Yes, his win rate is shit right now.
RIGHT NOW.
Give it a minute. He's actually quite strong in the right hands, and may be in a decent spot as-is, perhaps even strong.
Let people figure him out. Let people provide a good amount of feedback. Don't go rushing for the buffs just because his win rate isn't up to snuff. (Ha... that rhymes.)
Kai Guy1 votesYep, and ap items are right around the corner.
Barkley1 votesyeah. I really don't think they should be touching many ap champions right now unless they're extreme outliers (Cough cough, Anivia)
VICKLIUS1 votesswain didn't need rework, he just needed an update adjustment, such has having his pass gain him mana or hp based on which is lower based on dmg dealt by his abilities, q (animation Beatrice pecking, interact w/ e Beatrice animation becomes beam and hits multiple targets in her aoe if they are marked by e), add 1.2/1.4/1.6/1.8/2x on q dmg while marked by e instead of 1.2xdmg e aoe add"WHILE marked dmg to swain is reduced by 20%"increase range so can lead w/ it w when snare enemy champ gain ms, 10sec cd all ranks from 18/16/14/12/10cd R when hit send out another raven at attacker(increase mana cost/for current mana cost) to counter that he can only send one every other second
I came up w/ the pass to help deal w/ the mass healers an he was dot so kills didn't make sense an only mana, q I hate abilities that get adjusted dmg based on target type like(or less from repeated hit) X2 just cause minion,so added e interact for the X1.2-2 dmg an to make it hit multiple also for his pass an to keep minion dmg same w gain ms so he could either go in or leave, an such long cd for reason idk(honestly hate cd go down, just make constant, more fun, more consistent playing) plus they are rooted, him gaining ms because of that is going to affect much e an help vs assassins an to go w/ pass , r I already explained an this is the 18th separate post of ppl complaining of how riot made a new champ, and they did a crap job of it , plain and simple. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/IhLUOUK6-the-new-swain-discussions?comment=0001
Kai Guy1 votesbit better, add some space between abilitys, and cap the first letter. Same issues, your adding in an extra 2-4 targets on his QE with out nerfing the damage to compensate, your adding in 0.8 damage amp, MS utlity, and 20% higher survivability as well as CD buffs.
What counters this? R is now thornmail that heals, E negates 1/5th of all burst.
Please, use a more reasonable suggestion if your going to keep making this post in every discussion about swain. All your doing is huge game breaking buffs, and several of them, this is not a good suggestion.
VICKLIUS1 voteswhat would u suggest? I did take off the dmg modifier of q to minions, so it actually does .4 less at max rank,(how this game break vs other champs w/ dmg modifiers)
W only gets the ms if it roots, an if they are rooted they not going anywhere, the ms was just to help him get close enough because of its long range, and just put it at its final rank cd for more consistent play because no else has that long a cd for basic ability, so maybe lower its range( how is this game breaking?)
An the e dmg reduction, he was suppose to be a tank an dive, an they are a bunch of champs w/ dmg modifiers of 50% like brand which would still left a 10% deficit on swain by comparison, options: w8 out mark then go in, lower how long it lasts
His r was the lowest dmg dealing of all ultimates, even regular abilities out dmgd it
Kai Guy1 votesIf you going to continue talking about swain in each new post, I would suggest you rework ability's and fix the problems you see in his new kit. Completely redoing abilitys in said kit is fine, Replace X with Y etc.
If you want to talk about a Drain tank Diver kit, I would sugguest you create from scratch a new champion and post it in creations and concepts.
You got to realize that all your buffs stacked is a bit to much, it overloads his kit. E alone is providing 1/5 less burst if used on the right target, that's pretty huge especially on a sustain tank. your adding in AOE, but not nerfing damage. AOE tends to be lower damage and for good reason.
Lets look a little closer at swains old R. level 1. 50 damage a second, hits targets max 1 time per second, checks for targets every 0.2 heals for everything hit. so you can hit a total of 25 targets per second healing off all of them. 3 seconds of R, even vs just enemy champions is 150 damage with 60% ap scaling. 300 for 6 seconds, 120% ap scaling. lets say 4 seconds, a reasonable amount of up time in a fight. 200 damage, 80% ap scaling a gain of 80 hp with 48%ap scaling. Assuming you hit all 5 targets that's 1000 damage with 400% ap scaling, 400hp and 240%scaling.
When talking about balance AOE needs to be balanced around its best case not being to easy to land or to strong. Also just point out that his ultimate could put out at level 1 1250 damage per second with 500% ap scaling in the very** unlikely and rare** moments he had 25 individual targets.
