@Meddler , Riot , Someone who is responsable for Jungle - you created again UN- HEALTHY behaviour.

XuWarrior·Mar 26, 2015·77 votes·4,617 views

Jungle XP :

LEVELS 1-4 Unchanged LEVELS 5-7 3% more experience LEVELS 8-10 6% more experience LEVELS 11-18 10% more experience

That change as Main Platinum Jungler is bad . It created again bad/un-healthy behaviour.

Mid Laner takin my Chickens(Raptors) Top Laner Takin my Golems/Gromp Bot Lane takin my Golems/Gromp

And I can't tell them not cuze "they puttin me behind or bc of bufss" they just doing it 24/7. We had in the past the same problem

Solution to solve problem . VERY EASY TO FIX

Put that EXTRA XP to Machete. When you have machete you have 3 % more XP at lvl 5-7 and so on.

Discuss

80 Comments

SmknWdlMar 26, 201530 votes

As a personal rule i never take a jungle camp unless it's in the enemy jungle and our jungler isn't around, or it's lategame, the jungler is off on the other side of the map, and i just need a bit of extra gold. I also just had a game where the malz support flamed and then just afk farmed for the last half of the game, stole red buff and pretty much every other camp, all cause i didnt give him blue a couple times. I mean my score was awful but it's cause i would ping and we would go in and he'd just back out no ping or anything. Cost me promos... so sick of babies. Grow up people...

XtremeyMar 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

As a personal rule i never take a jungle camp unless it's in the enemy jungle and our jungler isn't around, or it's lategame, the jungler is off on the other side of the map, and i just need a bit of extra gold. I also just had a game where the malz support flamed and then just afk farmed for the last half of the game, stole red buff and pretty much every other camp, all cause i didnt give him blue a couple times. I mean my score was awful but it's cause i would ping and we would go in and he'd just back out no ping or anything. Cost me promos... so sick of babies. Grow up people...

if your score was pretty aweful how is it his fault that you lost promos? hoping to get carried by bot lane?

SmknWdlMar 26, 201513 votes

no, bot lane adc afk'd with some bug/glitch that made him not use abilities and the malz support treated himself like the fuckin prophet (well technically malz is the prophet of the void but that's not the point) And every time i tried to do something id ping and then my team would be like ok then just back out of a 2v1 for no reason... it was really frustrating. So i was going in based on team help, then the help wouldn't come. Can you understand?

MalzaharAnyLaneMar 26, 20152 votes

Sounds like a big fat nothing of relevance to the thread, tbh.

SmknWdlMar 27, 20154 votes

yeah it kinda is lol

XuWarriorMar 26, 20159 votes

I understand why Riot put extra XP now . But it back-fired totally . Some ppl understand that they should not put me as junger behind. But there are 13223231 players who saw that XP buff and they have 1 tunnel vision FARM FARM FARM jungle

LordDarkshaydeMar 26, 20158 votes

As a general rule my teammates don't take my camps til later in the game anyways. Also, the only camp I really ever state as off-limits to my team is raptors cause sweeping for nearby wards an stuff and for the most part they respect that wish (or at least don't kill the big one). I could care less if they get a little extra gold here and there.

DroogzyMar 26, 20157 votes

Jungler will always be a meta, regardless of whether or not it is forced, if they removed smite, they'd would just make the camps killable without smite. The ability to apply map pressure will forever be far more valuable than having two duo lanes. The problem here is that for us junglers, which seem to happen more and more lately, are laners seemed to think they are entitled to camps which belong to junglers, thus making it more and more difficult to stay relevant in a game.

The number of games where I'm getting not only counter jungled by the enemy team, but by my own teammates is ridiculous. I had one game where everyone on my team was level 10 and taking my camps and I was level 7, of course freaking out if I tried to take some minions from the lane, but its perfectly okay for them to set me back even harder.

These buffs need to enforce that these camps do not belong to the laners and are incredibly detrimental and selfish should a laner choose to take a camp for themselves.

