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Why Don't People Surrender When A Game Turns One-Sided?

Forhonor321··6 votes·4,809 views

This has always bothered me for the longest time whenever I play a game, ranked or casual. If the enemy team essentially has a huge lead and map pressure on you that you can't really make a comeback from, why continue to force the rest of your team to play when they just want to stop? Every time this happens and a surrender fails I feel like I'm being kept hostage. I don't want to keep playing a game where the other team has us pushed to our base and we haven't taken any one of their towers. I don't want to go up against the lane that bullied my teammate for a huge lead that the other team camped them to make a huge push. I don't want to continue a game where the score is 20-5, 18 minutes in.

Don't start with the "oh but you can make a comeback, you just have to play smart and outplay them", it's not possible to do that when they constantly have us pushed in and have at least two or three full items than us. I get some people don't want to surrender and try and play it out, but for the rest of us we just want the game to end so we can jump into another one and hope it turns out better for us. As to quote from DBZ Abridged, "Sometimes you got to know when to hold'em and know when to fold'em, and right now it's folding time." Make what you will of this, upvote, downvote, I don't give a shit. I'm just trying to say my opinion on the matter because I'm starting to get fucking sick of it now.

33 Comments

MorganFreemanBot7 votes

If the Nexus isn't dead by 30 minutes, the game can be turned.

Death Timers past 30 minutes start getting really, really long. They get long enough that a massively fed team dictating the game can, through sheer cockiness usually, get cleaned up and lose a bunch of objectives in one fell swoop.

If the game somehow presses into 50 minutes and isn't over, a single team-wipe can cost 3 tours, an inhib, and two nexus turrets in many circumstances.

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

Oh, I've had that happen before.

Everyone on our team lost early and mid-game, but we managed to stall the game until about 45 minutes into the game (through two Baron pushes) and stealing Elder Dragon from the enemy team. At that point, we were down 20 kills, 12k Gold, an inhibitor and a nexus tower.

While they were sieging our base, we managed to catch someone out and turn it into a 4-0 trade (with only their support left alive). We just rushed down mid-lane to kill everything from their inhibitor tower to their nexus.

Honestly, that was a good game. Everyone kept trying to win and nobody ragequit or raged at others in chat.

Titanium705 votes

(1)Besides the fact you can indeed make a comeback - I've won so many games like this - (2) you can always learn things playing a game from behind (3)the 'Comeback' is not a thing that happens at random, you can train it. (4) Additionally(and because of that) I don't surrender - not in life, not in games, not in League.

There just are those who accept the challenge of a bad game working hard to win that 1 game out of 10 and those who prefer the easy/fast way to play more games total. Everyone has to decide for himselfe which way he chooses and I wont try change others decisions.

But one last thing: If you're 'stuck' in a Team that wants to keep playing.... DONT SPAM SURRENDER 24/7!!! That's annoying, disturbing and demoralizing! And it makes people tilt even more and just voting NO out of frustration! (5)Because even people who keep fighting are realizing when a game really is lost and they will surrender eventually (at least I do)... IF there is not this one !#*/§!! who decided to spam ff20/surrender since FirstBlood! (#babyrageend)

Z Statistic6 votes

Yeah, no.

Don't try to make this a morality thing. It's all about expected values. If you've ever withdrawn from a queue, that's 'surrendering'. If you've decided that you can't find something in the store, that's 'surrendering'. Some people have a lot of investment in games (like you and me) and some people don't (others). There are plenty of environments in which surrendering quickly is not only viable but superior to holding out.

It's nice to wax poetically and romantically about sticking to your guns, but you need to have a realistic assessment of reality. If 4 people leave your game and the enemy just camps your ass outside the fountain and kills you as soon as you spawn, you're telling me you're not going to stop playing? Because that happens in DotA, and you said you don't ever surrender in any area of your life.

