Nerf Vayne's Stealth Duration to 0.99 seconds

EcchiOtakuTM·Oct 27, 2016·49 votes·3,426 views

Or another item will be broken.

You thought could break duskblade will show you how to break duskblade.

Fail, thought this was PBE boards.

75 Comments

ReZisT LustOct 27, 201616 votes

Vayne tumbles into bushes YOU CANT OPPRESS ME!

EcchiOtakuTMOct 27, 20162 votes

Lol

Ariel the CruelOct 28, 20161 votes

Malzahar R Warwick R Karthus R?

CowseedOct 28, 20161 votes

Kayle R B^)

ReZisT LustOct 28, 20161 votes

E Vayne Its fine since its two women so i can oppress.

ReZisT LustOct 28, 20161 votes

item 3139 item 3157 Stop oppresing me!!! Vayne

RandomoniumOct 28, 20169 votes

Maybe we should give Vayne 0.7 seconds of stealth for every full second of stealth the male champions get.

ReZisT LustOct 28, 20164 votes

Thats not equality she'd need 2

lolipopevelynnOct 27, 201612 votes

i have a better idea. lets make duskblade melee only. ranged carries have no business buying it in the first place.

EcchiOtakuTMOct 27, 20165 votes

Yea I pretty much agree quinn/twitch/mf and jhin should go back to what they were designed around crit builds.

If jhin's ratios scaling is weak they can just slightly increase the % a bit, but all of them in general should go back to their normal builds before lucian/jhin made pene builds a thing.

Kitty ClarissaOct 28, 2016

Twitch is part assassin , quin is assassin too from her kit , For them its ok since they are normally out of sight vs the enemy VS a jhin and MF who tend to be out of range for ults only mainly. They dont need the item but the armor pen is still good on them + imho they would need the new MR assassin item more so that they can ult in peace since 1 hard CC = gg them .

6SfoolOct 28, 20161 votes

Now I wonder how duskblade interacts with Quinn's nearsight. I might permaban her if it works.

Chembaron YamadaOct 28, 20165 votes

Even if it works, it wouldn't be broken at all. Duskblade needs you to be unseen for 1 second. So you could just utilise it with Quinn's Q if:

the enemy is isolated (no other champ having vision on Quinn)
there is no ward
there are no minions around

This is way too situational to make this combo broken, don't you think?

6SfoolOct 28, 20162 votes

True, didn't think about the difference between unseen by one champ and unseen in general. Plus, that's the most logical and well-organized comment I've seen in a while. props.

invisiblecat1Oct 28, 20161 votes

Why would you need to buff Jhin's ratios??? He already has 600 AD with 4 items

EcchiOtakuTMOct 28, 20161 votes

It's pretty bad compared his armor pene build cause the scaling is awful, compared to other champs who still have AS 600 AD is nothing. And he can't even take turrets well without pene(The turret changes buffed pene builds once we weaken them jhin's crit build will be more enforced but not fufil any of the jobs pene jhin did). And the ulti is weaker with the crit build.

So in general:

Jhin can't actually take objectives compared to the pene build

Passive's scaling doesn't really compensate jhin not actually using AS for faster attacks.

Q benefited more from armor pene than AD increase.

W- Same as Q

E- Works better with raw AD but it isn't your main damage

R- A lot weaker without armor pene builds completely gutting the first 3 shots

Simply increasing his AS->AD ratio and lowering base for increased ratios would improve his crit build. But as it stands, the lethality build is less impactful early(Thank god) and hits ADCs with youmuu/duskblade nerfs(Also thank god xD). The rest function with their crit builds but the issues of jhin's will just simply resurface since pene builds did improve them noticeably.

ReZisT LustOct 28, 20161 votes

Thresh :3

GULAG 4 UOct 27, 201610 votes

Actually vayne would lose dps (because she would have to stop autoing) in order to pproc the duskblade damage (and lategame using tumble also lowers her dps anyways).

RavenMagusOct 27, 201615 votes

You might lose DPS, but when you're in a duel (or fighting someone who is trying to dive you), the time lost doesn't matter when you're safe in stealth during it so the opponent isn't attacking back.

So it's bad if you're shooting away at a frontline tank in a teamfight, and great in every other situation.

GULAG 4 UOct 28, 20161 votes

In that case you are right, duskblade only helps her fill up the DPS she loses for tumbling. Will it be op? it's a possibility, but most likely will only be broken on kha'zix.

