I believe that MMR should be taken away completely, and just have leagues in its place

awdaf·Mar 12, 2017·24 votes·1,326 views

Instead of having MMR, why not just have leagues as your true ranking?

In the current system, if you are Gold 3 with a higher than normal MMR, you get matched with Plat 5s/Gold 1s, however, if I'm at Gold 3, and I get matched with people where I belong, how will I move from my ranking at Gold 3?

If you just have Leagues as your true ranking, and MMR is no longer there, say you are Gold 3, you will only get matched with people 1 tier above you, and 1 tier below you, aka Gold 2/Gold4, which would be a much more true representation of you being better than the league that you are in.

22 Comments

ChargeItDownMidMar 12, 20176 votes

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BIH DiamondMar 13, 20171 votes

Then put me in my MMR elo. Nothing worse than when you're in a specific elo playing against people who are higher ranks because your mmr is higher. It makes climbing harder.

ChargeItDownMidMar 13, 20171 votes

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BIH DiamondMar 13, 20171 votes

How is it easier if you're playing people who are much better? I rather face people in my "skill level" than face people 3 divisions above me for an extra 5 lp. If I'm mid plat I shouldn't have to beat diamonds to get to high plat

Maximum MordeMar 12, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Instead of having MMR, why not just have leagues as your true ranking?

1s, however, if I'm at Gold 3, and I get matched with people where I belong, how will I move from my ranking at Gold 3? e in.

Because if your mmr is above your current league you don't need more than 50% win rate to go up since you will gain far more lp for a win than you lose for a defeat.

That said, I'd rather see us go to pure mmr. Simply define league as x% of mmr, like top 1% is diamond, top 5% plat etc.

Warlord ScrapMar 12, 20172 votes

But u still need to win more than half your promotion seriws and thats were the mmr system messes up

Maximum MordeMar 12, 20171 votes

Not with promo helper you don't.

awdafMar 12, 20172 votes

Half the issue with Promotional series is that you end up at 0 LP when you win, you should have a Net surplus of LP if you win games after 100 LP

awdafMar 12, 20171 votes

You're not understanding what I'm saying, if you are Gold 5 per say, and you have higher than normal MMR, you are going to be matched with people at Gold1/2, how will you climb from Gold 5 if your MMR is playing you against people of where you actually belong? You'll be stuck in Gold 5 for a lot more games than you need to be stuck.

The real way you would move up from Gold 5 is to get matched with people Gold 4/Silver 1

Maximum MordeMar 12, 20175 votes

You'll go up because if your mmr is higher than normal, you will gain more lp in a victory than you lose in a deafeat. You won't even need a positive win ratio to climb until your mmr drops back down to match your rank.

If rank was how the matchmaker made games, you'd be right, but mmr is the way it works. Rank is just a shiny overlay hiding the underlying mechanisms. If anything, rank needs to go and mmr be the front facing.

WimbledofyMar 13, 20171 votes

If you are gold 5 and you have higher than normal mmr and are matched with gold 1/2 that means you should be good enough to play with and against those people and maintain at least a 50% winrate and you will gain more lp than you lose because your mmr is high. If you think you can't climb by playing against people that are higher ranked than you then you wouldn't be able to climb by playing against people the same rank as you either.

It's really an advantage that you play against higher ranked people, not a disadvantage. If you play against people worse than you and easily win, you won't get much better and you'll only climb a little before your winrate becomes 50% and your lp gain/loss is exactly the same. If you play against people better than you, you get experience playing against better people and since your mmr is higher you will still climb even if you have a 50% winrate.

RyuyahMar 12, 20173 votes

Why not the other way around

Alex h8721Mar 12, 20172 votes

I've gotta strongly agree with this one, MMR system is all screwed up, I went on a winstreak to get to bronze 3, lost my 1st game once in b3, but then won 2 after, however apparently that single loss dropped my MMR to "Below average for my division/LP" so now I'm only gaining 16 LP per win, rather than having a more even LP gain/loss for wins/losses.

This makes it significantly harder to climb if you even lose just one game even if your recent winrate is very positive and it is very frustrating, but riot seems to want to make us have to play more games in order to climb so i doubt anything will change on this :(.

GayFluffyUnicornMar 13, 20171 votes

if your winrate is positive as it was in my case the matchmaker makes sure to put you into games with feeder and afks only. Got to dia 4 with 60% winrate and 5,0 average KDA on a large winstreak of 15 games+. From then on only losing and losing and losing every game someone went 0/15 or trolled or afked. Now im plat 2. Fuck this scam system.

franchise7676Mar 12, 20171 votes

agree

mærkMar 12, 20171 votes

Well arguably there are tons of 'smurfs' from Diamond+ who supposedly got ranked in for say, Gold 3 in this case, their MMR can flex really high as proven in some streamers who've come to meet Gold 1 in a Diamond game.

