Shyvana double nerf with Titanic nerf and Harold stack nerf seems heavy handed

PapaGreg21·Mar 11, 2016·27 votes·2,308 views

I am somebody that personally plays a lot of Shyvana and I will readily admit that she is too strong at the moment and is in need of nerfs. However, this seems like a lot thrown at her all at once. I am going to go out on a limb and predict that Devourer gets nerfed in the next patch or 2 as well. On a positive note, this usually means she is getting a skin soon!

Update: Hilarious that people think I am saying titanic is getting nerfed BECAUSE of Shyvana. While this is definitely (probably) not the case, it does in fact affect her and is a nerf to her current most popular build path which just compounds the overall nerfitude.

27 Comments

DrehirthMar 11, 20167 votes

Yea I mean wtf is this. They take nice baby steps with udyr but do this to her? Wtf?

CarryMar 11, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Yea I mean wtf is this. They take nice baby steps with udyr but do this to her? Wtf?

Leaving Udyr at a 54.5% winrate is taking nice baby steps? They gave him a slap on the wrist; he's still an absolute monster. That should not be in anyway an example of how to correctly address champion imbalance.

Shyvanna's nerfs on the other hand seem entirely appropriate. Her problem currently is that she can farm extremely quickly to a midgame powerspike of Sated + Titanic such that she gets those items with a substantial gold/item lead on her opponents. Additionally she is almost impossible to duel in the jg at any point. This makes it so she can access that huge amount of power with very little risk of the enemy team being able to do anything to stop her. The change reduces her early clear speed slightly and makes her easier to duel, which fixes the issue precisely. She will no longer have quite as large (read unfair) of a gold/exp lead if she's allowed to farm to her midgame power spike, and she will be slightly easier to duel/invade her early on, so there is some possibility now of preventing her from farming to her powerspike.

DrehirthMar 11, 20162 votes

They don't have a slider to set their winrate after nerfs dude, so nerfing 2 of his items and several of his base stats A tiny bit IS taking nice baby steps, it just so happens he requires more... like did you even think about what you said?

Nerfing 2 items and 2 abilities noticeably all at once isn't consistent or appropriate on someone who is causing similar problems

CarryMar 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

They don't have a slider to set their winrate after nerfs dude, so nerfing 2 of his items and several of his base stats A tiny bit IS taking nice baby steps, it just so happens he requires more... like did you even think about what you said?

Nerfing 2 items and 2 abilities noticeably all at once isn't consistent or appropriate on someone who is causing similar problems

Did you even think about what you said?

All I did was criticize the Udyr nerfs for not being severe enough (which you admit they aren't) and then said that the heavier-handed Shyvanna nerfs are more appropriate, because more slight nerfs have been shown to be completely ineffective in a similar abuse case, also the Shyvanna nerfs are well targeted to her specific problems.

Are you really suggesting that because the nerfs are not consistent with nerfs that were shown to be inneffective at fixing a similar problem, that they are inappropriate? So, because they failed to nerf Udyr they should intentionally fail to nerf Shyvanna? lol

DrehirthMar 11, 20162 votes

Of course I thought about it, thing is it was mostly unnecessary given how it's exactly what everybody else is saying in this thread.

Your criticism is a little bit unfair because they are nerfing some of his items again, nerfing/buffing gradually over time is EXACTLY how they should balance and you are the first I've seen to think otherwise.

They can always nerf more later on. They can't go back and revert overnerfs (or well they can, but i guess they can't because they don't).

KoechopheMar 11, 20166 votes

Idk why riot chooses to go REALLY slowly with some champions (it took them like 4 patches before they finally did something about Raka, still haven't done anything about Lux, though stuff is on the pbe) and then slams nerf after nerf onto others. I feel like there's a bit of favoritism there; whenever Riot wants to nerf Eve, it's almost always insanely heavy handed. Same goes for Elise.

In fairness though, the do the same thing with buffs. Like what they just did to Xin.

WadeWilson1337Mar 11, 20162 votes

Shyvana doesnt really have a dedicated playerbase other than a very small amount of players, so they really dont have to be careful how they change and nerf them. Thats why they were so, so delicate with Udyr as because of the 2G fanboys, he will likely never be hit very hard.

Xela SyabMar 11, 20161 votes

i see shyv atleast 1/3 of my games especially if anyone bans yi or udyr,

WadeWilson1337Mar 12, 20162 votes

Shes got less than a 10% pick rate so..

Deus ImperatorMar 11, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Shyvana doesnt really have a dedicated playerbase other than a very small amount of players, so they really dont have to be careful how they change and nerf them. Thats why they were so, so delicate with as because of the 2G fanboys, he will likely never be hit very hard.

Are you saying they only nerf hard champions nobody plays because their playerbase cant scream hard enough?

Oh wait. . . LeeSin

Celestial Lion12Mar 11, 20161 votes

back last season that was probably true but that was also true of lux now shes fotm and better pick shyvanna because she is op right now

AkesgerothMar 12, 20161 votes

You need to learn that Riot has pet champs. Champions who compete with their pet champs or worse, counter them, get harsh nerfs. Their pet champions almost always get compensation buffs if they get nerfs.

foinhasMar 11, 20163 votes

this usually means she is getting a skin soon!

i sure hope so! i mean, SHE CAN'T EVEN DANCE IN DRAGON FORM!!!

