New Swain is weaker.

dEAdbUs·May 4, 2016·3 votes·1,276 views

Ult delay - you can't use it right after Zhonia, you have to wait.
Q is now avoidable. Yeah it's easy to farm now with this skill, but it's pretty useless vs mobility creep.
RoA gives less stats. It was nerfed already, and now again. It always was and always will be #1 for Swain. Nerfed RoA = nerfed Swain. Lower cost doesn't really matter.
Zhonia gives less stats. #2 item for Swain. Nerfed Zhonia = nerfed Swain.

My brother was Swain #10 in the world in 4th season. And after trying new Swain he thinks that Riot did a mistake with this changes.

36 Comments

Icestar1186May 5, 20163 votes

The ult delay is a bug.

Crowe StalkerMay 6, 20162 votes

Technically a leave-over from an older build, it'll be fixed by next patch.

Icestar1186May 6, 20162 votes

Technically, that is correct. And technically correct is the best kind of correct. Regardless, the important part is that the delay isn't supposed to be there and will be removed.

Crowe StalkerMay 6, 20161 votes

Ironically it'll be removed far sooner than predicted even. Good hustle on Riot's part.

HyperiönMay 4, 20162 votes

The new Swain is just as good if not better than before, yeah the base stats are a little lower than previously, but they buffed his damage output like mad. His e no longer scales up as the game goes, rather now its from level 1. Also, he has 5 birds now, rather than 3, so he has more heals from that, and more damage. His itemization will be a little different, but he is still a very good pick. Also, you mention his Q being avoidable. That just makes it ever more important to land skill shots. Point and click is the stupidest thing in League, so I am glad they are slowly turning it into skill, rather than who has their flash + stun up first.

dEAdbUsMay 4, 20161 votes

Are you hard Swain main? How this itemisation can be different if he needs RoA as before? And RoA is nerfed.

Maybe point and click wasn't a good thing, but now it's just useless. How DOT can be a skillshot?

HyperiönMay 4, 20161 votes

No I am not a Swain main, but I played quite a few games of Old and New Swain, so I know that if you adjust your playing style just a little bit, he is still just as good, if not better than before. And the new RoA is great. sure it has slightly lower stats, but as swain who is hugely mana intensive with your ult in team fights, all the damage you are taking, some of it is returned to mana, for longer lasting healing/dmg for swain. ALSO it heals for every ability you cast. Sure it is only max of 25 HP per ability, but it adds up over time. Even if your brother is a swain main, that doesn't mean he won't like him when he gets used o his new play style.

OurLestradeMay 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No I am not a Swain main, but I played quite a few games of Old and New Swain, so I know that if you adjust your playing style just a little bit, he is still just as good, if not better than before. And the new RoA is great. sure it has slightly lower stats, but as swain who is hugely mana intensive with your ult in team fights, all the damage you are taking, some of it is returned to mana, for longer lasting healing/dmg for swain. ALSO it heals for every ability you cast. Sure it is only max of 25 HP per ability, but it adds up over time. Even if your brother is a swain main, that doesn't mean he won't like him when he gets used o his new play style.

I'm actually thinking that the Hextech ice thingie majigger might be the new ROA on him, but we'll see :P

HyperiönMay 4, 20161 votes

The new hextechs are pretty badass, I think it would be more of a support item personally.

dEAdbUsMay 4, 20161 votes

Less mana, AP, HP? This won't be better on Swain. Otherwise Swains never get RoA first. But they get. Because they need as much mana, AP, HP as they can get.

Crowe StalkerMay 6, 20161 votes

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/batman/images/5/5d/Joker_burns_money.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120815201522

it's not about the stats... It's about the Slow Active.

Okay but no seriously, item 3027 or item 3030 depends on what you want: Rod is definitely better scaling, but GLP-800 will give you more sticking power, making it easier to maximize Ravenous Flocks and Decrepify, as well as making Nevermove easier to hit. I think if you like getting item 3116 then you should get Rod, but if not, GLP is something to consider if you need to stick.

J EevoMay 5, 20162 votes

The hextech slowing item is actually recomended on swain. No idea about it's effectivness in relation to roa, i have to say i'm not a fan of it, but who knows maybe it is better than roa.

As fora the roa passive, it's worse than you think, 100 mana to 25 health conversion rate seems nice until you realize you usually have twice as much health as you have mana and your spells are at max levels 80/100/85/25+5 mana for QWER respectively, and they have cooldowns of their own so. A full rotation heals you for an astounding amount of 72 health, then you wait for QWE to come off cd while you heal off the ticking R for 6(+1 for every second after that).

