Which CertainlyT Champ Should I Ban Every Game?

Kivolan·Jan 30, 2018·90 votes·4,861 views

For quite awhile it's always been , but now that Dr. Doom has created his next abomination with , I'm not sure which to ban in my games anymore.

Do I want to deal with a four second shield that blocks half the abilities in the game, a passive shield, dashes galore, and playing "dodge the tornado" every four seconds that pretty much mean certain death for me even while under turret should I get hit?

Or do I want to deal with the RNG goddess healing herself / proccing Hextech items on me every thirty seconds in lane, dodging her two second sleep bubble from point blank range after she hops next to me with her 10 second cooldown ult, and then being one shot by her "poke" skill (which, for some unknown reason, can still be redirected through CC).

But hey, at least he makes champs that are fun to play as. It's a pity they just aren't fun to play against.

113 Comments

SEKAIJan 30, 201843 votes

I ban Zoe nowadays. I mean, her entire kit is literally broken; you got her Q that literally 1 shots people, you got her RNGesus W, you got her E which is just FUCKING broken, and you got her R which negates all of her drawbacks while giving her a shit ton of invisible power.

I think that's what CT is gunning for, they release champs each more questionable than the last, so that people would be inclined to think their previous work isn't so broken after all.

SalronJan 30, 201828 votes

{quoted}

her R which negates all of her drawbacks while giving her a shit ton of "invisible" power.

[sg-miss-fortune] Do you know what her R does? Also Do you know what "invisible power" means?

SEKAIJan 30, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dkQI355I,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-30T05:20:29.464+0000)

[sg-miss-fortune] Do you know what her R does? Also Do you know what "invisible power" means?

Here I use "invisible power" to refer to "utility".

Maybe unorthodox, but that's how I used the term for. The reason I use it as that is because utility is hard to be reflected on win rate and other related stats, and for Riot who almost always only balance by using win rate and whatnot as reference they often can not see how valuable utility is and how much it is power it gives to a champ; hence "invisible" to them. This is also the reason why Riot has a tendency to overbuff champs with high utility in their kit.

.......

Still doesn't change the fact Zoe as a package is a champion from hell anyway.

SalronJan 30, 201821 votes

Zoe's weakness is being jumped on, and R isn't true mobility, so she's still going to get destroyed the second she returns to her telegraphed return location.

For the record, "invisible power" is basically what it sounds like, it's not clearly visible A clear example of it was old WW's W, which granted a ton of gold in stats if he casted it near several allies, that's invisible power

Spells that you can clearly see the effects like her R do not fall under this term Zoe's R is probably best described as "Psuedo mobility"

SEKAIJan 30, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dkQI355I,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-30T05:48:04.236+0000)

Zoe's weakness is being jumped on, and R isn't true mobility, so she's still going to get destroyed the second she returns to her telegraphed return location.

For the record, "invisible power" is basically what it sounds like, it's not clearly visible A clear example of it was old WW's W, which granted a ton of gold in stats if he casted it near several allies, that's invisible power

Spells that you can clearly see the effects like her R do not fall under this term Zoe's R is probably best described as "Psuedo mobility"

Zoe's R negates her issue of being jumped on given it instantly gives her some range. It's not an escape, but clearly a breather, and allows her to juke very well.

And that, she also has her infamous point blank E, which destroys her entire deal of having her weakness being supposedly jumping on her. You will need at least 2 people to even have hopes about the possibility of getting her, and most of the time you need around 3 or more to ensure she's dead if we also consider her rest of the kit and summs. I don't think it's k, especially when she already has so much going for her.

PhDs NutsJan 30, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Zoe's R negates her issue of being jumped on given it instantly gives her some range. It's not an escape, but clearly a breather, and allows her to juke very well.

Zoe's E is what negates her issue of being jumped on. Long slow into a hard CC, and her ult just gives her Q more distance to one shot you afterward.

KennysDreamGirlJan 30, 20182 votes

Tbh I'm surprised people still think her q(alone, with your wording you seem to think it can without e) can just magically one shot somebody. This can not happen in anyway unless she has at least 2 and a half items (one of those might need to be ludens) from max range on a squishy target and even then unless commet hits they still might live. Maybe you could get away with two items(again, probably ludens void to be sure of a one shot) if the second item was a void staff and you had mpen boots but that would still require the target to be a squishy target with no Mr and a max range q.

