Worried about Cho'Gath

Big Lincoln··1 votes·667 views

i think riot made a huge mistake giving cho infinite scaling/HP-scaling damage

he's being balanced on a knife's edge when they load all his power into his ult and the stats that come with it. the biggest problem with his kit is that he's so unreliable and unrewarding; Q is hard to land in an increasingly mobile game, W is fairly short range and easier to sidestep than you would imagine, and his E is only good for pushing waves and proccing Rylai.

The R changes turned a snowball champ into a 'scaling' one, but Cho'Gath is piss awful late game because of how meaningless armor and big health pools become after carries get their item 3153 and/or item 3036. Additionally, the unreliability in his kit means that he can't get to the targets he wants to, so all that health will end up getting shredded as he tries to walk his way into a fight. However, now that his R scales with tank stats, I think it's become very dangerous to buff him at all because he'll menace the game with his Stoneplate tank build. If you improve his reliability in any way then he'll probably go straight into god tier. If his numbers are buffed (damage, cooldowns, w/e ) I don't expect he'll actually rise that much because, again, he's hindered by unreliability, not bad numbers, but he'll feel a lot more frustrating to play against. Additionally, the new R puts him directly at odds with his team's best interest. Because of the much higher cooldown and no reduction against creeps, Cho'Gath has to kill champions in order to keep scaling, which deprives his carries of gold that they need to actually get to their late game builds, which they'll make much better use of than Cho'Gath, who really starts to fall off past mid game.

My suggestion, don't try to push Cho'Gath into pure-tank builds. He doesn't have the kit to be a proper tank, and the Stoneplate-fulltank builds are both extremely annoying to play against and a disservice to Cho'Gath himself. He's almost an entirely cheesy pick, at that point, and he'll devolve into relying on his Flash, a Protobelt, or Righteous Glory so he can just nuke the enemy carry with the only ability of his that'll do any meaningful damage. Cho'Gath would be much better suited as he was before the changes; as a bruiser-mage, building a blend of AP and health with his AP comprising the bulk of his extra damage, and not just a RoA into fulltank, one-button champion. If you want to make him the late game wall then he needs to have the ability to thrive in a late-game environment, where anti-tank options are very common and also at their strongest.

I know that he's getting buffed next patch supposedly, but I really hope it's not a change that will keep promoting his Stoneplate build. I think going down that road will only make him much harder to balance.

6 Comments

Dark Nephthys2 votes

I understand what you going with, though I personally don't have to much problems with him as he is now. The only buff that I might like to see would be maybe an increase in mana/regen or lower mana costs (not by to much ofc). Even if they did some big changes and AP Cho becomes the more optimal build, I'd prob still play him as a tank. Maybe as a RoA + 1 AP item into full tank at most but I always liked him as a tank. As for his high cool downs, I don't really mind his CDs in the mid/late game because I always build item 3110 on him because I feel it's honestly the best item on him and a core item for him (at least for tank cho).

Now if you are suggesting them to nerf and put a stack limit on his ultimate but then buff him in other areas to compensate then I might support that, as long as they don't completely gut his ultimate and his buffs are decent.

Something like... Make the stacks max out at 10 (Keep the same amount of hp per stack/level) Lower HP Ratio a little bit (Say from 10% Bonus to 8% Bonus) Increase AP Ratio a little bit (Maybe from 50% AP to 60% AP) Increase base mana from 272 -> 302 Decrease Ultimate CD from 80 at all ranks to 80/70/60

This would be just a random idea on how I could see him being fixed if they were to take your suggestion. I don't really think he needs much changes but I wouldn't mind seeing him get buffed since he really doesn't feel like he is played very much.

Denims Wrath6661 votes

ive been maining cho gath and i wouldnt say its overloaded... yes its strong but its only strong if you're nomming just about every chance you can get. the scaling isn't that huge either. if i wanted a change on him, i'd like it if i could cast w while moving, or make it so toggling e gave a small speed boost for a second (like 10% for 2 seconds). i know some will say "thats stupid, fkn op, downvote that shit, but this game is stupid mobile nowadays. basically if you miss q when you're getting ganked, you're dead. plain and simple. im not even asking for mana changes, good ol rod of ages helps alot... but the lack of initiate if you don't have a protobelt with a rylais makes it almost impossible to land the q.

Dark Nephthys1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Denims Wrath666,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d05RT24A,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-14T06:20:34.588+0000)

ive been maining cho gath and i wouldnt say its overloaded... yes its strong but its only strong if you're nomming just about every chance you can get. the scaling isn't that huge either. if i wanted a change on him, i'd like it if i could cast w while moving, or make it so toggling e gave a small speed boost for a second (like 10% for 2 seconds). i know some will say "thats stupid, fkn op, downvote that shit, but this game is stupid mobile nowadays. basically if you miss q when you're getting ganked, you're dead. plain and simple. im not even asking for mana changes, good ol rod of ages helps alot... but the lack of initiate if you don't have a protobelt with a rylais makes it almost impossible to land the q.

The toggle e movement speed idea would be a little to strong, at least if you really did do it as a 10% for 2 seconds since his toggle doesn't really have a CD or maybe it was a 1-2 seconds between each toggle but unless they made his E have an actual CD then something like that wouldn't be smart or he could have perma 10% movement speed.

Now if you did something like toggling his e on will give his next auto attack the rage passive and have the toggle with a 1-2 second (in case it wasn't there) then maybe I could see it working.

Denims Wrath6661 votes

well the toggle itself does have a small cd itself, like a singed poison. im almost suggesting that its a SMALL speed buff. i wouldnt want the rage passive unless it was more than 10%. @ 10% its not enough to escape anyone with a dash, but it would help land the late game q's without having to rely on proto/rylai combo.

DJColdCutz1 votes

I'm another long time Cho'Gath main, and I think his E is definitely a place to give him some changes. It's a great ability for sticking around in lane - easier to last hit = sustain through his passive. Having it toggle on and off is generally pointless right now because the only time you really want it off is if you're hitting a turret near an enemy and don't want to take aggro.. which is maybe like once a game?

Denims Wrath6661 votes

thats why im saying it should give a speed boost if you toggle it. would give him some more strategy to it, and it would be your own fault if you forgot to toggle it back on. like here, if people didn't like the idea of its toggle giving a boost, give it the option of either doing its aoe damage, OR increasing the aoe of q and w.

More from Gameplay

More by Big Lincoln