You'd actually get more health by popping a health potion (which heals for 150)

EndlessSorcererMay 4, 20162 votes

How DOT can be a skillshot?

item 3070 Urgot E

Edit: Forgot about Cassiopeia QW

dEAdbUsMay 4, 20161 votes

It's not like a DOT. It's just lets you cast other skills. Like Poison on Cass lets you spam E.

EndlessSorcererMay 4, 20161 votes

They are skillshots which deal damage over time.

They may interact with other abilities in the champion's kit, but that doesn't make this fact any less true.

J EevoMay 5, 20161 votes

He actually outputs less damage, it's just split among more targets, if you're fighting less than 5 people the ult is worse (not that it's that bad I actually find it better than the old one) and new Q usually gets worse damage as well on the account of a smaller leash(you walk out of it faster than you'd walk out of the old one).

I still actually like the new swain, but the R delay has to go, and it might be nice to get Q to a slightly better state as it seems useless earlygame.

FovereMay 4, 20162 votes

Kind of liking the new Swain as well, he plays a little differently but compared to some of the other mage changes I feel like he got off light.

GuillotineCutterMay 5, 20162 votes

Lmao, even riot admitted that Swain and Cass suck ass.

dEAdbUsMay 6, 20161 votes

And people were downvoting my post xD

LaughingStaplerMay 4, 20161 votes

He reminds me of Illaoi now. He's strong if they're stupid and stay in his range but it's hard to do much if they don't choose to fight you.

dEAdbUsMay 4, 20161 votes

Absolutely.

Friendly RamMay 4, 20161 votes

But they gave him 20% cooldown on his core and hes now able to ult the entire enemy team.

dEAdbUsMay 4, 20162 votes

Swain never was really dependant of cdr. Riot probably didn't know it - that's why they added tons of cdr items into recommended items. Swain is only dependant of AP, HP and mana. Now he got less of it.

Zhonia gives only 10% cdr. What is another item? Abyssal? Important, but not core item. However cdr is useless, raw stats are much better for Swain. The real core for Swain is only RoA.

Friendly RamMay 4, 20161 votes

Cdr is not tantamount but with the ult cd increase doesn't matter. Swain is an offtank apc so abyssals is a great core. With the new passive on roa he has lots more mana and health regen in combat.

dEAdbUsMay 4, 20161 votes

Hp and mana regen means nothing if you have lower base stats, because you can be simply bursted. Example: ADC can regen like crazy with their lifesteal, but it won't help vs assassin's burst.

Friendly RamMay 4, 20161 votes

To each their own. As long as you don't feed the assassin they can't pop you as swain.

dEAdbUsMay 4, 20161 votes

No offense, but My brother was 10th Swain in world in S4. He's still amazing Swain player. His experience helps.

TomosimaMay 4, 20161 votes

Good.

OurLestradeMay 4, 20161 votes

Wait and see. It's been out for how long now?

dEAdbUsMay 4, 20161 votes

My brother is D1 Swain mainer since S3. Some people don't need to play 1000 games to understand what and how changed in thier main.

Meep ManMay 4, 20161 votes

Im confused what you mean by ultimate delay? Swain can still use Ult and them Zhonya's right? Q is avoidable, but Swain also can now combat people that he can't see and now has wave clear plus the max damage potential is increased. Not to mention his Q gets the full DPS boost of E at Level 2/3. RoA gives less stats, sure, but it's also cheaper and it's new passive synergizes with Swain a ton. Zhonya's is cheaper as a trade off and gives CDR. It's about the same, just nerfed active cool down. You get it earlier though, which is pretty big.

dEAdbUsMay 4, 20161 votes

R - Ravenous Flock: 8 seconds ⇒ 10 seconds.

New RoA passive gives regen, while Swain needs raw stats to survive burst. His sustain was already ok.

Swain never needed cdr. And as I said Swain doesn't need anything cheaper. He needs raw stats.

Crowe StalkerMay 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dEankL7j,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-05-04T13:40:03.888+0000)

Im confused what you mean by ultimate delay? Swain can still use Ult and them Zhonya's right?

Swain needs .25 seconds to ult on live right now. Devs admitted it was a part of a prior build that snuck through, they'll fix it in 6.10

Hullabaloo907May 6, 20161 votes

Riot already said they plan on giving him a buff. He has about the same amount of damage as before, but it's all on his q instead of e, so it's a lot less reliable

dEAdbUsMay 6, 20161 votes

I made this post before Riot wrote their opinion about Swain.

Juke For JesusMay 6, 20161 votes

Is no one gonna talk about the 1 second delay after a bird has hit an enemy? That's the WORST part of the changes and drastically lessens his dps on a single target. I'm very frustrated by that decision.