NahuiMar 11, 20162 votes

Maybe they want to see Shyvana in the top lane a bit more, not just a jungle pick. Considering her damage to monsters is reduced and stacking is harder, I wouldn't be surprised if she will be picked top a bit more, where she is still very effective.

Big LincolnMar 11, 20165 votes

lol?

nerf her early trading with Q and she'll be better top lane, where even Leona is outperforming her?

KetiMar 11, 20163 votes

Shyvana needs a long list of buffs to be viable top again. Shyvana is currently a terrible champion propped by devourer because she's the worst abuse case for it.

WadeWilson1337Mar 11, 20161 votes

Yi probably abuses it more than Shyvana, though Shyvana is a very close second or perhaps slightly above him.

ScarnMichaelScarMar 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Maybe they want to see Shyvana in the top lane a bit more, not just a jungle pick. Considering her damage to monsters is reduced and stacking is harder, I wouldn't be surprised if she will be picked top a bit more, where she is still very effective.

if they wanted to see her in top lane, they wouldn't have gutted her early game Q damage that was barely keeping her relevant in top anyway.

the only thing stopping every single meta toplaner from roflstomping a good shyvana into the ground was her E+Q combo. now it does substantially less damage until rank 4. gg shyvana top you're gonna get outdueled by EVERYONE.

MunchCrunchLunchMar 11, 20162 votes

i don't think the nerfs affect her much personally. she can still build botrk actually i think shes better with botrk but thats just me. at least to carry a game its better to go botrk but to fill a role titanic might be the safer way to go. 20 ad is a lot on the titanic. but shyvana q nerf. to me its too little i mean you can just max q first as her spells don't really mattter which you max first (well u never max e first). but you get my point. the 20% reduced damage. honestly it will drop her winrate but I don't think its noticable. remeber it used to be 20% bonus. so its not 20% less damage. it used to be 120 not its 100 percent to its more like 16% less damage on her W to monsters. i think she will still has the fastest clears.

JehtsMar 11, 20162 votes

i too love to play shyvana, always did and i admit she was a bit cheesy and needed a bit of nerfs. The thing is they nerfed her early damage, with the q spell nerfs, her clear with the w nerfs, her stacking with the devourer nerf and her damage output with the titanic nerf. That's 4 components of shyvana nerfed recently, 5 if we allow ourselves to count the fact that the botrk is now way harder to get because of the price tag.

That is like way too much in such a short time imo

chipndip1Mar 11, 20162 votes

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, has been complaining about Titanic Hydra, Sterak's, and Devourer. If they NERF those things, it doesn't mean they're nerfing them because of Shyvanna. You aren't that special. These things have been stupid in this game for a while. Champs like Yi and Fiora should be taking Ravenous Hydra, mind you, not Titanic.

Shyvanna's nerf specifically is due to the fact that her double-striking thing double procs shit while still dealing damage, so they reduced its damage so it's more based around procing items, which is fine.

MytaMar 11, 20163 votes

OP is just stating these nerfs affect Shyvana heavily as well - and those along with the Shyvana nerfs will probably destroy her.

The two things that make Shyvana strong are Devourer and Titanic Hydra.

They nerf Shyvana's early clear, nerf Devourer, and then nerf Hydra. This is like destroying her at all stages of the game.

Look at the two items built first on Shyvana right now - Devourer and Titanic Hydra. These are absolutely core on Shyvana. Since these are getting nerfs, Shyvana shouldn't also receive nerfs. (At least not until the effects of the item nerfs have been looked at)

69469238DEL1Mar 11, 20161 votes

I just starting maining her #rip

ToolooTMar 11, 20161 votes

Shyvana is ridiculously strong in lower elos. I've seen tons of them get a slow start and just snowball like hell once they get sated. It's almost as bad as Master Yi and if not worse in the right hands. She's tanky with her ult, has tons of damage/AOE and tons of movement speed.

Last night I played two games in row against shyvanas. The first we were ahead and once she got sated she started wrecking everything on fight winning 1 vs 3s. Our comp wasn't really good though with the shaco jungle (hate that pick). The second game I ask for a shyvana ban and a guy on our team wants her so we don't ban her and I even tell him I'll pick her for him but she ends up on the other team. She got 5-6 kills REALLY early and was huge. Fortunately we were better as a team and her team mates were pretty bad.

Sated champs in general are ridiculous PERIOD.

BTW pretty sure titanic is for champs like fiora too.

Sneakyy XDMar 11, 20161 votes

Nerfing underpowered champions is something Riot does now.

I am surprised it wasn't a mage getting them this time, though.

2B HentaiMar 11, 20161 votes

No No No its completely understandable Shyvana has been so strong that getting devourer + titanic and you're suddenly god tier. I dont see a problem with this I just wish they would solo nerf just shyvana and not just items

AkesgerothMar 12, 20161 votes

I have no idea why they put Titanic Hydra in the game after removing Atma's Impaler. The max health to damage conversion of the second was considered too OP which is why the item was removed. Titanic Hydra gives even better health to damage conversion, but while Atma's Impaler gave a token amount of armor and crit chance, Titanic Hydra gives a large amount of health, a decent amount of actual damage on top of the health to damage conversion, cleave and its active.

It's ridiculous.