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Why doesn't root effect stops a dashing champion?

JuiceBoxP··33 votes·12,702 views

It makes no sense. A lee sin activating his q the second time cannot be stopped by a root, nor can a dashing tryndamere, basically every dash cannot be stopped.

They get rooted only when they finish the dash and when they're ontop of you.

This mechanic allows to basically ignore root abilities and go straight through them to get ontop of enemy champions.

Once you're already ontop of the enemy you dashed to, you're in melee range and probably has already killed your target squishy champion who has a root ability.

So why is this a thing? Basically unrewarding to hit champion with a root during their dash because it doesn't affect them.

At certain angles, predicting those dashes can be extremely hard (e.g trying to save your teammate instead of yourself) and basically not rewarding at all.

EDIT:

Some thoughts i had about root effect when replying to comments:

When i imagine a root effect happening in an imaginary world i think of it like this:

vines pop out of the ground entangling your feet and basically connecting you physically to the ground, denying all movement.

Clearly, the vines move with you in this imaginary world.. and that's why i think it should change.

52 Comments

Boatwhistle24 votes

A lot of stupid interactions are in the game that make no sense. Seeing a melee kill someone with an auto after they flash is infuriating to me especially.

D3m37r17 votes

Autos are like point and click skills. Once the animation starts, distance doesn't matter.

JuiceBoxP3 votes

That is not true. Animation cancel is a thing with autos and you can cancel the auto intentionally/unintentionally when your target moves out of range or when you move.

Sometimes you flash away from a melee champion and after you flashed you are clearly out of range and you still get hit. It's not supposed to work like this.

It happened to me a lot that enemiea flashed away during a ranged AA and the attack did not complete, it got canceled.

LTK KoRo17 votes

he should specify this a bit. Once animation reaches some point it's unstoppable by range differences. Imagine it working differently. Melees wouldn't be able to aa anything running since enemy would leave their 125 melee range before the animation finishes.

Current aa formula is fine, it could use some clarity, but mechanics are fine and consistent.

yingwhy2 votes

Do you know how utterly bullshit it would be if a champion had to remain in your attack range the entire time? Melee champions would become unplayable vs ranged matchups because they would literally just walk away from trades. Yeah it doesn't look great but there's really not an alternative

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Solution: Add an animation for each melee champion of them throwing their weapon at you and it bouncing back if you leave melee range.

Let me see a Nasus just YEET a 1.4k damage cane at someone and it bounce off their skull and back to him.

3TWarrior1 votes

they could make a joke skin about it too XD Master Nasus!

Chembaron Yamada7 votes

Well, some actually do. Like Jinx E for example.

Warlord Rhinark6 votes

I mean, the Grounding effect should really be expanded to include more things.

deadlychuck2 votes

It's literally the only CC in the game that punishes mobile champions more than immobile champions

VoidStaresBack5 votes

There are a few non-knockback CCs that explicitly do stop dashes (Veigar cage, Jinx chompers, Ashe Arrow, Viktor's Gravity Well, Malzahar Ult, and Poppy "no dashing" zone), but for the most part immobilizing CCs will not stop dashes. Whether or not it's a good thing is up for debate, but they are balanced around that fact.

JuiceBoxP4 votes

Some of the abilities you mentioned are abilities that stun, not root.

Stuns do stop champions mid dash.

Edit: i am writing this out of experiences i had. since i haven't played all the champions, there appears be types of stuns that don't stop dashes, as people who replied to this comment said.

scratch this comment... it is incorrect.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

No they dont actually.

Sucction8 votes

{quoted}

Some of the abilities you mentioned are abilities that stun, not root.

Stuns do stop champions mid dash.

Stuns do not stop champions mid-dash. Only a few special cases, plus knockbacks/ups can interrupt dashes

Illabethe1 votes

The only stuns that do not stop a dash are dashes that are accompanied by "Unstoppable" Status..... ie..... Darius's R..... I can't think of many none unstoppable dashes that stuns do not stop....

Anu3isII1 votes

Stuns don't stop dashes. Take Tristana as an example, her dash can be interrupted, but not necessarily by stuns.

