Possible problem. Phase rush and tahm kench.

TheSingularity··2 votes·1,034 views

When turning what used to be stormraider's surge into phase rush, I don't think Riot thought about how the changes would interact with TahmKench.

Just faced this terrifying combo and it was absolutely hilarious, definitely caught me off guard and I laughed my ass off every time he carried me away at a million miles an hour. Was just so shockingly hilarious as it was so unexpected. Did end up losing but it was mainly because we just fked around and the minions ruined absolutely everything. Tried to see how far he could carry me, he got from his inner turret all the way to his fountain before spitting me into it XD

However it does show a small problem in that the one weakness of tahms W (a 95% slow while enemies are eaten), is not only lessened but is completely nullified with an obscene amount of movement speed to spare.

For a quick comparison between old and new: Stormraider's Surge: Dealing 30% of a champion's maximum health within 2.5 seconds grants you 40% bonus movement speed and 75% Slow Resist for 3 seconds.

Phase rush: Basic attacks and abilities generate stacks on enemy champions hit, up to one per attack or cast. Applying 3 stacks to a target within a 3 second period grants you 25% - 40% (based on level) movement speed and 75% Slow immune icon slow resist for 3 seconds.

The basic combo was AA Q AA W. So he procs phase rush before eating me, sending his move speed to 418.75 (without boots) and reducing the slow from his W to 23.75% (due to 75% slow resist from phase rush). So now tahm's move speed is only reduced by 15 of it's current value, down to 403. This value was enough for tahm to take me from about the middle of top lane, and spit me out underneath his tower with almost nothing to be done in retaliation pre 6.

Can't run away due to his E slow, and I can't remove his stacks so whether I like it or not, at some point he's eating me and spitting me out. Whether it's under a tower or in his team is up to the tahm. Now imagine this with item 3009 and a item 3748 for the AA reset (to get the stacks on faster). It's almost an instant combo which results in you being eaten and carried away at a startling pace. He could have added item 3742 item 2065 or if he wanted to go mad enough an AP/AD item that granted % move speed increases.

Not sure how swifties and phase rush interact, but if it's additive it results in 100% slow resist for 3 seconds or if not something like 80% slow resist for 3 seconds. But also with 55 additional movement speed to chuck into the percentage amplifier

On several occasions he came out of no where, did his combo under one of our towers, ate someone popped his E and ran away, and there really wasn't much we could do (especially if they were alone).

While this interaction would definitely be fun and funny to use based on facing it, I don't feel it's healthy to have a vital weakness turned into such an obscene strength via a keystone, particularly with such little counter play as in theory it could all be point and click (3 AA then eat). Potentially either bring back storm raiders surge or make tahms W an exception as an interaction like this just doesn't fit in the game, as amusing as it might be.

7 Comments

Atmosphere1 votes

It's a cheese strategy. It isn't overpowered, it isn't used that often, so they aren't going to change anything about that interaction.

TheSingularity1 votes

It's less about it's effectiveness and more so how much it sucks the fun out of the game.

For sure it wouldn't work vs a proper comp as you'd be able to peel the tahm ez pz. However just playing a norm and this comes along, outside of the shock factor there's nothing fun or engaging about this interaction. You can do nothing to stop it on your own, so if you're a carry you just have to hope you team mates have the tools and capabilities to stop him. Or vice versa you have to hope your carries have counter built adequately.

Jungler comes to gank? In he goes and off they go to tower. Farming under tower? In he goes, grabs you and drags you to his jungler to finish the job. Think about it this way, you're sejuani but you're 0/20 against a darius but you still have to lane against him. What can you do to stop him from killing you apart from leaving lane? Not a whole lot, and not a whole lot of fun to be had there either

Atmosphere1 votes

You say that it "sucks the fun out", and while I agree its pretty cancerous to go against, it's also extremely fun to play. You're basically saying "my fun is more important than their fun, plz change it." That isn't a good reason to nerf the strategy.

TheSingularity1 votes

5 individuals' fun, an entire team is more important than the fun of one person. This interaction affected everyone as tahm ulted from lane to lane, runin under towers, grabbing people and running away with no back lash possible due to his beef, slow resist and speed.

If I die to Darius , it certainly wasn't fun but chances are here was something I could've done about it and can change for next time. There is absolutely nothing, any champion can do to stop this on their own or even with 2 people. Tahm can and will eat you under tower and carry you into lane. Or in lane then under his tower.

Little counter play, QSS is not up often enough to stop it and like yi, if you don't have the team to perfectly counter it you lose by default.

You can't even "don't get close" this thing, as he'll just keep chasing you

Atmosphere2 votes

Five people's fun is worth more than one person's? Sorry, didn't realize Kench was W'ing all 5 teammates at once. And that you can't crowd control him. And that you're constantly fighting under tower so he can drag you there. Seriously, it sucks to go against for 15 minutes of laning, then its a useless strat. Stop complaining

Lord Malpercio1 votes

Faced this once myself, did not even realize what happened. It was a Tahm top lane, and the next thing I knew he'd taken me from the middle of lane to his turret for a free kill. I was shook.

meowwow71 votes

i've face this and used this but for me i still prefer my glacial augment tahm to secure that i actually eat them in the first place

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