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lategame kayle has no problem with dealing damage right now.

Critmaster Garen··14 votes·7,327 views

a kayle with a couple of items on her, especially item 3124 is already like a ranged MasterYi

so why does her rework have to 1 up herself on that and add additional aoe true damage to the mix?

her reworked q already shreds resistances, and if everything fails you could have just kept her current passive and make her attacks pierce or shred additional 3% armor per stack at lvl 16.

the current problem that kayle has is getting to her lategame. all this rework seems to do is to exacerbate this issue. it honestly looks like youre creating another Vayne

a hyperspecialized champion who is so overpowered lategame, that if she isnt kept complete and utter garbage early game to the point that its barely feasable for her to survive the lane phase, she will only be a problem for this game.

i dont know if you worked skillshots into her kit, but it doesnt look like any of the mechanics that you have worked into it have counterplay elements to them either. q looks like its still point and click, and her e just an active steroid. so once she hits a certain point in the game, it doesnt look like youre going to be able to outplay any of the mechanics in her kit either.

19 Comments

Sir Saltarin3 votes

First: We dont know if new Kayle aa passive will be a on hit effect or an on atack effect (like Cait passive that you dont 2 get stacks with item 3124 )

Second: I think that her Q is an skillshot, but I'm not sure at all because the video is really vague on that aspect, since it being point and click and with a similar range would overlap her E I assume that Q it's a skillshot.

Third: Not sure if you've noticed it but when she's casting R on herself or on an ally she cant atack and while I'm not 100% sure if it's like that it's a massive change because her bonkers lategame right now is that strong because she can have that dps and melt everyone while on her ultimate.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dTHMZuzf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-20T15:17:17.455+0000)

First: We dont know if new Kayle aa passive will be a on hit effect or an on atack effect (like Cait passive that you dont 2 get stacks with item 3124 )

you can bet your ass, that phantom hits are going to work with it. shes an on hit champion now, and riot wouldnt change that with her rework.

yes, we cant be 100% certain at this point, but its 99% likely.

Second: I think that her Q is an skillshot, but I'm not sure at all because the video is really vague on that aspect, since it being point and click and with a similar range would overlap her E I assume that Q it's a skillshot.

if it was a skillshot theyd probably have shown the indicator like they did with other champions in the past. (it might be a skillshot, but currently it doesnt look like it)

Third: Not sure if you've noticed it but when she's casting R on herself or on an ally she cant atack and while I'm not 100% sure if it's like that it's a massive change because her bonkers lategame right now is that strong because she can have that dps and melt everyone while on her ultimate.

her r not allowing her to attack during the duration doesnt change the other issues her kit has.

right now shes balanced around kindof a broken power curve. not just because of her invulnerability, but the insane levels of damage she can output after a certain point in the game. she is literally like a ranged version of MasterYi already at the moment. the only thing she lacks is his flat true damage.

in return her early game is kept so shit, that its barely feasable for her to reach that point in the game.

her rework doesnt seem to change that, but infact it looks like she deals even more damage than currently, which is pretty insane and i fear she will either be overtuned or just as bad as she is now, when shes balanced around that kind of lategame.

Sir Saltarin6 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/es/c/developer-corner/QkwlXTpc-quick-gameplay-thoughts-february-20?comment=0003000000000000

Well it looks like Kayle true dmg wont be increased neither with item 3124 or item 3085

That 1% coming hot

For the Q I'm still not sure if it's a skillshot or point and click but I'm aware that it's posible for her Q to be point and click which would be a mistake imo.

I honestly think that you are downrating the impact that is that she can hit while casting ult because current Kayle on lategame still has 525 range and it's not like she deals more raw dps than Twitch Kog Maw for example that both have massive range, what makes it up is her ultimate to be actually able to be in range and deal the dps while it.

With that gone on her ultimate will be way worse on a 1vs1 scenario than current Kayle, but her ultimate will be better on allies now.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dTHMZuzf,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-20T17:48:58.839+0000)

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/es/c/developer-corner/QkwlXTpc-quick-gameplay-thoughts-february-20?comment=0003000000000000

Well it looks like Kayle true dmg wont be increased neither with item 3124 or item 3085

That 1% coming hot

For the Q I'm still not sure if it's a skillshot or point and click but I'm aware that it's posible for her Q to be point and click which would be a mistake imo.

I honestly think that you are downrating the impact that is that she can hit while casting ult because current Kayle on lategame still has 525 range and it's not like she deals more raw dps than Twitch Kog Maw for example that both have massive range, what makes it up is her ultimate to be actually able to be in range and deal the dps while it.

With that gone on her ultimate will be way worse on a 1vs1 scenario than current Kayle, but her ultimate will be better on allies now.

ill admit when im wrong, but its honestly surprising, because its not typical for riot to make these limitations.

im still not convinced kayle being balanced soley around stats and her power curve is going to fix her current issue. if shes going to be a carry or even hypercarry late, then she has to be trash early on, since she doesnt have counterplay elements in her kit that she could be balanced around.

