Dear designers and community , maby it's time again make Evelynn AP assasin -> There is no DFG

XuWarrior·Jan 29, 2015·55 votes·3,275 views

Evelynn slashes a target 2 times, dealing a total of 70/110/150/190/230 (+100% Ability Power) (+40% bonus Attack Damage) physical damage. Evelynn then gains 60/75/90/105/120% Attack Speed for 3 seconds.

Her E was only changed , bc she could 2 -3 shot ppl with DFG . Maby it's time to revert that for

Evelynn slashes a target 2 times, dealing a total of 70/110/150/190/230 (+100% Ability Power) (+40% bonus Attack Damage) MAGIC damage. Evelynn then gains 60/75/90/105/120% Attack Speed for 3 seconds.

So we could go back to AP assasin Evelynn instead of Tanky Evelynn. I think she should rlly back to Old school

#discuss

53 Comments

sungoldJan 29, 20154 votes

what if she did this:

E - Evelynn slashes a target twice, dealing physical damage and applying on-hit effects with each strike. Evelynn then increasing damage against it by 20% for 6 seconds and gains bonus attack speed for 3 seconds.

KaipopJan 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

what if she did this:

That doesn't support an ap nor assassin playstyle

SunGoldJan 29, 20151 votes

they did the same to fizz and ahri why not eve then?

FoggyPawsJan 29, 20154 votes

Why does she have to be an AP Assassin? Have you tried player her as an AD Assassin?

FoggyPawsJan 29, 20152 votes

TFW I've been playing AD Assassin Evelynn and haven't had any of the problems people talk about all the time. I was 6/0 with 2 dragons by 18 minutes, and their jungler quit cause he couldn't keep up.

She's an assassin that takes some positioning and trickery, but she's not as bad as everyone makes her out to be. item 3714 item 3078 item 3153 item 3156 item 3031 item 3274 Works pretty well endgame, I melt everyone but their tankiest people. She also makes for an awesome objective stealer, oh they've got an inhibitor exposed? I'll just walk straight down the lane past all these minions, wait at your inhibitor for a wave to come by, Ravage (E) The first minion to walk past me, and Auto Attack the living hell out of the inhibitor, using Hate Spike to proc my item 3078 for more damage, dropping it in 5 seconds, then I'll casually walk away and turn invisible, and go sneak up behind your ADC in a fight.

SunGoldJan 29, 20151 votes

i have to say that i tried ad Evelynn and i like it a lot XD its no fun XD

FoggyPawsJan 29, 20151 votes

How so? The gameplay is exactly the same as AP Evelynn in essence, you run up to someone in stealth, R them for %Current HP Damage, E them (Which if you're AD will be doing %MaxHP Damage if you've got BotRK), and autoattack/hatespike them to death.

Not much different from AP Evelynn, the only difference is you're getting less damage out of Hatespike, and more damage out of her Auto Attacks, which because you're AD, heal you with lifesteal, if you've got it.

Also, if you've got the Challenging smite from item 3715 you're doing True Damage with each auto attack, which is doing even better because of the attack speed steroid coming from her Ravage (E)

SunGoldJan 29, 20151 votes

oh god gonna try all the things you said stacked, this will be fun XD

Skia AsteriJan 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How so? The gameplay is exactly the same as AP Evelynn in essence, you run up to someone in stealth, R them for %Current HP Damage, E them (Which if you're AD will be doing %MaxHP Damage if you've got BotRK), and autoattack/hatespike them to death.

Not much different from AP Evelynn, the only difference is you're getting less damage out of Hatespike, and more damage out of her Auto Attacks, which because you're AD, heal you with lifesteal, if you've got it.

Also, if you've got the Challenging smite from you're doing True Damage with each auto attack, which is doing even better because of the attack speed steroid coming from her Ravage (E)

You are miss understanding item 3715 . It does the true damage as a non-stacking Damage over Time effect, so as long as you auto once every 3 seconds you will get the max damage from it. AS and on hit have nothing to do with it.

FoggyPawsJan 30, 20151 votes

Well it will at least keep the duration up as long as possible with decent attack speed, considering you're more likely to hit them at the end of their 6 second "marked by smite" period.

RebonackJan 30, 20152 votes

Giving Eve high burst from stealth is a bad idea.

She needs to be focused purely on sustained damage, whether that be through AP or AD really doesn't matter. Honestly, though, she still needs another remake.

Skia AsteriJan 30, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Giving Eve high burst from stealth is a bad idea.

