Let's talk shitty updates/reworks and accountability

Blåbæret··6 votes·542 views

So we all know how the class updates and beyond garbage mini reworks have worked out. Now the question is: Whose idea was this crap, and why didn't these dumb ideas stop coming to life before more harm was done?

My leading theory: Ghostcrawler. He did well in WoW to ruin classes with his "modernizing ideas". We all know how that turned out. People don't like change, especially not when these changes (reworks) are failures nine out of ten times. No one wants their champ ruined.

My real concern is when Riot will realize that Ghostcrawler is bad for the game. His ideas so far have been garbage. His unwillingness to revert these idiotic reworks only speaks to his massive ego. The game feels quite imbalanced, and these reworks are largely to blame. Often making previously balanced champions pick/ban or just leaving them in the dumpster. What kind of lead designer keeps on pushing this crap when you could see from the very first moment that it doesn't work?

You guessed it: Ghostcrawler.

9 Comments

Viral Vermin1 votes

Care to be a bit more specific? I'm feeling quite a bit opposite of your opinion here, but I want to hear you out first. Just, top 3 failed reworks and micro-changes that failed, will suffice.

Blåbæret3 votes

Really though bro? Leblanc Zac Sejuani Rengar Shaco

Take your pick. There's way more to chose from.

Mage update was freaking garbage and killed off any choice in AP itemization. Lethality - nuff said. Assassin update rofl. Rengo and LB. Good stuff. Tank update - What exactly was achieved here? Literally nothing. Nerfed most tank items for no reason. Broken shizz like stoneplate is all people build.

The truth is that these updates LITERALLY had more negative than positive impacts on the game. They were largely pointless and made balance even worse.

Viral Vermin1 votes

Ah! I see. How about this? I agree with you on "mage itemization" and the hilarious tank class update. After changing the champs, they added items that made changes to the champs pointless. There, on those things, we agree. However; the champions you listed have one thing in common, and it's not changes to their kit. Each one of those champs was OP and required nerfs. Each one of them. Shaco's shift in damage on his, Rengar's abilities and bonuses and ultimate, Le Blanc nerfs to damage, Zac CD nerfs, and Sej is slowly being nerfed as we speak. I don't think they failed with any of these champs nor the class updates. I would argue it's the items that have taken over at this point. The same thing for similarly classed champions, and it never varies. EVER! The champion changes though, seem a lot more fun. I talked to a lot of people about how the specific champion changes have affected game play, and it's largely positive. The way you and I agree about itemization being disgustingly under performing, is similar to the way I felt in previous seasons with my favorite champs. When the meta is too punishing, this game is really discouraging. Somehow, we're forced to play meta champs only, unless you're one-tricking or playing in normals. The reworks of these champions have really opened the champion pool. Every lane has more and more viable champions to match up against and bring some more unique game play and game style to the Rift. I think you might be adding the "itemization" issue with champion changes. Sion Amumu Galio Cassiopeia Mordekaiser Quinn Poppy Taric Yorick

These champion changes and updates, have been wonderful!

Support Position3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Viral Vermin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d57rhFIJ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-25T00:32:30.891+0000)

Ah! I see. How about this? I agree with you on "mage itemization" and the hilarious tank class update. After changing the champs, they added items that made changes to the champs pointless. There, on those things, we agree. However; the champions you listed have one thing in common, and it's not changes to their kit. Each one of those champs was OP and required nerfs. Each one of them. Shaco's shift in damage on his, Rengar's abilities and bonuses and ultimate, Le Blanc nerfs to damage, Zac CD nerfs, and Sej is slowly being nerfed as we speak. I don't think they failed with any of these champs nor the class updates. I would argue it's the items that have taken over at this point. The same thing for similarly classed champions, and it never varies. EVER! The champion changes though, seem a lot more fun. I talked to a lot of people about how the specific champion changes have affected game play, and it's largely positive. The way you and I agree about itemization being disgustingly under performing, is similar to the way I felt in previous seasons with my favorite champs. When the meta is too punishing, this game is really discouraging. Somehow, we're forced to play meta champs only, unless you're one-tricking or playing in normals. The reworks of these champions have really opened the champion pool. Every lane has more and more viable champions to match up against and bring some more unique game play and game style to the Rift. I think you might be adding the "itemization" issue with champion changes. Sion Amumu Galio Cassiopeia Mordekaiser Quinn Poppy Taric Yorick

These champion changes and updates, have been wonderful!

Poppy Never played anymore. Pretty garbage compared to her old kit. She actually needs another rework.

Mordekaiser LOL awful rework. SIMPLY AWFUL. Ruined this champion. Who's almost never played anymore Mordekaiser why because hes ez pz to kill and relies too heavily on stupid items.

Galio Whos always nerfs all the time. This guy this guy. Old galio was a million times better. In kit and looks. Not to mention his trash ego now... Good lord...

Taric Ge- He's garbo.... Good vs tanks. Seems good top lane recently. That's about it.