420 grams1 votes

Reading that dudes post, I'm not seeing where he said never surrender ever. They're saying that just because you're losing, doesn't mean they want to quit. Ever watch baseball? Just because someone gets 2 strikes, they don't surrender and quit and walk off. They try to swing again.

Rockm Sockm2 votes

[{quoted}](name=420 grams,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=drFMEaA9,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2016-12-05T19:23:06.605+0000)

Reading that dudes post, I'm not seeing where he said never surrender ever. They're saying that just because you're losing, doesn't mean they want to quit. Ever watch baseball? Just because someone gets 2 strikes, they don't surrender and quit and walk off. They try to swing again.

Ever watch baseball major league vs little league? Your analogy is self service and not applicable.

You also picked the one sport with a mercy rule.

Two to three people fed 10 death each. They are early game champs so tjey are even more worthless when behind. They have zero idea how to play from behind and keep getting caught out and/or jungle fighting.

Why should I be held hostage by these people? They already wasted 20 minutes of my time and I don't want to stick around for 30 more. It's silver so don't pretend the other team knows how to end or do anything but farm kills while hiding in bushes.

It's real fun being a adc and the only one warding or defending turrets. I just love being turret dove over and over then watching the enemy team leave without taking tower.

Why do the feeders get a vote? If you caused this problem yoy shouldn't get a say in ranked if we continue to put up with you.

Boosted mmr and now autofill have made this 10x worse. This is literally 75+ percent of games in silver.

This isn't we gave up one kill surrender at 20. No amount of time or 20 more games is going to stop these feeders and toxic people who think they are the next faker.

Titanium702 votes

You realize there is a difference between not surrendering and being stupid... or being desperate, do you?

If you've decided that you can't find something in the store, that's 'surrendering'

Like... what? If said store does not fit my style it's a fact I cant change.

If 4 people want to surrender - they can.

Additionally:

Because even people who keep fighting are realizing when a game really is lost and they will surrender eventually (at least I do)

To not Surrender does not mean to not accept a lose in life or League! It does not mean to keep playing against BM'ing enemies against all odds. It means to keep the morale and dont think about a lose until its final. If I dont bother thinking about a negative outcome and if it's ok to surrender I have alot more focus on the game it selfe. (That translates to real life quite easily - just saying)

Z Statistic2 votes

You didn't seem to make that distinction considering you said 'not in life'.

The fact of the matter is that you are playing with strangers who value this game differently than you. There is no difference between cutting your losses in a game and cutting your losses at the store. When you make surrendering in League a choice of morality, you are then implying that cutting your losses is morally wrong. And when you qualify 'surrendering' with 'it's being desperate', then see my point above.

We can place people on a spectrum of 'gutless' to obstinate, but to label any cut-off point as needlessly surrendering is subjective. Do not mistake my stance; this game is incredibly swingy past a certain point. Staying in the game/stalling if behind in the best way to win and is pretty doable and in the moment it can be frustrating when you're losing and you just want to stop, which introduces a bias on your objectivity of the situation.

However, even for accounting for all of that, people have different values. While it is prudent to encourage people to stay in the game for the above mentioned reason, calling them cowards or shaming them is condescending.

Unless they give up and afk after giving up FB. We can agree that there is black and white at the extremes. It's more like the guy wants to throw in the towel because our anti-siege isn't very good and it's very dangerous to ward jungle to catch people out.

Titanium702 votes

Something I want to add:

However, even for accounting for all of that, people have different values. While it is prudent to encourage people to stay in the game for the above mentioned reason, calling them cowards or shaming them is condescending.

I dont rate peoples decisions. There are those two sides - Surrender fast and play the next and 'never' Surrender. Both sides offer advantages and disadvantages, that's why it is a decision. I'm quite close to the never-faction (obviously) but I dont respect people less if they made another decision. (What I disrespect are little ragers unable to accept a 'NO'. =P)

Sure I said surrendering fast is easy, that's true - but I never said anything about this being smart or dumb. And I'm not (and maybe noone else is) in the position to judge this, because I simply dont know.

