Sona will never be good in Masters+ and the simple reason why

RedCyclone·Mar 27, 2017·22 votes·4,625 views

She is a selfish support

Her powerspikes are at 6/11/16 Her gold spending is higher then all the supports in the game Her ability to save teammates is the worst in the game out of supports

Masters+ support is all about making a lot of use out of getting very little, the more gold and xp you lose the more the ADC gets so Sona will never be a sane choice to pick unless you can convince your team that you can do wonderful things with Sona, but that shit just aint happening.

Sona right now is closer to APC then support, all she is missing is some waveclear and she would be good to go carrying from mid (not saying they should, just saying that's her current position)

48 Comments

draecinaMar 28, 20179 votes

Funny coincidence, I'm watching dyrus and Tobias fate on stream right now saying how good sona is especially out of laning phase. Their reasons are the spam heals and the ult. Not saying you're wrong just mentioning it

RedCycloneMar 28, 20172 votes

Spam heals comes from the levels though Also comes from the passive playstyle of being Soraka lite early and maxing your W first

A little PeepoMar 28, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Funny coincidence, I'm watching dyrus and Tobias fate on stream right now saying how good sona is especially out of laning phase. Their reasons are the spam heals and the ult. Not saying you're wrong just mentioning it

Sona is doing relatively well right now because of the sync she has with ardent censor. She can literally have ardent censor up 100% of the time with full cdr late game. But that doesn't change the fact that her play style is bland and boring.

AhristocatsMar 27, 20178 votes

A THREAD OF BOARD CARING ABOUT SONA IN MASTER TIER AND ABOVE?

am i dreaming?

{quoted}

Her powerspikes are at 6/11/16

Indeed, let me remind you that riot changed the way lulu's passive works so she gets faster the damage of the passive instead of relying on lvls

i asked for sona to have 10% cdr at lvl 6, then X% cdr each lvl to get 40% cdr at lvl 16 but i didn't get any replies from Riot

{quoted}

Her gold spending is higher then all the supports in the game

again true all her basic numbers are garbage forcing her to buy AP instead of cdr+utility items, so she needs AP to compensate her low numbers

{quoted}

Her ability to save teammates is the worst in the game out of supports

just like her ability to kill enemies

{quoted}

Sona right now is closer to APC then support, all she is missing is some waveclear and she would be good to go carrying from mid (not saying they should, just saying that's her current position)

again right, the only challenger sona player is AWildAPSona playing her midlane Best Dota 2 Sona ragequitted league, i don't know any high elo sona players anymore

let me add fiew things that you didn't put (but you couldn't really know since you don't play in master)

lack of CC before lvl 6 this is important because the amount of botlane ganks have never been so high

terrible laning phase presence against experienced people, if they extend trades you're done for nothing else to say

way too easy to kill in early game compared to any enchenters, 325 base ms (E isn't taken until at least lvl 7) not tanky enough, long cooldown low defense spell+no cc before lvl 6, if you're against an agressive lane the game is lost unless your top/mid/sup carries the botlane _ in any way Sona can't be buffed for master tier without breaking lower elo_ i wish good luck to every Sona mains, i'm just going to spam her in normal games and avoid playing her in ranked still hoping for riot to rework her

https://i.gyazo.com/5158ebcfe0b82da472852cd9dd69e34e.png lul

RedCycloneMar 27, 20172 votes

Most stuff I agree with

No idea if you implied that Sona sucks at killing people or that she is the best support for it (who isn't just a midlaner gone support) , I will certainly say that I have no problem killing people as Sona

Experienced players vs Sona is very much a nightmare, I really hate the duo bot vs me and my autofilled ADC nothing can be done in these situations in botlane and I find it better to just bolster mid and top

I find that Sona's frailty is kinda her identity at this point and I also feel this is the balancing aspect of her because of how simple she is, she is brittle to up her difficulty, I get around this problem on my AP Sona by running stormraiders (been running it on her since keystones were introduced, never looked back) since proccing it means they can't trade and you can make skillshots invalid

I have been called a troll, noob, useless, reported, the lot due to my off meta method of playing Sona, honestly all those comments really make me do is show them up by getting most damage to enemy champs on the team

Edge of DaybreakMar 28, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dxzo6M4E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-03-27T21:49:05.172+0000)

A THREAD OF BOARD CARING ABOUT SONA IN MASTER TIER AND ABOVE?

am i dreaming?

