Next time you "don't wanna rush Zhonya's" and complain about Zed/Fizz, remember this:

Lao Fu the Tiger·Jan 18, 2016·2 votes·668 views

"All failure is failure to adapt, all success is successful adaptation."

-Max McKeown

8 Comments

Maximum MordeJan 18, 20163 votes

Rushing Zhonyas will leave you unable to wave clear hard enough to keep them from roaming because of mana. If you do follow them on a roam, they will kill you even with Zhonyas. Meanwhile since you followed a zed, the minions will eat your turret. If you don't follow then they will double kill your bot lane.

This applies more to zed than Fizz cause Zed has stupidly high wave clear at zero cost combined with safety even Lee Sin is jealous of. Fizz only has the safety part.

This wouldn't be a problem if they had more neutral matchups instead of a ton of rekt or get rekt matchups. That's the problem with assassins in general. Their only neutral matchups are with other assassins.

Lao Fu the TigerJan 18, 20161 votes

I have never, never had a problem with mana with 2 Doran's Rings (they got buffed) and rushing a Seeker's as a first item. Never.

Why not? I don't spam spells to waveclear. And while matching waveclear is certainly fun, when laning against a bully, you have to learn to adapt to the situation. That means realizing you won't have the same waveclear as normal. That means making sure other lanes stay safe. That means survival until you get to mid game.

You can disagree. That's your choice. But since two Rings now gives equal mana regen to Morellonomicon, I haven't had issues. Even on mages such as Brand. Three rings gives plenty. And as an added bonus, it makes you tankier.

Maximum MordeJan 18, 20161 votes

Zed isn't a Bully. Rumble, Draven, Miss Fortune, those are bullies and they have clear weaknesses. Zed is just someone's favorite champion at Riot HQ. Besides the best counter to Zed is just banning him from the game so nobody has to deal with his cancer.

ErockandrollJan 18, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lao Fu the Tiger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dYXfj4gP,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-01-18T17:02:06.689+0000)

I have never, never had a problem with mana with 2 Doran's Rings (they got buffed) and rushing a Seeker's as a first item. Never.

Why not? I don't spam spells to waveclear. And while matching waveclear is certainly fun, when laning against a bully, you have to learn to adapt to the situation. That means realizing you won't have the same waveclear as normal. That means making sure other lanes stay safe. That means survival until you get to mid game.

You can disagree. That's your choice. But since two Rings now gives equal mana regen to Morellonomicon, I haven't had issues. Even on mages such as Brand.

I could agree on a few points. Doran's ring is highly underrated in terms of how much mana it actually gives you. But their are hungrier champion out their who simply need more mana. And they have very little flexibility in what they can build when. (usually, the much get RoA as fast as possible.)

Your policy might be, "Don't play champs who can't adapt." And yet, that would actually exclude some of the more powerful champions right now.

All while, the double doran's start isn't even best for defensive starts. Rather, it's good for rushing raw power. Even if you did rush Zonya's, that's still a 100 AP item. All of which is going to help you poke and wave clear.

As for the wave clear argument. I don't actually play mid lane often, But when I do, I always try to poke and last hit at the same time. That's the easiest way to Bully while not missing CS, and conserving your mana. But regardless how how good a Mana item is or isn't, The best champs to use a minimalist mana strat, are going to be the ones who can kill, long before Mana becomes a problem.

disregardableJan 18, 20162 votes

I remember the last time I played against a Fizz mid lane. I counterpicked him with Lux, I brought Exhaust, and I rushed Zhonyas. He did not kill me once that game.

XenomancersJan 18, 20161 votes

Last time you played fizz you countered yourself, built defensively, and beat a bad fizz. That's what really happened.

RavenhaleJan 18, 20161 votes

Well, playing Ahri for the first time in months against a Zed for the first time (I don't Mid which is why it's been months)...

He was up 20 cs by the 7 minute mark and had me pushed to tower the entire laning phase. I didn't rush Zhonya's but I did pick up a Tear, Seeker's and Boots (in that order). I immediately said something any time I did not see him in lane or saw him leave. Following was a bad choice because I had no vision where Yi was most of the time and couldn't 1 v 1 Zed if he turned around and fought.

We won but only because Zed couldn't carry his team. He finished 8/1/5 with about 70 cs more than me. (I went 4/2/14 with one of those deaths being an epic fail at Dragon in which we took the dragon only to give Zed a triple)

XenomancersJan 18, 20161 votes

If you aren't rushing item 3165 or item 3174 or item 3027 on an AP mid you are doing it wrong. In some cases where you are ahead and looking to roam a lot something like item 3020 item 1058 item 3114 can work too. Rushing an item that gives you no mana regen and no cdr and no mobility is kinda like saying - "please push me out of lane and take my turret."