FutureCreatorJan 30, 20183 votes

https://clips.twitch.tv/AliveWonderfulClintPastaThat

KennysDreamGirlJan 31, 20182 votes

that clip really doesn't help you with this.

SEKAIJan 31, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Tbh I'm surprised people still think her q(alone, with your wording you seem to think it can without e) can just magically one shot somebody. This can not happen in anyway unless she has at least 2 and a half items (one of those might need to be ludens) from max range on a squishy target and even then unless commet hits they still might live. Maybe you could get away with two items(again, probably ludens void to be sure of a one shot) if the second item was a void staff and you had mpen boots but that would still require the target to be a squishy target with no Mr and a max range q.

https://clips.twitch.tv/AliveWonderfulClintPastaThat

Zoe did not land her E for that 1 shot to happen, though she did use R to gain extra range. But yes, one shot can happen without E, nor did she have echoes in this clip, there was also no comets, and Ezreal did have some MR. If you freeze frame at the 9th second you'd also see the Q clearly did not touch Ezreal and was at least 1-2 teemos (unit) away from him, and landed anyway, but whatever.

Point is, Zoe's Q 1 shot is not impossible nor that conditionally gated, and its damage can be so unreasonably extreme even just by itself (and then you consider the fact there is her E, which is arguably the most broken part of the kit, and then look back at Q and think "shit, there's more broken shit in her kit? At least old Nid stopped at the spear bit!").

KennysDreamGirlJan 31, 20182 votes

in my other comment i said that she would need atleast 2 and a half items to on shot(with one of those items being void and mpen boots) and the target would need to have no mr and q would need to be max range. with this clip zoe is lvl 18 and with that build she has like 543 ap. if this player had blue pot and that rune that gives ad or ap at certain time marks(the clip being at 38 minutes that bonus would be an extra 48 ap) she would have like 641 ap i think it was( i went in game to check my numbers). with 3 penetration items and the little mr ez had (the 30 from qss would give him what, 70 ish mr) it is perfectly fine that her q one shot since it was from max range. i did watch again and the q technically didn't touch him but that's not a problem with zoes kit, that's a problem with riots shit hitboxes example Blitzcrank

Romans VI XXIIIJan 31, 20181 votes

No it is never fine for any 1 BASIC ability to 1 shot. Ever. Period.

Even if some one is fed they should NEVER 1 shot with 1 BASIC ability. Specially one on a 4s CD that deals AOE damage!

1 shotting some one with a full combo is rare in its self unless you have a large item advantage, but 1 shotting with just 1 ability or AA is absurd and should NEVER be allowed.

KennysDreamGirlJan 31, 20181 votes

it is perfectly fine as it is the only other ability to do so other than syndra r. yeah the cd is short but it cant one shot unless you are pretty much max range if you dont have the item setup from that clip. if you arent hitting an e+q or max range q you wont one shot so this is fine

Romans VI XXIIIJan 31, 20182 votes

No it is not fine. In no world is even the chance or ability to set up a pure 1 shot fine. Especiually on a 4s CD fast moving projectile, that deals AOE damage. She could technically 1 shot the INTIRE team, and do it again 4s later!

The Fact you are Compareing a BASIC ability that can 1 shot all by it's self to an ULTIMATE ability that requires nearly 10s to set up is ludacric! In NO world should a BASIC ability on a 4s CD come close to the power of an ULTIMATE ability on a 50s CD.

Zoe litterely has Syndra ult as a BASIC ability, with a 4s CD, and its AOE. And you think that is okay?????

Lord Phazanor Jan 30, 201811 votes

Your face when you made yet another abomination:
https://i.imgur.com/5T0pLl2.png[/img]

o brigid oJan 30, 201811 votes

Zoe is literally Ahri, if they gave her the "Yasuo April Fool's" treatment and buffed literally everything.

Q is a back & forth skill shot that does a lot of damage, but does a STUPID amount of damage if she lands her E first.

E is some bullshit cc that she isn't punished for if she misses, bc it sticks around and has a ridiculous cd.

W is just... why the actual fuck is this kind of monstrosity allowed?