I wanted to test the MMR thing out and got a fresh account to Silver 1 and was placed in a Platnium V/IV/III ranked game.

Yes the MMR thing is kind of ridiculous but it also gives you quite an advantage to play out of your MMR/ELO so that if you truly aren't Gold 3 in that instance and or if I wasn't really Silver 1 on the fresh account, the system believes you can be placed higher thus I believe the reason you can skip tiers and or possibly divisions in your rank; i.e. from Silver V to Silver 3, 2, 1, etc. However it works.

awdafMar 12, 20171 votes

That's fine, if you are a smurf, it doesn't have to be defined as the MMR system we have now.

That smurf, if they are good enough will beat the people around them.

What is the point in climbing if your MMR states your are Platinum 3, but you are Gold 1, if you are repeatedly play with the people you belong with, how will you move up from Gold 1?

The real way you move up from Gold 1 is by playing people of similar skill, which is Between Plat 5/Gold 2

ValyrianBladeMar 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Instead of having MMR, why not just have leagues as your true ranking?

In the current system, if you are Gold 3 with a higher than normal MMR, you get matched with Plat 5s/Gold 1s, however, if I'm at Gold 3, and I get matched with people where I belong, how will I move from my ranking at Gold 3?

If you just have Leagues as your true ranking, and MMR is no longer there, say you are Gold 3, you will only get matched with people 1 tier above you, and 1 tier below you, aka Gold 2/Gold4, which would be a much more true representation of you being better than the league that you are in.

If you're gold 3 with plat5 / gold1 MMR, you'll gain >20LP per win and lose <20LP per loss. With a 50% win rate you'll eventually get to 100LP. 50-50 shot at your first series, then your subsequent series come with a free win. With a 50% win rate you'll get there.

Issue is at >Gold 1, there is no more promo helper. At this point MMR inaccuracy still applies (you'll gain let's say 25LP per win if you're a lot above your rank) but you could get stuck in a series for a long time (W get series, L W L W L, lose series, W get series, L W L W L lose series, etc... forever with a 50% win rate). It's pretty unfair here.

Now, going to pure rank system? No thanks. Maybe it's okay since I'll be playing against weaker opponents, but it still limits how fast the system can find where you belong. A challenger smurf on a new account will still need to get 5 more wins than losses to get each series, then win each series and never skip divisions. That's a lot more games than current, which means a lot more games where the diamond+ smurfs mess up your results as well.

Pure MMR system would be better in my opinion, but Riot thinks it eliminates the feeling of success that a rank system has. I disagree (no one feels huge success when they win a series, they feel relief they didn't lose it...).

I'd rather a compromise then though - have the current system but make rank reflect your MMR a whole hell of a lot faster. If I'm in gold 5 and playing with gold 2s, when I promote I should not have gone to gold 4, I should have gone to gold 2 (that's right, not even gold 3). Put me there right away. For demotion, you should demote immediately for everything other than X5 (excluding 2-4 games of safety after a won promo series). At X5 you should get protection until you would be (X-1)3 (so as soon as you drop below Silver 2 MMR [so at silver 3], you would demote from Gold 5 to Silver 1).

Put people at the correct ranks, yet still give us these relatively even matches (on MMR basis) and make climbing not seem like such a huge job. So when I go 19-6 over 25 games (and am only at 60 games total) I actually skip a couple divisions instead of just making myself have good LP gains but harder series to get where I belong...

ModKnightsKemplarMar 12, 20171 votes

MMR is still needed for normals.

Also, MMR helps account for people of different skillsets who happen to be the same rank. I don't think that removing it would improve things.

sobi999Mar 12, 20171 votes

I think the main issue will be longer queue time if your suggestions was to be applied. So maybe they can match bronze against all other bronze and silvers instead of 1 tier above or below as you mentioned.

XonraMar 13, 20171 votes

Hell no

I'd rather the reverse.

Scrap this "Feel good about how bad you are" system, and go back to flat out MMR. There was no frilly pointlessness, no "confusion" about "But I'm silver 2 why am I against gold 4" or whatever. Just "you have 1200 mmr, you are going against someone else with 1200 mmr"

It isn't perfect, but it was a HELL of a lot better than this silly mess.