Maybe it really is smarter to surrender fast spare your stamina (and mental state) and win more games in total. But I keep fighting because I like the challenge, value a high winrate more than a maybe faster climb and I really love the feeling of winning this sixty minute war.

And about the 'cutting looses' part: Yes, it's important to do so and the timing is always subjective - completely true. In RL even more than it is in the game, obviously. And no, it is not morally wrong. But everyone has his own cutting point and their are 5 people bond together. Luckyly we have a democratic system to solve this.

ACENOX4 votes

Mordekaiser this dude is fun to play even if you lose, i get fun 24/7 even if i get camped and go 0/7

Cocho2 votes

I don't really care about in normals, but in ranked, I've had a game where the support leona never connected and we jungle afk like 10 minutes in.

They overstayed and we wiped them a couple of times, then leona reconnected 20 minutes in, so the kha started playing again, then the enemy renekton afk'd.

Then we won lol

Iwinatlife421 votes

Some people throw harder than Major league pitchers

The Yetii Rider2 votes

I know exactly what you mean about being held hostage. Especially when 3/5 of the team want to surrender, or 3 of the team vote yes and one guy doesn't vote. That's the worst feeling ever.

The main argument I see against surrendering is that the action accomplishes nothing. You may be 99% guaranteed to lose but surrendering just moves that to 100% and some people see very little benefit in that.

I just don't want to waste my time, and playing from behind for longer than fifteen minutes tilts me and ruins my next game.

Neko Caitlyn2 votes

When the enemy is winning 50-0 and refuses to push and is fountain diving thats when I just afk.

Escheton2 votes

Because there was a time you could always have a comeback. It just meant you had an epic 30-50 minute game.

Just because riot nerfed comebacks into the ground doesn't mean we don't still have hope for those season 4-ish epic games to happen once in a while at least.

Silverjust1 votes

I also like this epic games where both teams where equal from the beginning and everyone is fullbuild and its all about skill

Truly Prideful2 votes

I'm usually not willing to consider a surrender until they've at least taken an inhibitor. At that point it's easy to look at and see if a comeback is possible. Surrendering before that feels pointless to me, they haven't even cracked the base yet. I don't mind playing the long game, that's what I play the game for. I have limited time to play but I'd still rather play two long games than 6 games where a team surrenders at 20 minutes.

Obviously a 4v5 or situation with a troll will change that to a 20 minute surrender.

Rebonack2 votes

Maybe they want to get better at playing from behind?

I've never understood the attitude that if a game is lost (but not over yet) then it is a waste of time. Are you playing just to win? Or are you playing because you enjoy the game?

But then again, I played Dominion almost exclusively since it was released. In the ~5k games I played I saw a match end in a surrender exactly once. And that's largely because snowballing didn't exist there and the only way to win was by consistently out-playing the enemy team. This is a strike against the design of Summoner's Rift. The fact that the game feels awful for most people when playing from behind is the reason why surrendering is even necessary.

420 grams2 votes

The same reason you don't only play against beginner bots; it's gets boring when you win easily. It's fun to have a challenge and get to improve and try to best the enemy. You miss all the shots you don't take, so surrendering is just saying you don't want to win when you can.

Iwinatlife421 votes

I see both sides of the argument Although I used to be a never surrender type. Then a wonderful Youtuber named Dong Huap instructed me on how to not be hitler.

LostFr0st1 votes

Some people are looking for that "amazing throw comeback" yes.

Most common probably: They want to continue playing because even if one lane fed they finally finished laning phase and they themselves are fed and can help now (they get pissed since they think they can truly turn the game but their team didn't press tab and ffs on them)

Another reason (rare) people want to learn what to do when behind in-game (or just want to kill that one enemy that's bming before the end)

Still others want to keep the feeder/poorly playing player in a game for longer so that it might sink in that they don't just get to walk away from any game where they go 0-10-0 in lane and complain while running into their lane opponent on-spawn.