Rengar

RebonackJan 30, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Skia Asteri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cuTEnEH4,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2015-01-30T06:47:59.916+0000)

Because Knifecat totes hasn't ever been an issue, right? At least his burst from stealth is on a pretty hefty cooldown.

EV4LJan 30, 20151 votes

The problem with the sustain damage on an Evelyn is either you build damage go in and get blown up or your forced to be a tank and contribute nothing. Shes not an assassin. She used to be but has not been since her rework. Totally agree with you she need a rework, she can't even fill her own identity.

Her E should apply as mixed damage. In all honesty her R and passive are the problems to her kit.

RebonackJan 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The problem with the sustain damage on an Evelyn is either you build damage go in and get blown up or your forced to be a tank and contribute nothing. Shes not an assassin. She used to be but has not been since her rework. Totally agree with you she need a rework, she can't even fill her own identity.

Her E should apply as mixed damage. In all honesty her R and passive are the problems to her kit.

Thing is, Eve has always been a sustained damage focused champion. The most common OLD builds on her were Trinity/Tanky or Sunfires+Force of Nature. She was sustained damage before her remake. After her remake she was bursty due to her ult+DFG, but Riot was quick to neuter that play-style since, y'know, heavy burst from stealth is awful to play against. People only fondly remember her as a burst Assassin because she was absurd in that role before she got destroyed by nerfs.

Eve is a Fighter. Not an Assassin. She has no way to break focus on herself aside from running away. She's no Akali or Zed or even a Fizz when it comes to getting in and out of a fight. Riot could make her an Assassin by giving her a few seconds of true invisibility on her W active, but I suspect they know how much awful fallout that would cause.

Given the choice, I would make Eve's Ult into a single-target slow that gives Eve a potent OnHit magic damage effect on the blasted target. Then make the ability refresh on kills and assists. I wouldn't mind seeing the shield get replaced with her old Malice and Spite passive heal, too.

agbudarJan 29, 20151 votes

lets revert her ult changes then il be happy enough

but make it 20% max hp at all levels and reduce to cooldown while leveling it. that way she won't be too overbearing

SpecterVonBarenJan 29, 20159 votes

{quoted}

lets revert her ult changes then il be happy enough

but make it 20% max hp at all levels and reduce to cooldown while leveling it. that way she won't be too overbearing

Are you $#^&ing high?!

RikoZerameJan 29, 20151 votes

I play Evelynn a lot, and I still think that would put her on the short list of champions with 100% ban rates. XD

I really, really wouldn't mind if she got some %Max HP damage on her ultimate, though. Just 5% would be fine, scaling from 2% on first level, maybe. It would give her some okay base damage and let her do a little more to the inevitable bruiser or tank that will be sitting near any priority target she would ult.

cocacolalipsJan 29, 20151 votes

Evelynn is a complete mess right now.

Dual AP & AD ratios, dual physical & magical damage, but the hybrid items are dead, no matter what you buy, you essentially play half a champion, and unfortunately, she doesn't accomplish anything either way.

Lunar LightningJan 29, 20151 votes

Ya i wish we could go back to eve being an ap mid

GorzkeJan 29, 20151 votes

If she is intended to go for an Assasin role, she would need to be reworked a bit.

Assasins need to go close to the enemy, and kill that unit in a short period of time. Right now, her problem is that her main source of damage (Q - Hate Spike) is a hort cooldown, spammable skill, so it is not ideal to assasin a target.

Posible Rework:

P- Dark Frenzy Evelynn's autoattacks and spell hits on enemy champions grant her a flat movement speed bonus for 3 seconds. This effect stacks up to 4 times.

Q- Hate Spike.
Evelynn fires a line of spikes through a nearby enemy, dealing magic damage to all enemy units in its path. Each fourth Hate Spike will deal bonus damage according of target's missing health and heavily slow target's hit.

W- Shadow Dance Evelynn removes all slows affecting her and enters stealth for a moderate time. After stealths breaeks, Evelynn gains bonus decaying movement speed and ignores unit collision for a short time.

E- Ravage Passive: Evelynn restores a slow amount of mana with each auto-attack. Evelynn slashes a target twice, dealing magical damage and applying on-hit effects with each strike. Evelynn then gains bonus attack speed for 3 seconds.

R- Agony's Embrace Evelynn impales an enemy champion, dealing magic damage equal to a percentage of their current health and increasing all the damage it receibes by 20% for 6 seconds. All other enemy units in a 250 Radius receive half of that percentage as magic damage.

Evelynn siphons their pain, gaining a shield that grows in strength for each enemy champion hit and lasts up to 6 seconds.