RavenMagusOct 28, 20161 votes

It's hard to say it's going to be OP, honestly. Yeah, maybe it's going to be sick, but Vayne's late game tumbles are actually already stupidly ridiculous - there's plenty of clips of Vayne literally one shotting people with a single tumble crit.

KoKobotoOct 29, 20161 votes

It does matter if the enemy has lifesteal and spends the time you're in stealth by healing off something or regening or getting cooldowns back up

RavenMagusOct 29, 20161 votes

That's honestly really rare, and if anything, them attacking something else for some lifesteal just means they're doing even less damage to Vayne since they're not going to have an immediate auto attack ready for her when she appears.

I guess it might matter if it's one of those 200% lifesteal Graves or Nasus and you happen to be fighting in the middle of a lane (which is already a less favorable situation for Vayne), but anyone else, at any other time... Again, not really an issue.

KoKobotoOct 29, 20161 votes

You have to stealth for one second so in 1v1 when Vayne splitpush because Vayne is always splitpushing one second is a lot, especially when almost all champions have more than 1.00 A/S and have abilities, for low rank I guess it doesn't matter though

RavenMagusOct 29, 20161 votes

It's still one second that the enemy isn't shooting Vayne.

And if they're lifestealing off something, then they're likely not anyone tanky, in whch case Vayne will just one-shot them with the ensuing tumble crit anyways (which matters a lot more than any minor true damage she's getting from Duskblade, to be honest).

KoKobotoOct 29, 20161 votes

Yeah thank's for seeing my point that duskblade isn't that useful

RavenMagusOct 30, 20161 votes

It's an interesting thought, to be sure. But current Vayne does such insane amounts of damage already that a hundred extra true damage is a drop in the bucket.

feryvunnyOct 27, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dr4BJETA,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2016-10-27T21:52:52.119+0000)

Here's the video where he does this, at 47m 25s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyjsOWGXrV4&t=47m25s

Watch that and tell me how pressing 2 buttons for 2k damage makes vayne lose DPS late game because she cant get in an extra 2 autos while waiting out the stealth. lol you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about

Keep in mind she still has 1.73 attack speed and 440+ AD. Also keep in mind tumble has a 2s cd so every 2s during her ult she can dish out 2k damage with true damage from BOTH her W and Duskblade passive

GULAG 4 UOct 27, 20162 votes

Considering Vayne gets around 2.0 attack speed and tumble dealing 170% phys damage the animation time and thhe one second of wait so you can get the duskblade damage that's not very good. You're the one being ignorant and has no idea of what he/she's talking about.

feryvunnyOct 27, 20164 votes

She still reaches the same amount of attack speed so I don't see why that is a problem. The animation time? lol? Casting ult>tumble literally takes half a second.

You have to wait in the stealth, yes, but every vayne player knows not to auto right away in stealth regardless of build. Sorry, but you just made yourself look even worse lol I doubt you even played it on pbe and you're going around spouting all this bs. That or you just aren't plain doing it right

GULAG 4 UOct 27, 20164 votes

Except when you are at 2.0 attack speed the ult cast time, tumble, andn staying in stealth matters A LOT. Players like you simply refuse to recognize this item isn't going to help vayne a lot past level 13 after the first proc because you are shitting on your dps in order to deal the 200 true damage.

feryvunnyOct 27, 20162 votes

You're talking like she still can't auto during the fight. You stay in stealth regardless. You don't seem to realize that these assassin items still give absurd amounts of AD and armor pen, so it isn't like she will auto for the first burst and be useless. lol smh get a pbe account and play it for yourself, then come back to me.

GULAG 4 UOct 27, 20166 votes

I don't need to play on the PBE to understand that Vayne can't use duskblade properly.

Tumble animation time already reduces her dps
Staying in stealth and not attacking for one second reduces your dps even more
Duskblade does not deal more damage than your auto attack

All 3 of these points combined prove that if vayne tries to use duskblade effectively, she is fucking herself over. Point is made. And your first 2 sentences are saying nothing and buying armor pen on adcs is stupid after the assassin's update, you are buying items to get your early better and the items aren't giving you the early anymore.

You lost this argument and you have came up with 0 decent points. Case closed. Admit it.

feryvunnyOct 27, 20162 votes

You're just spouting stuff I already addressed.