Her ult is a dashy mindfuck except it has no cd. At least with Ahri when her ult goes down you know you have time to breath.

I remember when Ahri used to be able to kill you with one good rotation if she landed her E. Now, if you build any mr at all, she struggles unless she's blowing her ult AND ignite.

Zoe doesn't even have to do a full rotation. She just has to E Q... maybe twice.

I feel bad for Ahri, because Zoe does pretty much everything foxface does but she does it better, with more style, while laughing at our misery. I can't think of a single match up where you'd pick Ahri over Zoe... although honestly, I can't think of any match up where you wouldn't take Zoe if she isn't banned.

Ahri BakaJan 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Zoe is literally Ahri, if they gave her the "Yasuo April Fool's" treatment and buffed literally everything.

Q is a back & forth skill shot that does a lot of damage, but does a STUPID amount of damage if she lands her E first.

E is some bullshit cc that she isn't punished for if she misses, bc it sticks around and has a ridiculous cd.

W is just... why the actual fuck is this kind of monstrosity allowed?

Her ult is a dashy mindfuck except it has no cd. At least with Ahri when her ult goes down you know you have time to breath.

I remember when Ahri used to be able to kill you with one good rotation if she landed her E. Now, if you build any mr at all, she struggles unless she's blowing her ult AND ignite.

Zoe doesn't even have to do a full rotation. She just has to E Q... maybe twice.

I feel bad for Ahri, because Zoe does pretty much everything foxface does but she does it better, with more style, while laughing at our misery. I can't think of a single match up where you'd pick Ahri over Zoe... although honestly, I can't think of any match up where you wouldn't take Zoe if she isn't banned.

Then why do I always win against Zoe with Ahri ?

An Enemy SutandoJan 30, 20182 votes

Either you were lucky because the Zoe players you encountered are braindead, or you're in an ELO where everyone is braindead.

Ahri BakaJan 30, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=An Enemy Sutando,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dkQI355I,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2018-01-30T16:36:26.726+0000)

Either you were lucky because the Zoe players you encountered are braindead, or you're in an ELO where everyone is braindead.

Or that means simply you are the one who is brain dead ? Zoe isn't even a threat for most of other mages , Ahri can dodge both her E and Q with her ult then kill that Zoe , at least , I'm talking as an Ahri main , I never lost to Zoe even as Lux or Orianna or Taliyah or even Annie

BisaknospJan 30, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I remember when Ahri used to be able to kill you with one good rotation if she landed her E. Now, if you build any mr at all, she struggles unless she's blowing her ult AND ignite.

she even struggles with ult and ignite lol

CØulrophobiaJan 30, 20189 votes

Dr.Doom XD lol But seriously I think that guy has some sort of fetish for disbalance and utter annoyance.

AhristocatsJan 30, 20187 votes

KogMaw

abadhaikuJan 30, 20187 votes

All of them. The game plays so much better without any CertainlyT champs in the match.

GayFluffyUnicornJan 31, 20182 votes

Red WreckageJan 30, 20184 votes

You can ban yourself from playing this game too ;)

KivolanJan 30, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Wreckage,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dkQI355I,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-30T05:50:30.639+0000)

You can ban yourself from playing this game too ;)

Ugh I really wish I would. It's 1 am and I need to go to bed and here I am screwing around with bruiser Cho Gath builds.

Which are actually really fun if you get ahead early, BTW.

Red WreckageJan 30, 20183 votes

off meta builds are fun....ONLY if you get ahead early.

but getting ahead early itself means you got some early kills/level advantage on them noobs, which means you'll just run down any scrub in your way regardless of what you build.....which is quite fun ;)

I sometimes mess around building item 3042 item 3025 item 3147 on Yi/Kha'zix. Super fun when I'm ahead.

FedoranJan 30, 20184 votes

To be fair Zoe’s ult is easily predictable so you can set up cc and kill her

Meanwhile yasuo gets windwall and a shield, and can singlehandedly take over a game in Gold and below due to his insane damage while fed

FCJAAAAGOOOOJan 30, 20184 votes

I will never stop upvoting these threads. No one can stop me.

AmazoXJan 30, 20184 votes

Because only CertainlyT created problematic champions right? You all better shut up and quit barking cluelessly before I come up with proofs of exact patch notes, time of the X champion being an abomination & X champion being hated by the community for X time.