Knock-ups/backs are the most common ways to stop dashes: Darius E, Thresh E, Blitz Q and E. They tend to have a mini-stun effect, but that isn't the element that stops the dashes.

Illabethe2 votes

Actually only Knock-DOWNS stop dashes, or things with the Disarm status, or Disrupt status, or specially designed skills like Poppy's W.

Knockups do not stop dashes. However, there are skills which contest dash status, depending on the order of cast. Rocket Jump for example will override a knockup if she casts it after the Knockup is cast but before it executes the debuff.

The result of a Knockup to a dash is that the target will generally get Knocked up at their dash location, not where they WERE.

Darius E/Thres/Blitz are not considered Knockups/backs. They are considered "Movement Abilities" as a status, that is unique to itself.

Anu3isII1 votes

Based on wikia, Darius/Thresh/Blitz E are abilities that apply airborne status effect, which are knock-ups or knock-backs.

And all Knock-ups/backs do stop dashes, it matters when it catches the target.

I brought Tristana because she is bringing this controversial mechanic: if she is CCed during her W casting time, her dash will override the CC. Knock-downs are no exception, Trist can jump when Malzahar Ults.

However if she is Knock-uped/down/back during her actual dash, it will be cancelled on spot.

Sucction1 votes

{quoted}

The only stuns that do not stop a dash are dashes that are accompanied by "Unstoppable" Status..... ie..... Darius's R..... I can't think of many none unstoppable dashes that stuns do not stop....

Untrue. Stuns do not interrupt dashes, excepting Yasuo's E, and a few rare abilities like Viktor W and Veigar E.

A regular stun like Annie's or Riven's will not interrupt any already-active movement ability, not counting Yasuo's E which is a special case.

Rhai2 votes

{quoted}

Some of the abilities you mentioned are abilities that stun, not root.

Stuns do stop champions mid dash.

Edit: i am writing this out of experiences i had. since i haven't played all the champions, there appears be types of stuns that don't stop dashes, as people who replied to this comment said.

"Knockdown only affects units that are Airborne or are performing a dash. A unit that is knocked down is placed on the ground. Knockdown will not trigger Yasuo's Last Breath. Champions with knockdown: Ashe R, Malzahar R, Poppy W, Veigar E, Viktor W, Jinx E."

So basically you want roots to have the "Knockdown" effect.

JuiceBoxP1 votes

Guess so.

deadlychuck1 votes

I think you mean, they balance in spite of that fact

Autrah Fang4 votes

Rakan cries in a corner, as one of the only champions whose dashes are stopped completely by roots :( Whenever I play him against something like Zyra or Morgana, I'm always thinking "why is he stopped by roots?? why aren't other peoples' dashes interrupted by roots?!" and now they reduced his dash speed, so it's even easier to interrupt him... feelsbadman [zombie-nunu-tears]

Salron3 votes

{quoted} Clearly, the vines move with you in this imaginary world.. and that's why i think it should change.

And you can ignite Brand, how is this a good argument?

Koiyaki2 votes

unless specifically said as unstoppable, like sion ult and vi ult, nearly every dash can be stopped mid dash. even things like thresh lantern can be interrupted mid travel. it just requires timing and skill

Boatwhistle6 votes

accept when you see someone move 500+ units with the root encompassing them the whole way... probably just buggy spaghetti code when it happens but it still happens.

Dorans Pants2 votes

because god forbid if there was a counter to excessive mobility.

deadlychuck1 votes

I mean, they already coded that effect it's called grounded. Yet for some reason they decided to only attach it to slows and only put it on like 2 aoe abilities rather than having any instances of it acting as a kind of "mobility silence"

Nuparu1 votes

I mean, it's quite good on the champions it's on. Cass and Singed both use it quite well.

deadlychuck1 votes

Not saying it isn't, only that there's no reason that it MUST be attached to a slow or be an AoE effect.

When it's attached to a slow, the slow still impacts the immobile champion more, because the moment a champion with a dash or blink leaves the grounded zone, they can use it to quickly regain lost ground, while champions without it have no way to make up for the lost ground from the slow. Debuffs and slow free wider zones that provide the grounded effect are needed to help balance out the excessive mobility.

