be more useful than someone at the skill cap of support ori on average. I think (scaling) AP runes on Janna are a good idea, while ori is probably going to want (probably hybrid) penetration so janna would have the AP advantage even if both people built full utility.

I don't really like normals as a viability check, since theres too many people screwing around with champs/roles they're unfamiliar with, and so you don't necessarily get punished for things you would when up against people on their main champs in their main roles as in ranked. Ori sup is probably ok though if you're good at ori, I just don't think it's Janna tier. (Also, you generally want dozens if not hundreds of games if you want to lean on statistics for a point, 7 and 3 games respectively isn't really any more than anecdotal.)

Handy Sandy 1 votes

While orianna has pretty much the strongest shield in the game, she doesn't have Janna's passive. Orianna's movement speed boost also works on minions, but Janna has way better peel. Orianna is also lacking a reliable source of hard cc.

notice me Sin pi1 votes

"situationally" the better janna

Arkilusal1 votes

I think the main thing might be that Orianna tends to be seen as a 'higher-skill-cap' champion-she's harder to use because of having to play around positioning that ball of hers depending on what you wish to do with it-whether that's on an ally to shield them, throwing it at an enemy to damage/combine with shockwave and or distortion to peel/chase.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

No hard CC before lvl 6, and then only the ult doesn't sound too great to me.

notice me Sin pi1 votes

to be fair Soraka doesnt have a hard CC (unless u count her E as hard cc, which i find most adc players disagree with) either but is still considered viable

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=SAO T1 Yui,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e5vpFYIj,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-12-22T01:16:40.735+0000)

to be fair Soraka doesnt have a hard CC (unless u count her E as hard cc, which i find most adc players disagree with) either but is still considered viable

That's because Raka is a lane bully.

x R U K A x1 votes

I've actually played against an Orianna support as Janna, and in the end the Orianna lost. While Orianna does a lot of poke damage early game, as Janna I maxed my shield first and in the end I shielded for more damage than she could deal. Also, besides her ultimate, Orianna lacked any hard CC unless you count her W. Orianna's ball is also easily avoidable as long as you stay alert of where it is. In the end Janna was just a better support. Scaling into late game, without any big AP items Orianna was useless because real support items don't really build well on her.

Now I'm not saying Orianna support is bad, I'm just saying it's not good against Janna. I myself have played Orianna support and in general it doesn't work well against most supports. I did find, however, that it is slightly good against Zyra because Orianna's ball can go through her plants.

notice me Sin pi1 votes

{quoted}

I did find, however, that it is slightly good against Zyra because Orianna's ball can go through her plants.

so "situationally" better Janna confirmed (as the title says)?

x R U K A x1 votes

Only by the strictest definition of situationally.

DoktorKaiser1 votes

As an Ori main since season 1 with over 4000 games on her - no it cant fucking work, please stop trying.

notice me Sin pi1 votes

makes me wanna try it out even more than what i intended----idk about ur elo but I will actually make it work in my elo(silver) in ranked when i have time to do so

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