Bruiser builds are expensive af.

AR URF·Jan 27, 2018·31 votes·4,711 views

People have already run the numbers so really it's not worth going over. I just feel like when I go top lane and someone picks a tank, they comeback with or and I'm stuck at .

27 Comments

DontTouchMyBallJan 27, 201829 votes

GOD BUILD: item 3031 + item 3094 + item 3087 = 7600 Gold (80% Crit Chance)

PLEB BUILD: item 3078 + item 3748 + item 3053 = 10433 Gold

Bonus: Yasuo : item 3046 + item 1018 = 4200 Gold (100% Crit Chance)

No further comments, it speaks for itself. #~~balance~~

AR URFJan 27, 20186 votes

{quoted}

GOD BUILD: + + = 7600 Gold (80% Crit Chance)

PLEB BUILD: + + = 10433 Gold

Bonus: : + = 4200 Gold (100% Crit Chance)

No further comments, it speaks for itself. #~~balance~~

Keep in mind that yasuo's passive gives him 10% less crit dmg and those items have no additional ad so his crits would be around 190 and you have to take into account resistance items so he'd be doing like 120-130 crits to an enemy. Meanwhile you slap item 3134 on any assassin and they'll be able to 1v1 Yasuo

TehNACHOJan 27, 20186 votes

Shhhhhh, don't go against the Yasuo hate. They'll hunt you down, it's not safe.

AR URFJan 27, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Shhhhhh, don't go against the Yasuo hate. They'll hunt you down, it's not safe.

I'm already targeted by people searching through my thread history and down voting me based off that alone. I'd rather take my chances in the pursuit of truth.

RyrynounetJan 28, 20181 votes

I find yasuo 100x time less annoying than actual adcs to be honest, at least yasuo need to hit a tornado (Sadly you can't dodge adcs AA) or he need to get to you (sadly adc's aa are range). At least his W don't give him endlessly sustain (sadly adc got cc bot, shield/heal bot and sometimes one bs lifesteal item). Furthermore in laning when I hit once yasuo shield I have some times to deal dammage (while this ******* adc will still sustain whatever he's doing)

It's extremely useless to blame how unbalanced yasuo is (if he's unbalanced :v) if i'm always shouting how adc are busted as hell because of how much I hate them, it's disgusting to see a kha'zix unable to 1v1 an adc who isn't even feed. It's even more disgusting to see that you're able to win games when you have a full comp made of adc (cf: my last game), their garen felt squishy af, kha'zix was a joke because of how he couldn't get to one of our adc :x

LordGeovanniFeb 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dWBrLUTE,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-27T22:01:04.711+0000)

I'm already targeted by people searching through my thread history and down voting me based off that alone. I'd rather take my chances in the pursuit of truth.

how you know that you one of those guys going through your thread history looking for downvotes? or you standing behind the guys as they do it? maybe people in the threads see your comment dont agree and down vote it? im curious and legitly asking how do you know that.

Sahn UzalJan 28, 20183 votes

I don't think the 10% less crit damage is what you should pay attention to. His passive eats up a fair amount of power budget. And it's a champion specific mechanic which he is balanced around.

I'm quite glad the mechanic is there because it forces him into an offense heavy itemization.

-someone who does not play Yasuo.

Iffy JarlJan 27, 20181 votes

Ok what would you rather those items cost U want crit items to cost more? bruiser items cost less? because it probably wont be the latter because pretty much any of those bruiser items are better individually than any of those assassin items, they are also more flexible and make u tanky while providing alot of dmg It's not like u can go item 3087 and then go tank buying shiv is basically an investment in an entire build with little flexibility whereas u can go item 3078 feed ur ass off, decide that u dont wnna do that anymore and go item 3143 item 3194 and maybe a item 3053 and be a tank while still doing decent dmg

ModAcademy KaynJan 28, 20183 votes

The ADC build is simply pure damage, MS, wave clear, and some extra range. The bruiser build is getting health and damage, along with mana, waveclear, a big shield when dropped low, and MS (along with Phage stickiness). So not only is the bruiser getting extra damage, but they're getting extra survivability.

Hmmmmm, I wonder why the bruisers items cost more...it's almost like they do more or something....

DontTouchMyBallJan 28, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dWBrLUTE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-27T20:56:31.486+0000)

Keep in mind that yasuo's passive gives him 10% less crit dmg and those items have no additional ad so his crits would be around 190 and you have to take into account resistance items so he'd be doing like 120-130 crits to an enemy. Meanwhile you slap on any assassin and they'll be able to 1v1

I know, I just included for he sheits and giggles, ~~I am guilty of loving to hate on Yas, I cannot help it, its this odd love to hate kinda of thing~~ <3 forgive me xd

[{quoted}](name=Iffy Jarl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dWBrLUTE,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-01-27T23:14:26.167+0000)

Ok what would you rather those items cost U want crit items to cost more? bruiser items cost less? because it probably wont be the latter because pretty much any of those bruiser items are better individually than any of those assassin items, they are also more flexible and make u tanky while providing alot of dmg It's not like u can go and then go tank buying shiv is basically an investment in an entire build with little flexibility whereas u can go feed ur ass off, decide that u dont wnna do that anymore and go and maybe a and be a tank while still doing decent dmg

TFW my post made me look like a bruiser main.For reference, I am support >65% of the times, 30% of the games I play ADC and maybe 5-10% Jng. I cant say I rather this or that. All I am saying is: Crit is seem just too cheap in my opinion, also people are crying to nerf ADCs more than anything else lately and last but not least: bruisers are a kinda of a joke right now. Im sure the new rune coming soon for the resolve tree will manage to balance things out or so I hope so.