It's RedCyclone though it's not a shocking thing. Now if this was RedMercy I'd shit myself.

RedCycloneMar 28, 20172 votes

Wow way to make a guy feel worthless :(

Edge of DaybreakMar 28, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Wow way to make a guy feel worthless :(

You did used to post a lot of sona threads. It's not surprising to see you posting about sona didn't mean anything negative by it.

RedCycloneMar 28, 20172 votes

Twas but a jest

I honestly don't really have that much of a problem with Sona atm (More irrtated by the influx of magic resist that also gives damage), obviously I am not masters+ and can chew a game up with a mean Sona, however i do get a bunch of people who see me as that "Singed support" player because I run StormSurge

xxxDogmanxxxMar 28, 20171 votes

Wait, I thought you mained Darius?

AhristocatsMar 28, 20176 votes

how is that related to what i said?

i'm a support main, i love the support role because of how op it is in high elo Sona is my favorite champion in this game, each champion has a thematic and no other thematic attracts me than music. Her voice is also IMO the best voice in league which just enhance the fact that she seems quiet i just can't play sona in high elo

gameplay wise darius is my favorite, no other gameplay are on his level to me, and Sona's gameplay has nothing interesting beside bursting people with a lot of ap

xxxDogmanxxxMar 28, 20171 votes

I was reacting to that screenshot of your chat. You said you mained Sona.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 28, 20171 votes

i'm a support main, i love the support role because of how op it is in high elo

This... U'll loose many on this XD.

Emmy Cha0sMar 29, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dxzo6M4E,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2017-03-28T12:08:04.004+0000)

Her voice is also IMO the best voice in league which just enhance the fact that she seems quiet i just can't play sona in high elo

She also voices Janna as well, but not Forecaster Janna:

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/Erin-Fitzgerald/

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 28, 20171 votes

again right, the only challenger sona player is AWildAPSona playing her midlane

Its okay to have just one person chall on u pick IMO...

Best Dota 2 Sona ragequitted league, i don't know any high elo sona players anymore

https://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=snu301 is it high enough ?

let me add fiew things that you didn't put (but you couldn't really know since you don't play in master) lack of CC before lvl 6 this is important because the amount of botlane ganks have never been so high

agree with u... but no need to be master to understand this... i think

in any way Sona can't be buffed for master tier without breaking lower elo

Yeah... She's at 53% wr for 6% pr on our server. They'll need to change her kit if they want to buff her. could be good, her thematic is cooler than her gameplay

AhristocatsMar 28, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dxzo6M4E,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2017-03-28T14:14:51.393+0000)

Its okay to have just one person chall on u pick IMO...

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=MRMAKELOLSUKD1CK

weird, he dropped to d1

[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dxzo6M4E,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2017-03-28T14:14:51.393+0000)

https://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=snu301 is it high enough ?

he used to be master tier before and streamed, you can search it on google, OR on old forum as he posted a lot of threads on sona and fearless just straight up ignored him

[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dxzo6M4E,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2017-03-28T14:14:51.393+0000)

Yeah... She's at 53% wr for 6% pr on our server. They'll need to change her kit if they want to buff her. could be good, her thematic is cooler than her gameplay

thank you for understanding this

Zone of EndlessMar 28, 20176 votes

I don't even enjoy playing her in normal with my friend anymore. The stat on W especially is just trash but for some reason cost shit ton of mana.

chipndip1Mar 28, 20171 votes

5 man shield potentially. So multiply that by 5 and that's the possible power of that shield, then add the heal's power by up to 2. The issue is that Sona has room to be horribly ridiculous numbers-wise, so they gimp her hard in other ways to compensate. I think we're about tired of this method, though. Doesn't feel good to play.

Emmy Cha0sMar 28, 20175 votes

Those other ways being:

400-range spells. No other support in the game has a spell with less than 500 range(of which there is only 1 of, all others are 550+,) yet Sona has THREE at 400.
1.5 seconds of duration on her shield, Thresh' shield is 4 seconds and literally every other support shield in the game is over thrice Sona's duration.
As already mentioned, the most expensive mana cost in the game for any shield or heal.