I had an Ahri literally cussing and swearing at me because I took the blue for myself when I was severely behind, she proceeded to try and clear every single one of my camps, because "muh blue." Well if it is your blue, you better be bringing fucking smite or something then, you're four level ahead of me, you refuse to answer any calls of help when your mid starts roaming into my jungle, and now you expect me to be okay with you taking all the camps for yourself, all because (muh blue). It's starting to become a ridiculous problem.

But yeah...if this doesn't change, I'm quitting jungling, its getting beyond absurd that it seems every game is a 1 vs 9 for myself.

KaisadiIIaMar 26, 20156 votes

I had an Ahri literally cussing and swearing at me because I took the blue for myself when I was severely behind, she proceeded to try and clear every single one of my camps, because "muh blue."

As a main mid, I'm sick of people thinking that blue is for the mid laner. It isn't. Blue is for the jungler. If you need it, and he can afford giving it up to you, then you can take it. But still it's the jungler the one that decides who takes the blue.

air tigerMar 26, 20152 votes

I always give jng praise for letting me have/helping me kill blue.. but that's because I don't go in with the assumption that anything is "mine." Maybe people watching the LCS have normalized mid getting blue, so they get angry when their expectations aren't met. In my experience, we are a team, and if the jng takes blue it's probably bc the jng needs blue. If the jng gives you blue, it's prob bc the jng thinks you are capable of putting it to good use to help the team. Tldr: Team game, communicate.

All that said, as mid.. I fucking love blue! THANKS JUNGLERS <3

Ariel the CruelMar 27, 20154 votes

Liss is my primary Mid (followed by Viktor and currently Azir). I can get by just fine without blue most games.

I can't help but laugh when I see an enemy manaless mid (Zed, Yas, etc.) come back with it though. Yay, you just gimped your jungler for the sake of a little CDR. I can't wait till mid game.

(Disclaimer: I'm a support main. I don't mid very often.)

LittleBlastMar 27, 20151 votes

Blue on yas is 100% worthless, cdr only reduces his w and r.

S H A Y C 0Mar 27, 20151 votes

What they dont understand...is they arent Bjergson or Faker...LCS junglers are more than happy to feed an LCS hyper carry superstar midlaner a blue buff because they can win the entire game on their own...our midlaners however can not.

Point 2: Math - yeah its hard for most people but let me make it simple

Jungle item gives you more gold for killing large monsters...more gold is greater than less gold...jungler takes jungle camp...gets more gold than anyone else on the team....more gold=greater gold lead - - - > which translates into more winning...winning = good

Spacesuit SpiffMar 27, 20151 votes

Yep. When the lanes all lose they just each sit on one of the camps, never mind that they leave nothing for the jungler. Then when I make the mistake of trying to save my red smite for champions, Blitz steals wolves with his ult and Draven steals Krugs with his ult.

Sneak DogMar 27, 20151 votes

If mid is an Anivia/Kassadin/Ziggs/Swain, then you should be giving away blues after the second, sometimes even the second. It's simply better for the team. Otherwise, they should be fine.

alcatrazEscapeeMar 27, 20151 votes

Giving the mid laner blue is done in LCS because usually it is better for the team, the LCS pros know how to use blue buff and preform to their highest capacity. IF you give your mid laner blue, you do improve your chances of winning the game. Riot also changed it so just donating the buff gives them less xp now, since the mini creeps are worth more.

HOWEVER,

In Solo queue, you have to convince me (as a jungler) to give you blue. I put more faith in my ability to get all three lanes ahead, then your ability to dominate your one lane. Its in my jungle, its my creep, I decide. And really. Your Q, or my smite?

One of my personal "really really hates" is when an enemy zed decides to take blue when I'm away or in base. Its the only energy user I consistently see taking blue, and I think that's because of LCS. I'm playing as a mana using jungler, and I can use that so much more than you can.

DroogzyMar 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Giving the mid laner blue is done in LCS because usually it is better for the team, the LCS pros know how to use blue buff and preform to their highest capacity. IF you give your mid laner blue, you do improve your chances of winning the game. Riot also changed it so just donating the buff gives them less xp now, since the mini creeps are worth more.

