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So are we still fine with Fiora's AD scaling %max health true damage?

Sasogwa··13 votes·984 views

At least Vayne has to autoattack 3 times to get 8% max health true damage

Fiora ults, hits 4 points => 60% max health true damage with 3 items.

I don't even care if she's balanced (which she is most likely not, since she sees a bunch of competitive play), I don't care if you nerf her numbers. As long as that shitty mechanic remains, she's still gonna be bullsh*t as a concept.

Oh sure, right, she is the Grand duellist, she must be able to duel anyone ! Uhm have you thought that tankier champions would also deal... less damage? Making them obviously easier to duel even without %health true damage?

%health physical/ flat true is already a really good tool for dealing with tankiness (which currently sucks dicks anyway) no need for overkill with %health true dmg. She's not even a tankmelter by design, she does very fine against squishy targets, it's just.. plain stupid.

Yes, yes, it sounds like a butthurt rant, but no I'm not even getting rekt by Fioras. I just find it a very bad and unhealthy concept (just like Kalista's passive but well, it got through, like a lot of crap)

21 Comments

ApexInTheCircle10 votes

NO ones fine with it, Nobody wants % health true damage on anything. It's the single thing in this entire game that has 0% counterplay period.

True damage, countered by health. % damage countered by either Armor or MR depending on damage type.

% health true damage = A fucking turd that should have never been implemented.

Wordse2 votes

I am fine with it

WarlockLaw1 votes

At least attack speed slows massively reduce the frequency for Vayne's proc due to it requiring 3 autos for each proc. Meanwhile Fiora can proc it four hits in a row

Ultraboomer2 votes

She can proc her true damage 5 times in a row. Hit one that's on your target, ult, then hit the 4 from your ult.

WarlockLaw1 votes

Fair point, never thought of that

Lovelle3 votes

%Hp true damage is not fun to play against, especially as a champ that has to invest in defense in order to do their job.

They'll never be able to truly balance Fiora as long as she has that. She'll always either be too strong or too weak, just like Vayne.

Sasogwa2 votes

So, people downvoting me, but they don't even answer the poll or explain why they think I'm wrong. Interesting.

Crett2 votes

Maybe I'd be begrudgingly fine with it without the two slows and constant MS boosts

tanks are really getting shafted lately

Sasogwa2 votes

KOO Tigers showing how Fiora is balanced

http://i.imgur.com/cpzYXCI.png?1

Captain Aishi2 votes

%hp true damage needs to be entirely removed from the game, period.

Sire Hippington2 votes

i think haveing some & truedamage isn't a problem, but the huge scaleing for lategame is. %truedamage doesn't need scaleings, it's equaly effective at any given point in the game. Right now, it's pretty pointless early on, makeing her passive a gimmick early rather than what defines her trades/playstyle, later on it reaches opressive values that negate tanks comlpletly. With hydra+BC+BT, you reach about 15% per proc, takeing 60% with a full ult. Thats just absurd numbers. Which wouldn't be a problem if killing tanks was her sole identity, but her Q+aa+e does far to high damage while offering no counterplay. Champs that have the tools to avoid her ult/passive usually are squishy, and due to high overall damage even without passive, she just rightclicks them to death not giving a damn about her passive, while champs that are resilent enough to deal with her q+e bullshit lack the tools to avoid her passive, so come to latergame, she doesn't give a damn on their tankiness...all that with her W which gives absurd outplay potential and allows to turn the remaining defense of tanks against them by blocking and kinda deflecting their cc...

IF prperly tuned, she could be a great champ that is interesting and intense to play as and against, but right now she's just so overtuned in her offensive patterns that all you can do is outplay her on a macro level, which always works vs any champ, if you have better calls and rotations, you have a huge advantage, or you snowball early vs her. Or you have a massive siege/teamfight comp and the enemy team fails to play a proper splitpush game.

Sasogwa2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dXiwqu2u,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-10-18T17:42:06.176+0000)

I agree with what you're saying I also do think she's a huge problem right now because she's a splitpusher (all right) BUT just.. better than the other ones. She's like, a splitpusher with big teamfighting potential (ult for heal and killing fast a frontline tank), high mobility, good outplay tools, one slow. And she pretty much outduels any other duellist, outscaling them in lategame, while being a lane bully and a better teamfighter. I don't think that's balanced.

Ultraboomer1 votes

I can tell that my comment may be unwelcome, but I'd like to say that %hp true damage isn't that bad. flat damage is really good against squishies but worse against anyone who's built hp. where %hp is most effective on tanks, and does less damage to squishies. also, considering that fiora is a melee based champion her marks are somewhat harder to hit than someone like vayne who gets it on basic attack hit. Am I saying that fiora doesn't do too much damage with her passive/ult? no. I'd have to agree it could be tuned down a bit, but I'm tired of people saying that %hp true damage is cancer. if anything flat true damage would be if more people had it, especially when paired with max/current/missing hp damage. Right now I can only think of yi and vayne having it on spammable abilities. unless you want to include rek sai's e. This is only my opinion and I welcome good arguments to convince me otherwise. Oh, and for anyone who hasn't seen this yet, you can use a item 3140 or a item 3139 to remove her ult. (though this doesn't make any difference in terms of balancing the ability if you ask me.)

