This one simple fix i believe would stop all the crying about adc being OP

HeartPalpitation·Sep 18, 2017·4 votes·336 views

Take away the ability to buy 2 energizer attack speed items. You should have an option of buying one OR the other not BOTH. if you want a second attack speed item get PD or runaans, a simple yet effective change that i think would completely fix the issues with adc's at present. OR take away the ability for the items to stack on 1 charge of energizer like it was before they changed warlords, since its too late to change the mastery as the new runes are coming out, just take away that ability to have both proc off 1 charge.

[zombie-brand-clap]

17 Comments

JbelsSep 18, 20172 votes

Just the very idea that you even suggested a way to tone down Marksmen got downvoted. Amazing.

HeartPalpitationSep 18, 20171 votes

yup that's the boards for you, i hate posting on these forums because people are actually unwilling to take suggestions or feed back. It is kinda sad really.

jwebb0113Sep 18, 20171 votes

so what do you want them to buy instead?

oh and the ATTACK SPEED just makes them do more attacks per second but if they lack AD then those attacks are kinda weak

adcs need a mix of ATTACK DAMAGE , ATTACK SPEED and PENETRATION to do their damage

HeartPalpitationSep 18, 20171 votes

everyone is complaining that adcs can 1 shot people and its because they can get procs of both energizer items on ONE attack causing them to do more burst damage than most mages can, adcs should be sustained damage not burst damage.

Juggernaut628Sep 18, 20172 votes

Only if they crit, but you're right in most cases. However, not every champion even builds one energizer item, so it wouldn't be huge. Twitch doesn't need both, and sometimes doesn't even get one depending on what he wants with Runaan's, and I know I build PD with Shiv on Sivir and sometimes Hurricane with Shiv on Jinx

jwebb0113Sep 18, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Drägons Räge,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d7glQX8G,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-09-18T04:47:48.669+0000)

everyone is complaining that adcs can 1 shot people and its because they can get procs of both energizer items on ONE attack causing them to do more burst damage than most mages can, adcs should be sustained damage not burst damage.

item 3094 does 50-120 bonus MAGIC damage based on level item 3087 does 60- 160 bonus MAGIC damage based on level ( can crit )

these two items alone are getting their burst by adcs having high crit chance ... the bonus magic damage isnt really doing that much damage (200 bonus magic damage ) but are you building MR vs ADCs ? NOPE cuz you don t think about the magic damage so that is how they are getting you.

neither of these items give raw ad... they give crit chance which increase the chance of CRIT but dont guarantee crit ... now

when it does grant crit with the bonus magic damage that is where the so called burst is coming from. but its a random # of when they crit... its just when it lines up that they crit, the bonus magic damage procs from both and the shiv bonus damage crits itself

so lowering the amount of AS items isnt the problem

ParoeSep 18, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Drägons Räge,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d7glQX8G,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-09-18T04:47:48.669+0000)

everyone is complaining that adcs can 1 shot people and its because they can get procs of both energizer items on ONE attack causing them to do more burst damage than most mages can, adcs should be sustained damage not burst damage.

Yes, blame the most balanced of the marksman itemization options. Its most certainly not the fact that crit is an intrinsically broken stat.

Marksman dont NEED crit. Multipliers to damage multiply each other.... they arent additive. Long ago 200AD was normal, and its slowly been rising until MARKSMAN have 300+AD, 70% crit, multiple forms of waveclear, 400+MS, 1.5+ASP, AND THEYRE DRAIN TANKS.

You know how to fix marksman? Remove crit entirely. Turn all crit items into energized items. Raise attack speed on zeal items to compensate.

They needed crit in the past, they do not need it now. The raw AD they have combined with such high attack speed is fine where it is; all crit really does is imbalance the game and create extremely short games based on which crit champ wins their lane first.

jwebb0113Sep 18, 20171 votes

jhin gets over 400 ad on a regular basis ... the only difference with isnt his burst or % hp damage for executes or guarantee crit is he is gated by an ammo system

ParoeSep 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

jhin gets over 400 ad on a regular basis ... the only difference with isnt his burst or % hp damage for executes or guarantee crit is he is gated by an ammo system

I dont see what that has to do with my post. Regardless jhin is a special case due to his unique scaling; a scaling, which by the way, is self contained without crit. You dont NEED crit on jhin because he has a guranteed crit on his fourth shot.