NineTailedMysticMar 28, 20172 votes

As already mentioned, the most expensive mana cost in the game for any shield or heal.

Taric.

Sona W: 80 - 100 mana cost

Taric Q: 60-140 mana cost.

Emmy Cha0sMar 29, 20173 votes

What point are you trying to make? That I'm correct? Last I checked, EIGHTY is a larger number than SIXTY.

NineTailedMysticMar 29, 20171 votes

That Taric's rank 3 Q costs the same as Sona's rank 5. Ranks 4/5 are more expensive.

Yuzuki YukarinMar 29, 20171 votes

X being greater than Y doesn't make Z greater than W. You're comparing apples and rotten tomatoes. Sona's heal is still more experience early WHEN A SUPPORT IS SUPPOSED TO BE AT THEIR STRONGEST, thus Sona's heal is more expensive when it matters most(or rather when it just plain matters at all.)

NineTailedMysticMar 29, 20171 votes

He said the most expensive mana cost in the game for a heal or shield. He's wrong, because as soon as Taric ranks Q to 3, her heal is equal and cheaper ranks 4/5.

There was no timeframe given. You're just looking for problems to nitpick.

Thanks for the downvotes bud.

EedatMar 27, 20175 votes

More like her kit in general isn't good. The only way she could be viable is if they artificially made her strong but buffing her numbers. That would never happen because it would make her insanely broken in low ELO.

Unless we're taking about a full scale rework in which case it's not even the same champion anymore really

ZT XperimentorMar 28, 20174 votes

She wasn't as selfish before her rework ruined her, back when she actually had auras.

Sexy Jack RabbitMar 28, 20172 votes

Her boobs weigh her down THEY"RE TOO POWERFUL SHE NEEDS THE GOLD FOR ENHANCEMENTS

SUPERMOVAMar 28, 20172 votes

Pretty sure garen has a more flawwed kit in master+ than sona, I'm pretty sure if some dedicated sona only player existed they could achieve master as she has a kit that can be useful unlike garen

Emmy Cha0sMar 29, 20173 votes

No, Sona did/does have dedicated players. Patch 4.13 is the reason they CANNOT achieve master anymore. Sona is no more viable than Garen, if anything she's LESS viable.

sobi999Mar 28, 20172 votes

I don't think all supports are viable at master+ so i don't see the exception for sona. Nonetheless, sona is still a better support in most elos than her other counterpart traditional supp's. I mean if the reasoning to lets say buff sona was for higher elo, where she is not viable, then the same reasoning should be applied to other supp that are also not viable at higher elos. Usually balance resolves around broken champs being nerfed or very rarely very weak champs getting buffed.

xxxDogmanxxxMar 28, 20172 votes

I mean, she's not the absolute BEST support, but isn't Sona like #6 or something? I mean, the only supports I'd say are undoubtedly better in Master+ this patch are Janna Blitzcrank Lulu Malzahar Soraka .

I'm definitely not in the best position to judge (I just got my ass demoted back to Diamond 1 last week in my main account), but I think Sona's fine in Master tier. She has pretty good poke in the early game, and her auras do a pretty good job keeping her ADC at a subtle advantageous position over the enemy ADC. Plus she has that big-ticket aoe ultimate which swings fights and ganks like a boss. Her kill pressure after level 6 is pretty enormous, on par with the other top-tier supports.

I'd be glad to have a Sona over some of the other "non-selfish" supports like Zilean Nami Thresh Braum .

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 28, 20172 votes

Sona will never be good in Masters+ and the simple reason why

And u are... aren't master Oo

https://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=snu301 Seems like he's good btw, Sona is in good spot atm

Sona right now is closer to APC then support, all she is missing is some waveclear and she would be good to go carrying from mid (not saying they should, just saying that's her current position)

yeah... like him u mean https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=1sdathim

RedCycloneMar 28, 20174 votes

One doesn't have to be in masters to know the patterns of supporting in higher ranks

Sona's kit obviously would be a net negative if anyone even touched her in LCS

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 28, 20171 votes

yeah... i agree.

I just look look at LCK... and i never see a Sona in S7 (if i recall).