VICKLIUS1 votesno there was a 5 limit target of birds an 3 on champs, an r's dmg is spread out vs aniva,ziggs, brand,karthus ,mf,gp, not to mention he has to get into those champions range, an I did nerf r by adding cost so would have less time, an 150 is still typically less dmg than an ad champs base ad, an I'm sry when is the last time you went into a 1v5 an lasted 4 seconds, not lowering e dmg cause no way to test although yeha it probably would've been lowered, an dmg reduc is that not the idea of tank? e best case hit all 5 go in an last for more than 1 sec, w how dif from ahri q which gets from anything. it was like either go 0 dmg tank, go dmg an get bursted, go mix an adc can still out heal ur dmg not to mention cancel ur heal
Kai Guy1 votesradius 700 units.
Toggle: Swain assumes the form of a demonic raven. While in the form, lesser ravens strike out, one every 0.2 seconds at up to 5 nearby enemies and dealing magic damage to them, prioritizing champions. Each enemy can only be attacked by one raven at a time and only once per second. Magic Damage Per Raven: 50 / 70 / 90 (+ 20% AP) Swain heals himself for a small amount against minions and monsters, and for a bigger amount against champions. Heal Per Raven Vs. Non-Champions:8 / 11 / 13 (+ 3% AP)
Edit. Also I uh.. don't make a habit of going 1v5, I like to use teammates. 
also means that I only need to be worried about 1.5 seconds worth of damage, hence 4 seconds being used as a reasonable number. 150 base ad at Level 6? whos Base Ad we talking about?
Swains best case is 25 targets, realistically we really only care about damage on 5. On champion best case 250/350/450 DPS 100% ap scaling Per second in an Aoe with some extra minor heals for any minions around.
note that as he previously could only each champion per second, your R nerf is not, any one who can auto more then 1 time per second will trigger additional damage and heal for swain, making their life go down his go up. Yea overall he will take more damage then he heals but it punishes them for autoing, and makes him harder to kill. so... not really a nerf if it ups his damage output and durability compared to previous version.
Also damage reduction is not the mechanic you want on a Drain tank. They need to do damage to tank, making them do damage and be impossible to kill is infuriating for players.
Hey h0w r ya1 votesHe is insanely weak. Like Lucian level bad. He needs the buffs
Barkley1 votesI just don't agree with this or believe it. I've seen him solo carry games. I've seen him become an unkillable unstoppable monster that just murders everyone with ease and doesn't even care.
Lucian hasn't done that for many, many years. Honestly idk if lucian ever did that. Sure he was great at 1v1, 1v2, 1v3 way back, but I can't recall a time I ever saw lucian literally 1v5 a team.
i've seen that out of new swain. 1v5 pentakill.
Hey h0w r ya1 votesYou are playing in low elo then.
Any champion can look nutty if fed enough.
In my games in high plat low diamond when the enemy team picks swain all anybody says is "Nice a free win"
Barkley1 votesI'm gold 3 mmr, gaining 26 LP per win in silver 2. Gold 4 last season, peaked at plat promos 4 times (never made it, sadly). Still too early in the season to be judging people by rank, tbh. (although judging people by rank is pretty much always a douchebag move.)
but I play with plat and diamond friends, one of which plays quite a bit of swain and has a pretty decent time on him.
There are also several other threads from all different elos claiming swain is fairly balanced, even strong in the right hands.
I'm not sure how saying "wait and see" is a cause for a dick-swinging contest, but I'm gonna stick to my opinion that waiting to buff him is the best bet. Let people get used to him and figure him out. Buffing him prematurely could have drastically negative results. Another patch or two isn't going to hurt anyone.
I mean... Lucian's been dead for years. Viktor was too, and honestly I'm not even sure if his newest buffs helped. one or two patches for swain isn't gonna hurt.
Hey h0w r ya1 votesI am just saying he is weak, which is the truth. Stats don't lie. He has little to no mobility, Gets half his kit countered by an 800 gold item, is short ranged, and doesn't do near as much damage as other meta Mid laners.
He is fun no doubt and looks cool but he is in desperate need of buffs. If they want to wait until after the AP item changes that is fine but he will need them
Diamond2Kappa1 votesStats don't lie.
Diamond2Kappa1 votes^
Chembaron Yamada1 votesAgreed, they should wait with buffs for him. His kit is extremely different from what it was before, people have to figure him out first. And looking at his winrate, it is climbing over time. There is definitely still a learning curve going on, as long as this doesn't stagnate for a period of time, it's too early to judge.