When i say remove crit i mean from items - champions with built in crit like tryndamere, shaco, and Jhin are fine as they are because in a vaccuum their crit mechanics are HEALTHY whereas on items.... Itemization crit mechanics are not healthy at all.

jwebb0113Sep 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I dont see what that has to do with my post. Regardless jhin is a special case due to his unique scaling; a scaling, which by the way, is self contained without crit. You dont NEED crit on jhin because he has a guranteed crit on his fourth shot.

When i say remove crit i mean from items - champions with built in crit like tryndamere, shaco, and Jhin are fine as they are because in a vaccuum their crit mechanics are HEALTHY whereas on items.... Itemization crit mechanics are not healthy at all.

but he has scaling with crit based on his passive :

EVERY MOMENT MATTERS: Jhin's Critical strike icon critical strikes grant him 10% (+ 4% per 10% bonus attack speed) bonus movement speed for 2 seconds, but his total critical damage is reduced by 25%. Additionally, he gains 2% - 40% (based on level) (+ 4% per 10% critical strike chance) (+ 2.5% per 10% bonus attack speed) AD as bonus attack damage.

so getting crit increase his attack speed and damage and has a guarantee crit on 4th shot and still ends up with +400 ad every game based on this scaling

hell i had over 700 ad as jhin with crit items due to this scaling in his passive

HeartPalpitationSep 18, 20171 votes

you understand that marksman arent the only champions in the game that use crit right? Gangplank Nocturne Rengar Shaco MasterYi , what do you want them to do with all these champions if they remove crit?

ParoeSep 18, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Drägons Räge,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d7glQX8G,comment-id=0000000000020001,timestamp=2017-09-18T05:25:33.011+0000)

you understand that marksman arent the only champions in the game that use crit right? , what do you want them to do with all these champions if they remove crit?

GP barrels dont need crit to function, and are cancerous to begin with. Nocturne doesnt crit to my knowledge? Rengar has an isolated crit mechanic which is fine as it is. Shaco has an isolated crit mechanic which is fine as it is. Master Yi doesnt need crit to begin with.

None of these champions remotely NEED crit as an item stat.

{quoted}

but he has scaling with crit based on his passive :

EVERY MOMENT MATTERS: Jhin's Critical strike icon critical strikes grant him 10% (+ 4% per 10% bonus attack speed) bonus movement speed for 2 seconds, but his total critical damage is reduced by 25%. Additionally, he gains 2% - 40% (based on level) (+ 4% per 10% critical strike chance) (+ 2.5% per 10% bonus attack speed) AD as bonus attack damage.

so getting crit increase his attack speed and damage and has a guarantee crit on 4th shot and still ends up with +400 ad every game based on this scaling

hell i had over 700 ad as jhin with crit items due to this scaling in his passive

... And? Youre still using a special case which is self-contained to further an argument that you have no real points for. Jhins crit mechanics are self contained and balanced on their own without outside sources. If crit were removed you know what would happen?

EVERY MOMENT MATTERS: Jhin's Critical strike icon critical strikes grant him 10% (+ 4% per 10% bonus attack speed) bonus movement speed for 2 seconds~~, but his total critical damage is reduced by 25%.~~

Bang. The only champions who NEED huge changes for the removal of crit are ashe (i posted a passive rework thread on that topic - shift some power into her secondary role please....) and Yasuo. Yasuo could use the rework to begin with and redefine his niche into something else... like a split pusher. Am i missing any champions that require crit but dont have it built in to their kits?

PrimaquariusSep 18, 20171 votes

Yasuo builds Armor Penn?

jwebb0113Sep 18, 20171 votes

hmm

he isnt an ADC/MARKSMEN is he ?

NOPE

PrimaquariusSep 18, 20171 votes

Attack Damage Carry

Yasuo builds physical damage and, like Marksmen, is considered a hypercarry that scales late game

It checks out

https://giphy.com/gifs/devopsreactions-I1U9DTjCqOF3i

jwebb0113Sep 18, 20171 votes

ok so riven is an adc ?

NOPE

the thread and comments are about ranged marksmen and their crit

so no he isnt an ADC

but by your statement any champ that builds ad is consider an adc

ParoeSep 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

ok so riven is an adc ?

NOPE

the thread and comments are about ranged marksmen and their crit

so no he isnt an ADC

but by your statement any champ that builds ad is consider an adc

uhhh no Yasuo is intended to be an ADC according to riot.