Just because majority of CertainlyT's champions are popular it does not mean you have to BLINDLY talk against that creative designer, I despise you people now, mostly the ones stuck LOW ELO or low plat complain about his champions.

#This thread deserves to be taken down & serious measurements should be taken for threads that talk badly about a designer without ACTUAL criticism which boils my blood.

ThilmerJan 30, 20184 votes

Ban one; then ask a team mate to ban the other.

BoilTheOilJan 30, 20184 votes

I still don't know why people fucking ban yasuo hes fine to play against

Imperial JapanJan 30, 20181 votes

Because 90% of boards are bronze/silvers

The Stabby TabbyJan 30, 20182 votes

Less that's he's unbalanced, more that he just isn't fun to play against for like 80% of the champions. Sort of like Blitzcrank.

Imperial JapanJan 31, 20182 votes

He’s easy to stomp. I object

KarunamonJan 31, 20182 votes

Anti-fun and overpowered/imbalanced are two different concerns that can be, but not always are, related.

DracosKasuJan 31, 20182 votes

There many anti-fun champ in-game.

Udyr Zed Nunu Fiora Gangplank

Yeah Zoe is annoying but I win more often against her then her win vs my team.

Imperial JapanFeb 1, 20181 votes

No I’m saying that he’s fun to play against because he’s easy to abuse (unless I go out of my way and counterpick myself HARD against him)

AbibyamaJan 30, 20183 votes

Darius Kappa

Bob the ToastrJan 30, 20183 votes

I actually have an idea for a Zoe nerf that seems reasonable to me:

Make her Sleep Bubble a ground-targeted skillshot that only affects the area where it lands instead of a linear skillshot that can hit anything along its path (think Ziggs Q without the bounce or Ziggs R). I think it should start out taking the same time to land whether it's 10 units away or 1500 units away, which allows people who need to jump onto Zoe to have some time to dodge around the bubble if they're good. If this proves to be too strong they could play around with the time it takes to land at close distances vs far.

I think this would be a good nerf though because you can't just shoot it in a random direction, you have to plan out where you want it to land first.

HalcyonDwellerJan 30, 20182 votes

That's a good idea, being area targeted and not working between her and that location would be a good way to give opponents fair opportunity to juke / out-play it.

SageaceJan 31, 20182 votes

The thing about CertainlyT is that he makes good champions to play as, and they ARE fun to play as. But playing against these damn motherf---ers is so frickin annoying, infuriating, and sometimes unforgivable. I swear, CertainlyT is an abomination to the champion roster.

Riot does need to keep him, he is good at what he does. But they need to REALLY watch over his work, like seriously, WATCH over his work. His Warwick relaunch is by far the most balanced thing he has ever done. And that was because somebody was watching over him (I cannot recall who, I just know somebody was checking up on him). They need MUCH better playtests when they play against his damn creations, because they are just..... abominations...

VexingRavenJan 31, 20182 votes

Can we just fire CertainlyT and be done with it? He was never a good fit for League of Legends, he would do far better in a certain other moba where every champion is like that.

PopcornBunniJan 30, 20181 votes

Yasuo has a far more overloaded kit. Two passives, no cooldown on his two damaging abilities, press W to remove counterplay.

Zoe is just overtuned. For a burst mage to do damage as high as hers is fine, she just needs a much larger cooldown on her Q.

Imperial JapanJan 30, 20183 votes

"Oh hey I can list the things the champion has :O"

"Alistar has 2 AoE CC abilities, 3 total CC abilities, a 60% dmg reduction, Can be build AP, TANk, or Bruiser, can peel extremely well with his displacement ability, and is virtually unkillable and can ALSO remove CC"

HåppyJan 31, 20181 votes

Yes. Alistar also has windows of opportunity and drawbacks. What're Yasuo's drawbacks? Squishy? item 3022 item 3053 fix ya right up. Kiteable? hahahaha. Uhhh.. what else.. hm. Two items and he can outduel anybody, his ult is pretty much on the same CD as Yi's Meditate, his windwall is one of the strongest defensive abilities in the game, and he's incredibly mobile. Yasuo is actually obnoxious. When Alistar gets put behind, he stays behind. Yasuo? Nope.