Mael Jade1 votes

Ground work: You can stop every single form of movement with a knockup or lock the enemy out of using it through grounding them before dashing. Outside of that the number of a) dashes that do get stopped is very limited (only Yasuo coming to mind) and b) the number of abilities that are not a knockup that stop movement is very limited too (Veigar and Jinx E). Some things are just timing (Ekko dashing in the second hit by a root? He's rooted where his dash (not blink) stopped) and something people can play around but I agree, even a normal root should completely stop enemies from doing any kind of movement instanly. Then you could also make certain dashes stronger by allowing them to finish it before it goes into effect)

JuiceBoxP1 votes

{quoted}

even a normal root should completely stop enemies from doing any kind of movement instanly.

When i imagine a root effect happening in an imaginary world i think of it like this:

vines pop out of the ground entangling your feet and basically connecting you physically to the ground, denying all movement. Clearly, that's not how it works in this imaginary world... Should be looked at by riot IMO.

flibitydoo1 votes

Rakan's W also can be halted by getting snared mid dash

even crazier is if it happens before the knockup component, then the knockup part won't even happen

basically a good morgana ruins rakan

deadlychuck1 votes

Tristana

IShowerWithUrDad1 votes

{quoted}

Ground work: You can stop every single form of movement with a knockup or lock the enemy out of using it through grounding them before dashing. Outside of that the number of a) dashes that do get stopped is very limited (only Yasuo coming to mind) and b) the number of abilities that are not a knockup that stop movement is very limited too (Veigar and Jinx E). Some things are just timing (Ekko dashing in the second hit by a root? He's rooted where his dash (not blink) stopped) and something people can play around but I agree, even a normal root should completely stop enemies from doing any kind of movement instanly. Then you could also make certain dashes stronger by allowing them to finish it before it goes into effect)

Maybe target dashes be the weaker ones, that gets knocked down by roots. Meanwhile, other dashes wouldn’t get knocked down by roots.

The thigh guy1 votes

Riot would have to re code every root in the game. And idk if I trust them after the last incident with morgana and Ezreal. >.>

underscores2221 votes

Roots in general will not stop movement - specific abilities that say they stop dashes will, but the only root I can think of with that ability is Jinx's chompers. As noted elsewhere, veigar stun also stops dashes as a special part of the ability.

Anything that forces movement will also stop dashes because a "new" movement command has essentially been issued. This leads to some really strange interactions.

As far as I know, only one champion dash ability specifically states that it is stopped by all root abilities, and that is Yasou's E. It almost never comes up because it is pretty hard to land root CC on him while he's dashing, but it is a thing. I saw someone mention Rakan in here, but I have no idea about him (his AoE dash/knockup thing has really strange interactions with CC)

MessyStuff1 votes

{quoted}

As noted elsewhere, veigar stun also stops dashes as a special part of the ability.

From what I'm seeing Veigar's E doesn't stop dashes anymore. They dash through it and then they are stunned. Pyke's E consistently does this(from my experience) and every single other dash isn't stopped anymore.

nelogis1 votes

specific abilities

Abilities with the effect "knock down" stop dashes mid-dash the only abilities that have this effect is Veigar stun and Jinx chompers

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Because that's a knock-ups job.

JarodDempsey1 votes

lol you think thats bad how about the coding that lets stuff like tristana jump happen regardless of her being rooted before leaving the ground.

JuiceBoxP1 votes

played against ezreal as blitzcrank recently? he just clicks e before your q and he blinks out when caught

JarodDempsey1 votes

{quoted}

played against ezreal as blitzcrank recently? he just clicks e before your q and he blinks out when caught

yeah ezreal does the same thing, aside from pulls tristanas is worse since her jump is longer and takes longer so by the time she lands in relative safety shes usually uncc'd

Sona Ping1 votes

Because that's the way the game works. Games are made to have a set of mechanics and they are given to players to use, with a presentation that is there as shorthand for these mechanics.

I get how that sounds but the objection on the grounds of saying it makes no sense is in the territory of

When i imagine a root effect happening in an imaginary world i think of it like this: "vines pop out of the ground entangling your feet and basically connecting you physically to the ground, denying all movement."