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dWBrLUTE,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2018-01-28T02:13:57.071+0000)

The ADC build is simply pure damage, MS, wave clear, and some extra range. The bruiser build is getting health and damage, along with mana, waveclear, a big shield when dropped low, and MS (along with Phage stickiness). So not only is the bruiser getting extra damage, but they're getting extra survivability.

Hmmmmm, I wonder why the bruisers items cost more...it's almost like they do more or something....

Wow Bravo! You really showed me! Idk what to say except are yuo serious? You know what? The 2 of us can play that game:

ADC gets extra damage out of Crit with item 3031 , damage reduction with item 3046 , Waveclear and poke damage with item 3087 , AoE with item 3085 , CDR with item 3508 , Sustain with item 3072 , MS on all item 3086 Items, survivability with item 3156 , item 3026 , item 3140 and a role which purpose is dedicated to them so THEY MAY NOT EVEN NEED TO BUILD DEFENSES! Other roles dont have a Support!! Must all ADC mains want their cake and eat it too? Im an ADC player too and I recognize the game could be more enjoyable for everyone not just me as a supp/AD player.

It's so easy to to vomit how OP TopLaners Items can be without context. Here is some context: Most of us agree ADCs are getting out of control and TOP role is a joke right now kinda, specially in SoloQ (but in LCS TopLaners remain VERY relevant). item costs could be used to balance things, no? Just a thought, not suggesting it would solve the problem, afterall it ould in fact make OTHER problems. What I suggest is maybe we could adjust gold costs to buff & nerf accordingly? Idk, but this might just be worth to take into consideration at least.

What is my real opinion then?

to literally CHANGE NOTHING for now. Why?? Because they will split Precision AS stat with the secondary trees like they did with the HP stat of the Resolve tree and they also will add at least a New Rune to help Toplaners and "Bruisers", so I figure we shoudl wait and see how it goes :)

ModAcademy KaynJan 28, 20181 votes

What's your point for listing all the items for ADCs? Cause the point is What they're getting for building and the cost.

IE, PD and RFC may give you damage reduction, but you lose out on waveclear. Sub out RFC for Static, and you lose range for waveclear. If you wanna have mana sustain, you need let's sub out one of the crit items for it.

item 3031 3400 item 3087 2600 item 3508 3400 = 9400 which is only 1000 away from bruiser builds. This build gives you mana, ms, damage, and CDR.

Compare it again against the build you listed, Triforce, Steraks and Titanic (despite the fact that I think you purposefully chose the most expensive items, that's just my experience where I go for a tank item after a damage items or two. item 3143 is my personal choice, which reduces the average build by 500 gold.) But let's use the items you chose.

You get health, CDR, mana, a damage proc'd shield that increases your health as well, AD, sheen procs, stickiness, MS, waveclear (and not to mention the steraks and sheen interactions.) That is all you get from just those three items, the medium we were using.

If an ADC wants some damage reduction, they lose out on damage, waveclear, or range until they build the next one. And even then, they still can't have it all. RFC and Static loses you damage reduction. Static and PD loses you range. PD and RFC loses you waveclear. Going two AS/Crit items after IE loses you mana sustain and CDR. If you want to get armor, in your first 3 items, you then lost better damage in hopes of surviving longer.

Your main post was with three items, these items cost these much total. My response was due to how much each item gives corresponding to it's cost, and to which they might be priced differently. You cannot deny, that with only those three items, the bruiser build covers more fields than the ADC build does.

Now, is this a problem because Bruisers need these stats to be relevant, and as such, their items need to be expensive because of the stats that they require? Maybe, I don't know, but simply listing prices is not breaching the topic enough to do it justice.

DontTouchMyBallJan 28, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dWBrLUTE,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2018-01-28T18:23:04.566+0000)

What's your point for listing all the items for ADCs? Cause the point is What they're getting for building and the cost.

So I wasn't clear enough. The point of listing many, if not all, ADCs items was to simply mock you so perhaps you would understand how unvalid it is to simply list items. I defend that item costs should perhaps be considered as a means to balance the game IF everything else fails: the new runes and the resolve tree stats changes. From the looks of things, I failed to make my point clear. My bad. No use in me pushing further on the issue.

LordGeovanniFeb 1, 20181 votes

{quoted} It's so easy to to vomit how OP TopLaners Items can be without context. Here is some context: Most of us agree ADCs are getting out of control and TOP role is a joke right now kinda, specially in SoloQ (but in LCS TopLaners remain VERY relevant). item costs could be used to balance things, no? Just a thought, not suggesting it would solve the problem, afterall it ould in fact make OTHER problems. What I suggest is maybe we could adjust gold costs to buff & nerf accordingly? Idk, but this might just be worth to take into consideration at least.