This way she really makes the Assasin playstyle. She starts with Agony's Embrace on the priority target, followed by some E and Q, and finishing the game with the fourth Hate Spike. That is a 6 second window she has to assasinate a target, while enemy team has time to react the coming of an enemy, stealthy assasin (But not like Rengar , there is nothing to do once he jumps on you)

FoggyPawsJan 29, 20151 votes

You should try using BotRK and her E together. That's 16% of their Max HP as Physical Damage, plus the damage from her E itself, PLUS if you've got Trinity Force, you've procd and used it, PLUS an Attack Speed Steroid, making subsequent auto attacks do even MORE %Max HP Physical Damage, and with Trinity Force, you can just Autoattack/Hatespike after the initial burst to finish them off.

I'd say her Q is only her main source of damage if you're building pure AP, which is garbage right now. AD Evelynn is just better.

GorzkeJan 29, 20151 votes

Oh, yes, I know, AD > AP Evelynn. I was just saying that for her to be a really assasin (AD Eve is still a bruiser), her kit needs to be reworked.

FoggyPawsJan 29, 20151 votes

How do you get bruiser out of full AD Evelynn? item 3714 item 3078 item 3153 item 3156 item 3031 item 3274

Maw of Malmortius of course being fairly situational, just gives her a little protection from burstier targets, cause her ult sheild isn't always enough versus a burstier mage.

Bruisers are Fighters with more tank

With that build I can burst down any ADC in 3 seconds flat, less on those who don't see me coming in time. item 3284 with her W makes her harder to see coming.

GorzkeJan 29, 20152 votes

I used to rush Hextech Gungblade item 3146 early as it gives both sustain, AD , AP and an Awesome active to gank. Don't know now after it's changes. I may try her out again.

FoggyPawsJan 30, 20151 votes

That still doesn't answer how you'd consider Evelynn to be a bruiser, when she is clearly an assassin

SunGoldJan 30, 20151 votes

look at this built: item 3718 ; item 3091 or item 3153 ; item 3146 ; item 3117 ; item 3026 ; item 3056 or item 3025 kinda hybrid XD and random but do you think this works? XD

FoggyPawsJan 30, 20152 votes

Ehh, doesn't take advantage of her kit very well. I mean, yeah you become a little tankier, but at the cost of a lot of damage output. At least that's my 2 cents.

It's more AP-centric than I'd use personally, but IDK, try it for yourself.

SunGoldJan 30, 20151 votes

sure i'm gonna try it ^^

SunGoldFeb 2, 20151 votes

you were right your build works, the chalenging smite with warrior is really good. i tried with item 3025 but its allmost the same as item 3078 , the item 3057 and warrior upgrade + her E + on smited champion deals so much damage, and i found out that chalenging smite "reduces 20% damage" + her ultimate. i can say that her early game is kinda hard, i end up camping mid only and getting lee sin off guard. but yes your build is good.

FoggyPawsFeb 2, 20153 votes

Yeah her early game is garbage, I'll often start blue with help so I can have as much HP as possible, then skip Gromp and go straight to Wolves, then Raptors. I'll end up going home beat up to hell, and have to wait 10-20 gold ever since the jungle item cost change, but after that it's a bit easier. There's a lot of jungler farming 'till you hit 6 and can gank better.

Word of advice, you don't have to start item 3715 , I'll often start with item 3713 , and farm with it to help my clear speeds, then once I've got the money to do so, I'll go back, and swap it for to prepare for ganking.

The swap is free, so long as you don't get one of the 4 enchantments.

SunGoldFeb 2, 20151 votes

i got it ^^ thanks, good build ^^

GorzkeJan 30, 20151 votes

She is a bruiser because she can't sekure the kill properly. Alyhought she will delete the target really soon, all that damage is over time and counterable (I mean, she won't one shot anyone unless hyper fed, has no kind of CC nor real escape, and is easily killable), so it's not like Leblanc Talon Zed , who go in, kill and escape, regardless the amount of enemies near.

Evelynn goes in, deal damage in a short time, but can be shutted down (A Taric Stun makes you useless that second), has no kind of defense (Escape, invulnerability, stealth, etc) after she has popped out the ultimate and all the damage she can do in 3-5 seconds can be repeated any time (Her 3 second burst is ready every 7-10 seconds, and is totally spammable to any other target).

Real assasins, in the other hand, suck if they are on cooldown. Evelynn has always Q up and an awesome autoattacks readdy.