Cassiopeia I'm fun to play against right? yandere girlfriend intensifies

Yorick I heard you want a tower buff. HA.

Amumu No one plays me.

Sion No one plays me.

Quinn Lethality. Or I'm garbage take your pick.

Viral Vermin2 votes

Yeah, okay, just as I thought. So these "issues" you're talking about and how they ruined or practically removed a champion from play, aren't reflected in the statistics of their position and play number. Just because you don't like playing against Cass, doesn't make her too good or bad. It makes you reveal the fact that you don't know what to do against her. There's more. This, "no one plays me", is very off. Check the stats on played champions and their win rates. 3 of the champs I listed are in the top 5. I'm not sure what elo you're in, but it doesn't matter. Like Scarra says, "Play the Champions you like the most. If you play them long enough, the meta and counter picks don't matter." Consistent nerfs to champions, Galio, means that they are viable, but would remain viable with reduced values. When the damage or defense of a champion is reduced, with no regard for their abilities, than the champion is too easy to snowball and offers little counterplay. By nerfing the numbers, the skill required to successfully make an impact increases, and balances performance vs playability. I know people say the same thing you have about Morde. I HIGHLY suggest you go on youtube and watch his recent wins and lane/item placement, because he's a high skill powerhouse, and every time someone suggests otherwise, it's because they don't invest the time to learn his strengths and neither do their opponents. He has some pretty significantly overpowered stats and scaling. He reminds me of old Vlad, before the damage nerfs. As a Supp main in ranked, I don't see Taric often, but he's like the Morde of supports I think. He's hard to maximize and capitalize on his skills, and also relies on the ADC meta in addition to the Support meta. If they aren't conducive, he won't see play. He was picked a lot when Lucian was S-Tier. The more Caitlyn gets pushed out, and some later game ADC's come back into the mix, you'll see him again. You should be seeing him now with the Twitch and Tristana picks. They are ideal for him because they've got skills to help land his double stun in lane. Early Taric with and ADC that understands what to do, is devastating. Think early Leona, just without needing items. Poppy has already been making a return and appeared this past weekend in more than one region professionally. Quinn is currently the highest percentage winner in the jungle. (Gah! She's the reason I have to play anti-dive supports. SO ANNOYING!) I think you might be over generalizing the issue at hand, and therefore you're offering a poor solution. You're trying to fix something that isn't the problem, and you're not willing to put in the work to figure out what the actual issue is at hand. I think the viability and reworks require significant changes to items. If you notice after class updates and small additions and subtractions of items, OP champs are nerfed and items are too, at the same time. The problem then becomes, how do you reward the updated classes and their specific skill sets without OP items? The answer is, add more. I think we can all agree on that, but can you imagine adding more than 10 items at a time?! How long would that take to balance. The upcoming changes to runes and masteries seems to be a solution Riot thinks will ease the lack of itemization, by granting us the opportunity to alter champs strengths and weaknesses around our play style. You would be 100 percent correct on all that you have said, if Riot wasn't so forthcoming about their intentions for these changes and how they are applicable to the future of League. Without that context, Riot effectively ended many champ's viability, without a future in sight. However, since they have addressed it, and continue to tweak champions and get them to the sweet spot of skill vs reward, I would suggest playing your mains and reducing your champion pool. Perhaps there is too much, when you believe it is too limited. I can't tell you what to do or say for certain, except that player mastery of a champion is key to success, regardless of everything else.

LankPants1 votes

As much as I hate recent updates and I'd like Riot to take more responsibility for their updates this thread is completely and utterly counterproductive.

Attacking a single person, especially one as peripherally connected to the updates as Ghostcrawler is not an effective way to get your point across. The point of that thread was not to single out the person responsible for the reworks, that's a flawed idea in and of itself, there isn't a single individual responsible. More to the point though it's easy to find out the main person who did each of the reworks (none of whom are Ghostcrawler by the way). I can easily name Solcrushed for the Sejuani rework or Shrieve for the Zac rework but even then that wasn't the point of the thread.

It was a rhetorical question. It was never meant to be answered. It was a tool to point out the absurdity of the principle of the tank rework. You can easily see this if you just read the body of the thread.

Did no one question any of this during internal playtesting? I apologize if I sound extremely salty right now but this is bafflingly bad design to the point where I can't help but ask these kinds of questions.

This is the point of the thread. It's not an attack on an individual at Riot, rather an attack on the system that allowed this to occur and an attack on the principle of the tank rework.

Onandaga1 votes

Good news is that they are no longer doing class updates at least. Whether or not future reworks will be good or not is still up for grabs but Urgot's rework looks quite ok from the looks of it.

I just hope they do Aatrox right. He should stay a fighter/duelist IMO and I'll be mad if they change him into a support/tank.

Violet Fields1 votes

Wait a minute, Ghostcrawler is now working for Riot? ... Please, just please get rid of this guy.

Reaper Soraka1 votes

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