Stardew Valley1 votes

There's really nothing you can do to change this. Everyone goes through these games. Obviously if the surrender fails, more people are willing to keep playing than to give up. Just keep playing. If the enemy is that far ahead anyways, the game would end soon. Unless your enemies are the type to prolong the game. And don't start behaving badly because of it.

Danielchavez31 votes

I can see both sides too, Some players have too much pride or strongly believe they can make a comeback, sometimes one of the 5 players is feed up even though the other 4 are getting murder he thinks he can change the game around and thats why they won't surrender, but some players get stressed out and just want to surrender to start a new game, fresh start. On my opinion I feel like when they have so much advantage i like to surrender, so i can start a new game and try to fix my mistakes

Ozzie Storm1 votes

This is what i go by. If we're stomped by 10 min i usually surrender, if they're fed but it's close to lategame i don't, simply because gold income won't matter in lategame. If we play it safe. don't inichiate fights, and just defend then we can comeback ( it has happened before when the overall kd i is 5/24 to he enemy and we play it smart and win). If i'm fed but the rest of my team is dying (especially when i'm adc) i wait a bit, try to carry and make plans with the team. If it doesn't work I surrender. Occasioally i don't surrender because he enemy team isn't good in cooperating as well as we do despite what the score is, knowing that a single mistake from them would turn the tides and lead us to victory.

Here's the thing though, the feeling of a comeback after getting stomped so hard is amazing, especially when you kill the one bully that kept killing you, that feeling by itself keps me from surrendering sometimes.

Ralanr1 votes

Because sometimes all the enemy needs is one mistake to turn a victory into a throw.

Though if I'm hating how my team interacts with each other, I'll say yes to surrender.

Spicy Rice1 votes

The way I see it, You can learn 10x as much from playing out a losing game, than from straight up winning a game.

Even if i know I'm going to lose, I'd rather play it out, and learn how to play in losing situations, so i can come back in future games

Danjeng1 votes

What's the point of playing if you win every time? Challenge yourself.

In life, what will you do when you are getting beat down? Surrender?

The Letter H1 votes

http://www.buzzhunt.co.uk/wp-content/2012/05/this-close-to-success.jpg

Never give up

This picture mostly applies to lower elo's, as throws happen so often there that it's quite easy to win a losing game if you know what to look for. I do know this is not always the case, but its pretty common. Higher elo player's normally know when a game is over, but even then your enemy can make a stupid mistake. And if you capitalize on it, you could win.

Escheton1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I UnbenchedKench,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=drFMEaA9,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2016-12-05T20:27:05.743+0000)

http://www.buzzhunt.co.uk/wp-content/2012/05/this-close-to-success.jpg

Never give up

  • This mostly applies to lower elo's, as throws happen so often there, as in higher elo's people ACTUALLY KNOW when a game is over. But still this picture has purpose.

Yes. That physics don't apply in it's universe and the. Top miner would fall through floor.

5050BS1 votes

In ranked NEVER FF. They could Throw at 45m and you win

In Normals I ff to no waste time.

SwordOfWar1 votes

Because you can just ace at a baron throw and have a whole minute to win

Joman7671 votes

Personally i almost never surrender unles they have at least 2 inhibs and the score is loterally 60/5. Dont tell me you never made that insane comeback from far behind with inhibs down tho

FioraWillCarry2 votes

{quoted}

Personally i almost never surrender unles they have at least 2 inhibs and the score is loterally 60/5. Dont tell me you never made that insane comeback from far behind with inhibs down tho

Of every game I have ever played where my team lost two inhibs, I remember no more than 4 come backs. 4 out of 400 games. No mate, we lose even 1 inhib and I'm ready to ff. I fuckin hate this stupid ass never surrender bullshit players like to harp on about.

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