Vayne already tumbles for dps. I don't see why this is a problem. Her fucking kit revolves around tumbling lol... Late game, maybe, but you still tumble to kite/chase and this build lets you do 2k damage in 1 auto with true damage on a 2s cd. You can still auto attack in between that window, believe it or not.
Yes, but if you even remotely know how to play vayne, you know that staying in stealth and repositioning is a must. I don't know any good vayne player that doesn't utilize the stealth. You're staying that it's bad to stay in stealth. You clearly do not play vayne and/or don't know how to.
It does not. But that isn't the point. The point is that it deals true damage, amplifies 200% lethality so you shred anyone with the raw ad you already have. This is not the only component. You still pair it with Shivv's passive, Trinity that amplifies 200% AD, gives tanky stats, CDR, and a load of atk spd that vayne needs and that is where the damage comes from. Ghostblade adds more raw AD with cdr and lethality.

Sorry, you think you're winning the argument, but the reality is that you're just that deluded lol like I already said, get a pbe account, play it yourself and then come back to me. You're just making yourself look dumb at this point.

GULAG 4 UOct 27, 20164 votes

You go on and ignore the animation time once again. Re-positioning loses dps, that's the point. I didn't say anywhere it was bad to stealth neither.

And then proceed to tell me I'm deluded and then 200 true damage isn't more than your auto attack and you would shred slower for trying to utilize it's passive. It's pointless to discuss with you.

And ghostblade lost it's attackspeed too, it isn't good anymore on adcs.

PoskeOct 28, 20161 votes

Vayne doesnt really scale well with armor pen because lots of her dmg is in silver bolts

Just because this high elo player one shoted some boosted bonobo doesnt mean that the vayne is OP

I have one shoted entire teams of silver players with katarina just as fast as this vayne did. Does that mean katarina is OP to?

PoskeOct 28, 20161 votes

Just by looking at enemy team dmg dealt you can see they are silver bronze

If YOU PUT a chall player against that YES HE LL ONE SHOT

The DeckownerOct 27, 20161 votes

top lane vayne care no shit about dps, it is all about the burst and 1v1 duel.

GULAG 4 UOct 27, 20162 votes

I'm pointing a fact, I don't give a shit about vayne's current balance state. And the fact is tumble's animation and vayne staying in stealth for one second (not attacking to get Dblade's effect) is losing dps and not gaining.

ReZisT LustOct 27, 20162 votes

who needs dps when you can 1 shot

GULAG 4 UOct 27, 20163 votes

I. Don't. Give. A. Shit. About. Vayne. Being. Able. To. One. Shot.

I'm saying she will just be screwing herself over for trying to use the duskblade effect, and vayne IS a dps champion. The burst build because popular because of the buffs.

ReZisT LustOct 27, 20161 votes

she gets a fast death per second

GULAG 4 UOct 27, 20162 votes

She still screws herself up for using the duskblade effect even if you try to respond to my point my making a joke.

SpoofghoulOct 28, 20161 votes

Morgana oh yea please don't tumble out of my ult

AsteckOct 27, 20164 votes

I personally think that it won't bust vayne as she loses a second of lategame damage each time she tumbles. It also requires her to build more lethality which isnt really required on her because of Silver bolts (W). But I havent faced it yet, so maybe she is, it just seems that PBE would be complaining more if she became godlike.

feryvunnyOct 27, 20163 votes

Have you seen the videos on it? She can literally deal 2k damage in one R>Tumble. And remember the new dusk blade passive is true damage.

Triforce, shivv, and zerk boots will give her the atk spd and cdr while the raw AD from the other items will still let her keep up dps after the stealth tumble. It's dumb and needs to be addressed asap

Phylol has a video on it and the enemy adc literally got 1 shot. And by 1 shot I don't mean an assassin's full rotation 1 shot. I mean Vayne literally used ONE AUTO and killed their adc. There is no counterplay to that lol

Nameless VoiceOct 27, 20161 votes

Here's the video where he does this, at 47m 25s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyjsOWGXrV4&t=47m25s

TalisidOct 27, 20166 votes

Gee do you think it was maybe the 1776 points of physical critical strike damage that is the issue? Do you think maybe they need to revert the buff that lets Vayne's Tumble Damage to benefit from crit?

Nah lets complain about 170 true damage. Duskblade is not the problem. The fact is that the extra damage from the Duskblade is maybe a 10% damage increase on her burst. She can already do absurd amounts of tumble damage on the live servers right now.

Hell the Static Shiv proc dealt more damage than the Duskblade.

WoonStruckOct 28, 20162 votes

Duskblade's damage is great for early-mid game. Late game, due to all the lethality you're building, you're likely to make your physical essentially true damage as well.

You can't tell me she'd be dealing that much as burst without lethality.

Yeah, you give up DPS...but DPS Vayne isn't exactly doing well atm anyway, and she likely still won't next season.