"Why can you only shoot at targets a few feet away?" "It doesn't make sense that a sniper who has been firing hundreds of rounds multiple times per second with perfect accuracy will only decide to aim their rifle at something further only once every few minutes." "why is it a thing that some guy can knock an extra-dimensional monstrosity the size of a building into the air with just a spear but he doesn't easily kill a guy in a leather jacket with the same one?"

JuiceBoxP1 votes

Because that's the way the game works.

Just because that's the way it works, doesn't mean that's the way it should work... When you threw a lux Q and tryndamere dashed directly through it just to get ontop of you, and he gets that barrier around him, i mean you clearly see it encasing him, yet, he still moved on top of you and killed you but you still hit that Q...

Sona Ping1 votes

{quoted}

Just because that's the way it works, doesn't mean that's the way it should work... When you threw a lux Q and tryndamere dashed directly through it just to get ontop of you, and he gets that barrier around him, i mean you clearly see it encasing him, yet, he still moved on top of you and killed you but you still hit that Q...

Well, that's a different argument from what you said at the top. For this one:

I'm a Lux player. I move to contest Tryndamere and this happens. This means quite a few things already but among them, it means that I have moved for this to happen. Despite my Lux being that champion with those tools and knowing it's Tryndamere with his, I have positioned that way. I've then moved not in range for my abilities but in range for this to occur. It means that he has this scenario and made choices for it to occur or that I've then made further mistakes so he didn't need to. It means that I have messed up multiple times to get to this point and so I deserve to take damage for that. If that damage also means I get taken down, that just makes it another mistake of mine.

And I would still say to keep it this way because it's a better, richer, more skill expressive experience and my misplay under it doesn't change that.

JuiceBoxP1 votes

Okay, then if you want to keep it this way, this must be written in the description. "This ability does not stop a dashing tryndamere"... Or just something less specific.

All it says is roots the target for 2 seconds, but doesn't do what it says. Which make me think maybe it wasn't intended to work this way, and that it is a bug.

A completely new player cannot know this interaction happens, and could easily be confused because he doesn't understand why he died when he succefully hit a root ability on a certain champion and said champion kept moving

You catch my drift?

Features and mechanics in the game must be clear, common knowledge, written openly in the game and work consistently because otherwise they are not mechanics. They are bugs.

Sona Ping1 votes

{quoted}

Okay, then if you want to keep it this way, this must be written in the description. "This ability does not stop a dashing tryndamere"... Or just something less specific.

All it says is roots the target for 2 seconds, but doesn't do what it says. Which make me think maybe it wasn't intended to work this way, and that it is a bug.

A completely new player cannot know this interaction happens, and could easily be confused because he doesn't understand why he died when he succefully hit a root ability on a certain champion and said champion kept moving

There is an issue where there is no area to look up CC categories. But that is all that means; it does not mean there is anything wrong with the systems it would describe.

"A completely new player wouldn't know how it works. He could be confused." He is not supposed to! He's new, it comes with the territory of being new to something. And a hypothetical person's possible, temporary uncertainty is not something disastrous to be avoided at whatever cost it. If I was to pick up a new game like Apex or whatever it was, I would be a new player and I would not know how anything worked. I would not instantly know all about the game and be among the best. I am not supposed and there's not any expectation that I should. So that certainly means there's no reason to change anything to try and (unsuccessfully) make that non-existent expectation happen for anyone.

"It doesn't do what it says. It makes me think that it is a bug." It does do that. It isn't bugged, CC works this way, with these rules. If there's a presumption and then when the occasion happens, it's demonstrated to be wrong because the system doesn't work that way... That isn't evidence the system was wrong about how it works. As a new player, my job would be to look at how thing work and say "Oh, I see it works that way." If there's an EMP Grenade in the game and it goes through the Shield Array item I used, I am going to understand that's how that works. It doesn't mean that there's something wrong, and it doesn't mean the game is wrong for not matching incorrect expectations. An idea that I wouldn't assume.

JuiceBoxP1 votes

Sorry, but I diasgree with your point of view. Which is fine, honestly. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. At the end the majority decides.

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