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

Shouldn't exist.

Ser Garland1 votes

"Do you ever consider that tanks do less damage so they'd be easier to duel anyway?"

And yet in the old days, in a straight up fight, AD auto attacking champions like old Fiora would get stomped by a Malphite with Frozen Heart, or a Shen with Sunfire.

Maybe, just maybe, tanks had a certain level of sustain that outlived the kits of AD fighters.

Vayne has a damn Passive which is always up when she acquires that basic ability; every time she hits anything three times. You're comparing it to someone's ultimate ability.

That said, yeah, if you hit all four sides you deal a maximum of 80% health true damage. If you hit ALL FOUR SIDES. You're likely to hit one or two in reality, and unless you do it as an execute while they're already low, you won't kill them, and you won't get the heal.

Her fantasy is "The Grand Duelist". Meaning she should be able to outfight anyone if they give in to her challenge. The counter play to her ult is to simply walk away from her challenge. You ever see a drunk on the street who wants to fight you? Just walk away.

...

Now, the problem with Fiora. Is not the damage. Its her insane movement speed when hitting a Vital. There's so many items in the game that enhance this, and what should be a rather risky move when leaping onto an opponent, becomes almost as safe as a ranged poke when its Fiora who's doing the leaping.

Furthermore, her movement speed also counteracts the whole "I'll just walk away" counter play. Imagine said drunk that wanted to fight you, now imagine that Drunk is The Flash and as soon as you turn to cross the street, he's right in front of you.

Fiora is extremely mobile, that's what gives her her power.

SwapShadows1 votes

no competent person is fine with it it's just that most of the loud and huge low elo mob is currently QQing about vayne or something else that barely matters currently.

A Prop Phone1 votes

As a Fiora main from the start I think you guys are doing a lot of whining because of how the true damage looks on paper. In reality it's not like you are always automatically doing 60% true damage. Half the champions in this game can just straight up walk away from you.

It's the same complaints as always, you're a tank and you can't 1v1 a melee ADC that basically just builds damage. Get over it, just because you buy tank items doesn't mean you should be unkillable.

Not to mention she is barely over 50% winrate, almost 4% lower then before the rework.

Sasogwa1 votes

Ok wait a minute. I don't think Fiora should have 0 tools to deal with tankiness. Or that I hate her for not being able to 1v1 her. It all comes down to a problem of excessiveness. You do not need to have insane %health true damage (which is both the strongest mechanic to kill tanky and the most unhealthy) to beat tanks, and the fact you don't have it doesn't mean you will get destroyed by those. It's not even a matter of duelling. Jax is a great duellist. Does he have %health true damage? no ! It's always possible to readjust numbers. Something such as %health, even if a bit unhealthy, does have relevant scaling against tanks and is somewhat counterbuildable. Also you can get item 3071 /item 3035

A Prop Phone1 votes

You take away Fiora's true damage on the rework and replace it with physical and you'll be back to a useless AD melee champ that can't build tank and gets blown up in team fights.

Sasogwa1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Prop Phone,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dXiwqu2u,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2015-10-18T21:26:15.892+0000)

You take away Fiora's true damage on the rework and replace it with physical and you'll be back to a useless AD melee champ that can't build tank and gets blown up in team fights.

You keep the current iteration of Fiora and she remains pick or ban for months in competitive then gets nerfed on her numbers until she's utterly garbage tier and has 40% winrate in soloQ. And how would she get more blown up in team fights or would not build tank? Changing true into physical doesn't make her squishier all of a sudden. Also obviously changing from true to physical would mean a buff in the numbers (that would look pretty scary though).

Another solution would be to butcher the ratio on her passive while increasing the base damage of it, making ridiculous scaling out of the equation and more of a duellist bruiser (because when your ratios are lower, you prefer building tanky). I'm more fine with a tanky Fiora that can deal 30% of my max health in true than of a carry/bruiser (1/2 defensive items) that can deal 60+ % of it only with the passive. I actually don't see much of a problem with a tankier Fiora with lower scalings and higher base %health. Much more healthy and more about being able to use her heal in teamfights.

A Prop Phone1 votes

Just what this game needs, another melee bruiser.

I played Fiora since she came out, and I actually prefer the old Fiora, but apparently that kit was toxic too. I just find it hilarious that as soon as Fiora is on the map everyone complains, even though her win rate is actually lower than before.

Anyways, as a Fiora main I'm looking forward to the incoming nerfs because of all the complaints so I can actually play her regularly again.

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