FoggyPawsJan 30, 20151 votes

That doens't make her a bruiser, you've just got to take positioning into account. If they've got a taric sitting there, don't just walk into them. Evelynn also picks on people that are caught out, which happens a lot. And who says you can't buy a Mercurial Scimitar item 3139 for that Taric stun, keep your eyes open and your finger on the active and you've got a better chance of getting away scott free. It's all about changing your build and your playstyle to fit the enemy team.

ZakennayoJan 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Oh, yes, I know, AD > AP Evelynn. I was just saying that for her to be a really assasin (AD Eve is still a bruiser), her kit needs to be reworked.

AD Eve is an assassin.. Better then most really..

Just cause she doesn't have DFG does not me she no longer holds the assassin title..

Champion SkinJan 30, 20151 votes

You do know that BotRK item 3153 deals 8% of CURRENT health not max health right? So Evelynn E would deal 16% of current HP not max (Though the activate is max health)

FoggyPawsJan 30, 20151 votes

Forgot about that, but hey at least it's good for bursting them down with her E early, considering you'd E them right away, it'd be nearly 16% of their max HP unless you were to ult them first, then once they've started to run you use the BotRK Active to hit them and steal speed.

AuryielJan 29, 20151 votes

They should change her ulti to a narrow, slow-ish skillshot that explodes on contact with an enemy champion and that deals flat damage That stupid tank ulti she has right now is a huge problem on her kit AND it has no counterplay whatsoever due to the range being longer than her stealth and it being instant And also stop encouraging Eve to be a jungler, she literally is always a problem when she's jungling Either she's way too weak because of her awful base stats or she's an overwhelming invisible bitch who makes everyone paranoid as hell

I sincerely miss Eve mid. IMO her Q made her very interesting to lane as or against, since her harass was purely based on her and her enemy's positioning and required both participants to be aware of the minions' health Also, faking to recall and hanging around the lane while your opponent pushes hard only to go in when their abilities are down and score a kill just felt really awesome :P

iamthegoatofwarJan 29, 20152 votes

Yes her ult also deals damage on CURRENT HP not max hp. Honestly I think it should be scaled down but do max hp for assassination of tanks/squishies.

SunGoldJan 30, 20151 votes

i kinda agree with you

AuryielJan 30, 20151 votes

I honestly don't see why it should do percentage damage, current or max

The current HP damage is an abomination on Eve's predatory, stalker assassin kit, but she should not be able to burst down tanks with high % max HP damage either

Making it flat damage would indicate that Eve is an assassin, not a tanky initiator, not a tank-buster or whatever else she can be right now

iamthegoatofwarJan 30, 20151 votes

making it percent of max hp damage means people just can't ignore tanky eve's damage, and have to build mr other wise her ult will be able to shred them. It's on a high enough CD to warrant max HP damage at all points in the game.

AuryielJan 30, 20151 votes

Why should Riot encourage tanky Eve in the first place?

That's not who she should be

Nuclear CorvidJan 30, 20151 votes

Evelyn can't be an assassin so long as her Q functions the way it does.

Healthy assassins can't have DPS.

Skia AsteriJan 30, 20151 votes

http://www.lolking.net/replay/na/1713653933

AranciaMechanicsJan 30, 20151 votes

Yeah, I really loved AP eve back then... I whish so much se could be the assassin she was instead of the sh*tty hybrid bruiser she is now. Even thematically being a bruiser does not fit at all with her appearance/lore. Why the hell a stealthy, female, deadly predator with such a passive should be a tanky frontiliner? For me it doesn not make any sense..

Revert her back to her state of AP assassin. +1

WullfJan 30, 20151 votes

let me ask: Why?

Teridax68Jan 30, 20151 votes

I think the main problem with Tanky Eve, aside from her ratios, is that right now it's the only way she can build if she wants to survive engages, due to her having no way of immediately exiting a fight beyond her W, which isn't exactly the best escape around. If activating Dark Frenzy turned Eve invisible for a second or two, before blending into her passive stealth if she's far enough from enemy champions, then she likely wouldn't need to build as many tanky items in order to survive engages, especially in teamfights. The reset-on-kill mechanic would also allow her to stealth-reposition in the middle of fights and pick off targets one by one without getting hard-focused all of the way through.

I like the idea of switching her E damage back to magic damage, as AP Eve is in a pretty bad state right now. Ultimately, I think she may need some more extensive gameplay work (her ability to completely ignore most wards isn't healthy, and her ult doesn't really fit an assassin), but just this change could make her a bit better without creating too many problems.

P.S.: The bonus AD ratio is 50% bonus AD per hit, and not 40%. :P