What is my real opinion then?

to literally CHANGE NOTHING for now. Why?? Because they will split Precision AS stat with the secondary trees like they did with the HP stat of the Resolve tree and they also will add at least a New Rune to help Toplaners and "Bruisers", so I figure we shoudl wait and see how it goes :)

top laners are relivant in lcs because they are okay with being tanks and second supports because they get payed for playing the game. this is solo que we aint down with that

TèrminusJan 27, 20188 votes

Bruiser items are all fairly priced for what they provide besides Sterak's, which really should cost 400 less gold than it does (take the Ruby Crystal out of its recipe and reduce its Health to 400).

Zeal items are trickier to price because they're damage items that don't actually give AD. Maybe they could stand to cost ~200 more gold?

SpoofghoulJan 27, 20188 votes

not just 200 more gold

but make the movement passive unique so it wont stack

it's kind of bullshit how the ranged guy has more mobility then the melee guy

DJOKERJan 28, 20183 votes

#I agree

DracosKasuJan 28, 20181 votes

shiv item give attack speed, movement speed, crit but also give them more range or/and waveclear and extra dmg burst that can also crit.

Let not forget rune that give more money/heal on kill, 11% attack speed(for snowballing faster) and major rune that allow to heal and break the attack speed barrier.

All of those thing affect how snowbaling the bot lane became. It is not rare these day to see the bot lane come mid with already 5 kill + a tower kill at 10 min.

TerozuJan 28, 20188 votes

Bruisers aren't even a class in this game...

SHANK LUX MAINSJan 28, 20183 votes

Bruiser items are fine, tank items need to cost more. People circlejerk about item prices without understanding the items. Yes adc items are cheaper, but they also give literally nothing but damage. Tank/bruiser items cost more bc sheen phage gives more stats than ie rfc shyv..

LaçezJan 28, 20181 votes

Let's keep it that way please, as if we want bruisers to be dominating mid game.

ShinyTombJan 28, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Let's keep it that way please, as if we want bruisers to be dominating mid game.

I'd rather have bruisers than a bunch of tanks and assassins.

LaçezJan 29, 20181 votes

I hate tanks myself but I don't want someone like Illoai destroying me even more because they have cheaper items, even though I have built a clear lead...

Don LupusJan 28, 20181 votes

They should be, because being both tanky and a damage dealer SHOULD NOT BE EASY. Problem is that most tanks can do that nowadays, without even buying a lot of dmg items.

DeusVultJan 28, 20181 votes

Bruiser builds are too expensive, but tanks coming back with resists early is their hallmark of how to win lane. Does this excuse how much damage they are doing atm? No. But that has to do more with no one can bring 12 MR (from runes alone) to lane anymore at level 1, and base damages weren't compensated to match this.

Damage is too high across the board atm, but Riot getting rid of early access to defenses through runes and masteries has made it 100 times worse

Critmaster GarenJan 28, 20181 votes

actually they arent.

compared to mage builds, or tank builds, or even assassin builds, theyre somewhat expensive, but not far off.

the big items of most other carry classes are in a similar price range as big bruiser items.

item 3748 3500 gold item 3078 3733 gold item 3089 3800 gold item 3074 3500 gold item 3165 2900 gold item 3071 3000 gold item 3285 3200 gold item 3022 3100 gold item 3053 3200 gold item 3142 item 3147 2900 gold item 3814 3100 gold

assassin items like item 3147 might need about a 100 gold price increase, but the reason theyre cheaper is because theyre not scaling as hard against most targets. and they have other expensive items like 3500 gold for item 3812 to fit into their builds.

bruisers usually get a few 2900 gold price range defensive items like item 3742 item 3065 to mix in with the expensive offensive items. so their builds end up similar in cost. you usually dont stack all the 3500 gold items on a bruiser but mix them with some cheaper defensive items.

the real crime is that these fucking things item 3046 item 3087 item 3094 item 3085 only cost 2600 gold

its only marksmen builds that are ridiculously cheap and out of line. especially considering their scaling power. some of the bruiser items are expensive, but theyre also equally slot effective.

like really if you compare a real ap heavy mage build with a bruiser build with an assassin build, youll rarely find more than 500 gold difference in price. and then you look at crit and that shit is up to 1000 gold cheaper. so where is the real problem?

Anu3isIIJan 28, 20181 votes

More like Tanks and ADC have very cheap items...

LordGeovanniFeb 1, 20181 votes

Tanks have cheaper items but they also are less effective armor/ magic resist is less valuable for every 100 armor/ magic resist you buy and tank items dont help tanks farm compared to buying ad items.. the only way you should really kill a tank early is if they over stay while later you have things that let you stick to them as a bruiser for the drawn out fights..... is how its supposed to be if riot didnt shift the bruiser budget from item 1036 to item 1028 because adcs were building it. and the fact that everytime tanks get defensive nerfs bruisers get nerfed harder because they build those same items but get dont stack em. but keep advocating for tank nerfs guys good job.