Since every physical on-hit applies life steal, why not magic on-hits too?

ArnoldSchwarzens·Jan 10, 2017·3 votes·2,475 views

Since life steal works on things like Cait's headshots and Vayne's tumble, I don't see why it wouldn't be the same with Kog's W.

28 Comments

KyrrionJan 10, 20173 votes

Define on-hit. Because by themselves, on-hit bonuses have never benefited from lifesteal - which is why BotRK explicityly calls out that it's an exception. Or are you talking about ability bonuses that modify a basic attack?

ArnoldSchwarzensJan 10, 20172 votes

Almost every physical on-hit effect, as defined here http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/On-hit_effect There are some exceptions though, like Udyr's Q.

KyrrionJan 10, 20173 votes

Yeah see, that's what I'm talking about. Things like Jarvan's passive and Aatrox's W are on-hits that don't apply lifesteal because they're actual on-hit effects and not simply AA modifiers. This is also why Muramana and Titanic Hydra don't apply lifesteal while Sheen does (it modifies base AD through activation). There isn't a consistent on-hit effect that provides lifesteal aside from BotRK - all of the ones that are listed are tied to an activated ability.

This is also why Poppy's Passive and Nidalee's Cougar Q apply lifesteal while doing magic damage. Those abilities modify the AA used.

The general rule is this: If it's an active ability and it modifies the damage of an auto attack, it'll lifesteal. If it's a passive effect (whether a permanent buff like Aatrox's W or a temporary one like Koggle's W) it's a secondary on-hit effect and won't lifesteal. I don't see why this needs to be changed.

Asayake 5150glowJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yeah see, that's what I'm talking about. Things like Jarvan's passive and Aatrox's W are on-hits that don't apply lifesteal because they're actual on-hit effects and not simply AA modifiers. This is also why Muramana and Titanic Hydra don't apply lifesteal while Sheen does (it modifies base AD through activation). There isn't a consistent on-hit effect that provides lifesteal aside from BotRK - all of the ones that are listed are tied to an activated ability.

This is also why Poppy's Passive and Nidalee's Cougar Q apply lifesteal while doing magic damage. Those abilities modify the AA used.

The general rule is this: If it's an active ability and it modifies the damage of an auto attack, it'll lifesteal. If it's a passive effect (whether a permanent buff like Aatrox's W or a temporary one like Koggle's W) it's a secondary on-hit effect and won't lifesteal. I don't see why this needs to be changed.

Aatrox W(extra damage) applies lifesteal :) Pretty sure it's not onhit though.

EndlessSorcererJan 10, 20173 votes

The autoattack itself applies lifesteal, but the bonus damage does not.

Asayake 5150glowJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The autoattack itself applies lifesteal, but the bonus damage does not.

You sure?

It's been a while since I played Aatrox, actually...

EndlessSorcererJan 10, 20171 votes

Pretty sure.

I double-checked the wiki before posting and it says the same thing.

Asayake 5150glowJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Pretty sure.

I double-checked the wiki before posting and it says the same thing.

Oh. I guess the amount of health it costs is just less than how much I vamp from the auto itself, then...

YalathanilJan 10, 20171 votes

item 3812 does "dealing physical dmg" work on physical on hit effects?

ArnoldSchwarzensJan 10, 20171 votes

Yes but so does lifesteal, so a BotRK or BT is almost always more worth it every time.

YalathanilJan 10, 20171 votes

Thx for the clarification. Now that I think of it it makes sense that Graves and Master Yi work well with deaths dance because of how much dmg they do outside of aa's

PrinceOfStormsJan 10, 20172 votes

Or why not just remove lifesteal and solve the problem completely?

ErockandrollJan 10, 20172 votes

I sure people will complain about it not synergizing with on hit builds or something, But hasn't anyone heard of Hextech Gunblade? It's an Omni Damage sustain option.

{quoted}

Or why not just remove lifesteal and solve the problem completely?

In my Legacy wisdom of about 3 years of evolving metas. I would probably say that Lifesteal helps insulate one against the poke and siege meta. If you had no life steal, any amount of poke (from say Ziggs) could easily put you out of commission on the team comp. Even if the damage wasn't enough to kill, you would still be left dangerously low, with no real way to recover. (Not good if your a glass cannon ADC) Secondly, if the ADC didn't have a way of sustaining on their own, enchanter supports would become dominant, more so than they are already now. Since they are able to cover up that significant weakness.

PrinceOfStormsJan 10, 20171 votes

You could say much the same thing about Spell Vamp, which got the axe.

SeaGodUrronuosJan 10, 20174 votes

That's the dumbest thing I've heard all day, or the week actually

NavyDiveaJan 10, 20172 votes

Because headshot and tumble are not an independent damage source, it's an empowered auto, not a on hit effect like wits-end or kogs W which adds a separate damage source.

venomous frostJan 10, 20171 votes

they are all on-hit effects,

so technically, they aren't a seperate damage source, one just happens to be magic damage and the other one happens to be physical

PupelJan 10, 20171 votes

Now this I like. I feel this is a solid case to be made

SeaGodUrronuosJan 10, 20171 votes

Yea let's add it to Veigar too xD

SeaGodUrronuosJan 10, 20171 votes

Lol no it would be way overpowered in bot lane

Meep ManJan 10, 20171 votes

Did you just respond to yourself?

SeaGodUrronuosJan 10, 20171 votes

No I just was too lazy too hit edit, and th op part of it was referring to log maw getting live steal not veigar

Asayake 5150glowJan 10, 20171 votes

[deleted]

YalathanilJan 10, 20171 votes

item 3812 applies 15% lifesteal from all physical dmg. If the on hit is physical dmg (not all are), then it should count toward the lifesteal

Asayake 5150glowJan 10, 20172 votes

{quoted}

applies 15% lifesteal from all physical dmg. If the on hit is physical dmg (not all are), then it should count toward the lifesteal

That's not lifesteal though, that's DD's unique passive.

EndlessSorcererJan 10, 20171 votes

Death's Dance isn't lifesteal.

It heals you for physical damage dealt (including ability usage) rather than just autoattacks.

EndlessSorcererJan 10, 20171 votes

Physical on-hit affects don't apply lifesteal. The only exception to this is Blade of the Ruined King (which states this in the description).

Modified autoattacks (i.e. Caitlyn's passive, Nasus' Q, etc) apply lifesteal, but they aren't on-hit effects.

RebonackJan 10, 20171 votes

Lifesteal doesn't work on OnHit effects. It does, however, work on empowered basic attacks. Which is kind of a fiddly distinction, but a distinction none the less.

There's nothing wrong with Kog getting no lifesteal from his W. That's what Gunblade is for. If anything, Kog could use a bump to his W AP ratio to make AP Kog slightly less of a dumpster fire.