A way to balance Gragas

The Cane Master··3 votes·652 views
Patch 7.2 Notes

Yet again, Riot buffed a meta champion, realized it was strong even before the buff and decided to revert it. First it was Zed's base attack speed, now it's Gnar and Gragas. Earlier this season, in 7.2. patch Riot buffed Gragas' passive and base armor) in order to match then op Rengar, Lee Sin and Kha Zix. What they failed to realize is that assassins work only when their numbers are right, while CC champs always work due to more and more CC heavy champs available (please stop making these, CC creep is abundantly high). What ended up happening were nerfs to these ad assassins while Gragas was already the undisputed king of jungle in terms of not dealing with op champs (not to say perfect balance as Gragas himself has op design). NowRiot are reverting armor buff to Gragas (rightfully so) only to realize the buff wasn't needed in the first place i.e. you had issues with other op jungle champs.

My advice is to start looking at fundamentals, that is why is something not strong, and if the state of the champion is bad due to other champs being op, or the champ itself underpowered. When the buffs to Gnar and Gragas are reverted. I hope they start balancing in this manner. Not only that, Gragas himself has the most overloaded kit in the game - passive HP regen, ranged AOE 2 sec slow, AOE aa, E dash that is AOE knockup as well as escape, 1000 range AOE pull+push on R (the single strongest spell in the game). Galio comes close to this kit, but that's it, all other have way less reliability and versatility in their kits. That being said, if Galio cannot dash over wall (and he has wings), there is no way the fattest champion in all Runeterra should be able to do so. Once you make this kind of change, i.e. a nerf to Gragas' utility, only then are you going to solve his undisputed ruledom over jungle.

10 Comments

King of Demons2 votes

By simply fixing his E hitbox a HUGE amount of power will be taken away from him already.

Wet Dryman1 votes

Number of tools doesn't make champion automatically broken, numbers associated with the tools might make them and how they interact with each other. That being said I think that Gragas should get his Q CC removed and replaced with utility other than CC, E CC replaced with slow because they can't really work with his kit unless his smoothness get seriously touched (and that wouldn't feel logical with the nature and themes of his). And it would actually make him an AP Fighter he was supposed to be.

There's nothing wrong with Fatty's ult currently, it is one of the most unique, high counterplay, game changing for both sides, unreliable and range agnostic ultimates in the game, price for the power is has is adequate as it's really hard to do what you aim to do and even then enemy has still multiple ways to make it less effective/dodge or plain up use it to their own advantage.

That being said, if Galio cannot dash over wall (and he has wings), there is no way the fattest champion in all Runeterra should be able to do so.

Balance=/=real world logic dude, why Garen uses no mana when he summons big-ass magic sword from the sky while GP uses mana to shoot goddamn pistol? And Graggy is acrofatic champion sooo...

The Cane Master1 votes

While I do agree with you, I think that Gragas being unable to dash over walls makes balance sense firstly, real world wise comes secondary.

Wet Dryman1 votes

Well if Riot seriously aims at making Gragas less attractive as a Tank there is no reason for him to lose his mobility, it's not uncommon for Fighters to have wall ignoring dashes and given that any minion, monster, champion can block it and nullify his mobility by that (in comparison to J4's collision agnostic dash) it's fair for him to have it.

The Cane Master1 votes

It'd be fair to Gragas if he couldn't dash over walls.

Wet Dryman1 votes

Because what? Why is it fair for Gragas to lose his dashing over wall when his competition in his current class (Zac, Sejuani, Shen) and class that he is aimed to be part of (Lee Sin, Vi, Kayn, Rek'Sai, J4, Camille, Aatrox, Renekton) can?

The Cane Master1 votes

It is fair because his kit is by far the strongest one in the game- passive HP regen, ranged AOE 2 sec slow, AOE aa, E dash that is AOE knockup as well as escape, 1000 range AOE pull+push on R (the single strongest spell in the game). Added to that, he has great numbers (base stats): dmg, tankiness, damage reduction on W. No other champion has this much CC along with tanky base stats.

Wet Dryman1 votes

This is basic "list kit of a champion" not a proper argument. As you know already Riot will remove E Flash interaction and reduce his E AoE and these things are the reason why Gragas is so strong as a Tank, outside of these things he is nothing special and is outclassed by every other Tank. Why? Because he wasn't meant to be Tank in the first place and other Tanks have either more CC (Zac, Maokai, Sejuani, Nautilus) that is also much more reliable than his or offer utility (Amumu with his passive and has much more reliable ultimate due to no delays, Malphite with his AoE AS reduction) or plain up better defensive steroids (Rammus W that lasts 6 seconds and reflects damage, Malphite's W with perma 35% bonus to armor, Sejuani with her anti burst and anti slow passive that lasts up to 3 seconds). There is no point in reducing his mobility if they remove things he is valued for and outside of he is outclassed by everything else, doing so is just further weakening the champion that will be weak as hell.

If they will further change him to be AP Fighter (and they will because Grag's winrate will go down heavily) there is also no reason at all for him to lose that ability because Fighters outside of Juggernaut subclass are mobile by design.

The Cane Master1 votes

If they will further change him to be AP Fighter (and they will because Grag's winrate will go down heavily) there is also no reason at all for him to lose that ability because Fighters outside of Juggernaut subclass are mobile by design.

FYI Fighters that are not Juggernauts are Divers subclass.

Wet Dryman1 votes

Yeah I know how it's called but I think that name is dumb so I don't use it.

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