Sir Saltarin1 votes

I wasn't sure about Guinsoo and Runaan but I'm glad that it wont work because it would also tie her builds so much since at least Guinsoo would be needed always.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that Kayle is going to be balanced I was just trying to get exactly why is she going to be problematic and if that can be fixed on a hard or easy way due to her design.

I think that her ultimate will be nerfed because at max rank (in the gameplay video shown) it's 3 seconds of invulnerabilty and then that aoe dmg which I think it's too strong for engages but anyway we still dont know exactly how is her gameplay gonna be because no numbers are shown since she's still not on the PBE.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dTHMZuzf,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-20T18:25:40.105+0000)

I wasn't sure about Guinsoo and Runaan but I'm glad that it wont work because it would also tie her builds so much since at least Guinsoo would be needed always.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that Kayle is going to be balanced I was just trying to get exactly why is she going to be problematic and if that can be fixed on a hard or easy way due to her design.

I think that her ultimate will be nerfed because at max rank (in the gameplay video shown) it's 3 seconds of invulnerabilty and then that aoe dmg which I think it's too strong for engages but anyway we still dont know exactly how is her gameplay gonna be because no numbers are shown since she's still not on the PBE.

yea, i can imagine her ult to be op on a malphite engage or something similar.

Sir Saltarin1 votes

And checked it on PBE: her Q is a skillshot, you chose the direction and with a like 0.5s of delay the magic spear is throwed in that direction

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dTHMZuzf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-20T15:17:17.455+0000)

First: We dont know if new Kayle aa passive will be a on hit effect or an on atack effect (like Cait passive that you dont 2 get stacks with item 3124 )

Second: I think that her Q is an skillshot, but I'm not sure at all because the video is really vague on that aspect, since it being point and click and with a similar range would overlap her E I assume that Q it's a skillshot.

Third: Not sure if you've noticed it but when she's casting R on herself or on an ally she cant atack and while I'm not 100% sure if it's like that it's a massive change because her bonkers lategame right now is that strong because she can have that dps and melt everyone while on her ultimate.

she doesnt seem to have any unreliability or restrictive elements in her kit either to counterbalance her carry potential. she looks like shes still a pure stat check champion. so the ONLY balancing lever is going to be her power curve.

and thats exactly current kayles problem. i dont really see how her current problems are fixed with this update.

flibitydoo3 votes

this is the same bullshit that's going to ruin kayle

remember this champion? Akali

remember how everyone complained about the true stealth?

remember how riot kept that true stealth in for months, nerfing every other part of the kit, while her playrate/banrate continued to break records?

remember how they've gutted every part of akali, and finally, they hit the one that matters most, the true stealth, and suddenly her playrate/banrate start to fall? and because of every other nerf she's this empty husk of a champion with the worst winrate in the game and abysmal pickrates?

I pity the kayle mains who just want to play and enjoy their favorite champion.

"we could hit the problem and fix our game, but let's keep it in, ruin everything else and have the playerbase quit instead" -balance team

General Matty2 votes

Omegalul rip tanks

Galiö1 votes

I kind of agree. Her early seems to be worse, but her mid seems (maybe) better and her late actually seems worse (depending on scaling)

Kayle currently cannot be beat in a 1v1 late game; but that's due to range, monstrous damage, and her invulnerability.

However with the new one, she seems to have more utility (or buffed utility) and she locks herself out during her R. Which would mean she wouldnt be as much of a late game monster, even with the true damage cause she stops attacking you during her string point (unless her R does an absurd amount of damage of course).

Either way this seems like it may open her up to only needing 20% CDR instead of 40% which may be a buff... but if she still builds to the 40% that may be an issue...

But she will still be played more just because she is new... so there is that.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Because she doesn’t have her shred passive anymore.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Because she doesn’t have her shred passive anymore.

yes. i already addressed that in my opening post. they could have just kept the shred passive at lvl 16 instead of the true damage.

well spotted.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Indeed you have.

Flashes1 votes

I don't think she's SUPPOSED to be able to reach her early game easily though. Plus she has 25-35+ minutes of downtime before she actually gets that part of her passive.

Saevum1 votes

Worried about a possible counter for Garen?

She doesn't seem to have dashes. She doesn't seem to penalize melees early. She is still a squishy target. She still require her main items to become a threat. Hopefully.

You can penalize her early with trades. I want to believe. You can keep her down. Most probable, cause she has a power gate spike at 16. She probably still better 1 on 1 than team rounded.

The rageblade uncertainty - She would be broken af.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Worried about a possible counter for Garen?

im worried that literally nothing changes compared to her current gameplay.

and it looks like i was correct. they ramped up her lategame damage to twice what it is currently, and her early game is even weaker than live kayle. lmao. every single champion is just going to roll over her in lane.

this means she will always be a dumpster champion. if she was ever buffed to survive the lane phase, shed be immediately broken.

they fixed absolutely nothing, and practically made another vayne.

Daddy Ants1 votes

Runaan's Hurricane and Guinsoo's Rageblade have NO interactions with her true damage.

Daddy Ants1 votes

Kayle Q is a skillshot.

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