Theiki KayleMar 28, 20171 votes

As long as Janna exists, she will always be one of the top picks in Master+, outperforming every other healing/peeling support.

Sexy Jack RabbitMar 28, 20172 votes

This guy totally gets it ^

As long as Soraka exists Sona will be underperforming at healing. As long as Nami exists Sona will be underperforming at Crowd Control. As long as Lulu exists Sona will be underperforming at Buffing and debuffing.

Sona's main issue isn't just Janna existing, it's that she simply doesn't excel anywhere in comparison to other enchanters (besides abusing Ardent Censer). She's always gonna be second pick unless she's broken by the numbers.

Bladerunner7777Mar 28, 20171 votes

Nami isn't a good example of "premier CC"

Nami is hardly the best at anything (other than laughing)

Sexy Jack RabbitMar 28, 20171 votes

Out of all the Enchanters Nami is hands down the best at pumping out, consistent and strong CC.

Her Q is a powerful stun, her E is 3 slows, and her ult is an AOE Knock-up.

Bladerunner7777Mar 29, 20171 votes

Just because Aatrox has a knockup on Q, it doesn't mean he has good CC (or reliable)

If you want to get technical:

Janna: 3 CCs

Nami: 4 if you count the knockup and slow on ult as two separate things

Sona: 3 if you count the Damage reduction debuff

Soraka: 2

Lulu: 4 CCs. The best one (polymorph) being point and click.

Bard: 3 individual CC abilities. One of them can stun or slow.

Zilean: 2

Karma: 2

Taric: 1

Just because it's technically possible to land a 5 man stun with Nami bubble (which never happens) doesn't mean Nami should be marketed as "The CC Enchanter". Nami's Q is not a reliable engage tool outside of laning phase and functions like a slightly-more-versatile Janna Q mid-lategame. Tidecaller's Blessing's slow is neglible CC and only acts a temporary redbuff (which isn't bad, it's just not that special). Which leaves Nami's ult which is occasionally good at engaging if you're using it from out of sight of the enemy. It's sometimes good at engage, follow-up, or disengage depending on the situation.

Nami isn't the best at anything, she's just pretty good at everything. If anything, she might be one of the best laning phase "enchanters" because her abilities are two-sided and there are more opportunities to use both sides of the coin in a laning phase scenario (ie her W poking and healing at the same time).

AhristocatsMar 28, 20175 votes

and yet lulu is more banned/picked than janna?

how comes janna isn't outperforming every healing/peeling supports?

i agree that enchenters are too similar, but this isn't because of janna. She has her unique niche (disengage) which means if someone else is viable (lulu) she won't replace them however between other enchenters there are way too much similarities (sona lulu nami karma) which is why we need an enchenter rework

Maximum MordeMar 28, 20175 votes

Karma is significantly different from Sona, Nami, and Lulu imo. Well, they kinda all have their own niche to me, except Sona and Nami.

Nami is Sona 2.0, just with higher skill requirement.

Karma is the damage dealer of the bunch.

Lulu is the stronger disengager.

Sona is... something. Used to be a poke support till they gutted Q and Powerchord, but she's so simple mechanically to play that she stays viable for the most part thanks to itemization. Just uninteresting.

Bladerunner7777Mar 28, 20173 votes

which is why we need an enchenter rework

Uh, no

Support is still one of the most diverse roles

AhristocatsMar 28, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Which is why we need an **enchenter ** rework

_**Support ** _ is still one of the most diverse roles

The Yetii RiderMar 28, 20171 votes

Thanks for the post. Masters+ makes up about 10,000 people worldwide or something. That's not even remotely important to the 16 million strong League community.

Bladerunner7777Mar 28, 20171 votes

Making a primarily point-and-click/auto targetting champion good in Masters is your first mistake.

nachocheeseeeeeMar 29, 20171 votes

So was Sona initially intended to be the damage support before players realize midlane mages like Morgana, Brand, Zyra, Lux, and Velkoz could support? I really don't see anything other than that that other supports don't do better than sona.

It Is I EmotoApr 3, 20171 votes

oh boy I recall how i used to keep saying that sona needs a rework and she still needs one.. essentially she's in a decent spot right now judging her winrate, but that's only because she has literally one of the best ultimates in her kit, but.. that's sorta it.