HOWEVER,

In Solo queue, you have to convince me (as a jungler) to give you blue. I put more faith in my ability to get all three lanes ahead, then your ability to dominate your one lane. Its in my jungle, its my creep, I decide. And really. Your Q, or my smite?

One of my personal "really really hates" is when an enemy zed decides to take blue when I'm away or in base. Its the only energy user I consistently see taking blue, and I think that's because of LCS. I'm playing as a mana using jungler, and I can use that so much more than you can.

I almost never hand the blue over to a Zed, I had one Zed flip out apparently because I refused to give it to him, even though I was playing as Cho'Gath, now who do you think is going to benefit from that blue more? Is this really a question?

dEAdbUsMar 26, 20153 votes

It's so obvious solution that the Riots probably thought about it, but they have reasons to do it that way as we see it now.

TrylobyteMar 26, 20153 votes

This is just one of those things that I think has been going on for a long time already but people are just now noticing it because the patch notes drew attention to it. Mid lane taking chickens has been common for a while now, ADCs practically expect red buff late-game, blue buff goes to mid and has for several seasons, and any ADC that can take Gromp over the wall will probably do so.

TheFrozenIslesMar 27, 20151 votes

I agree with this. Another thing I notice with this season. With champs like Sion and Maokai. They can easy take the chickens or wolfs and get to top before they lose any minions. A new thing I have been seeing in pro doing. Is just getting just Flask and get chickens. With that they can get some thing like cloth for the lane.

The sad thing is no matter what Riot does this sort of thing will all was happen in pro. So then people think that the way to play and do it as well.

ForPortalMar 26, 20153 votes

I don't agree with you. Riot's already pushing "Smite or GTFO" pretty hard, and I don't like the idea of them using even more brute force solutions to keep the meta in one place.

If you need extra gold and extra buffs and extra XP and DoT and regen, all locked behind one summoner spell to keep the meta where you want it, maybe you need to think about whether there's really a place for a dedicated jungler in the game.

Troy242621Mar 26, 20153 votes

I don't agree with you. Riot's already pushing "Have 2 solo laners or GTFO" pretty hard, and I don't like the idea of them using even more brute force solutions to keep the meta in one place.

If you need more gold and extra XP than any other position and rarely ever being attacked by your gold/XP source, all in one place to keep the meta where you want it, maybe you need to think about whether there's really a place for two dedicated solo laners in the game.

ForPortalMar 26, 20151 votes

You can repeat my sentence structure, but you clearly do not understand it.

There is no mechanic designed to brute force the 1+1+2+Jungle meta into existence, except those pertaining to Smite. The closest you would be able to find is the mechanic regarding XP sharing, which exists not to force the meta to stagnate but because it is necessary for game balance in team fights.

Troy242621Mar 26, 20153 votes

Satire is a perfectly valid and universally accepted method of showing disapproval of another's opinion. I DO understand it, and I was being facetious.

My point is that you're limiting the scope to mechanics encouraging certain role compositions, and the point I was trying to make is that because of this limited scope your premise is fundamentally flawed. There are more methods of enforcing a meta than pure mechanics. Raw number values, pressure and so fourth are all examples of other factors that contribute.

Riot's "Enforcement mechanics," as you put it have a purpose that isn't meta enforcement. It is to prevent their changes aimed at improving the jungle role. This is in theory. In practice it was benefiting solo lanes more by them farming the newly buffed jungle monsters which was the inverse of their intent. The only thing they brute forced was their intentions by preventing their newly implemented buffs from overpowering the solo laners which had a direct impact on power curves due to more gold being accessible to laners. Faster gold accumulation has a tendency to do that.

That is why I disagreed with your presentation of their intent.

SammystormMar 26, 20151 votes

Satire is fine. What you did was sarcasm and poorly done sarcasm at that. You just lazily copied him and changed a few words that isn't satire. Sarcasm is only accepted really in the USA most other places don't really get it.

You could have just posted this post saying why you disagree and tried to facilitate a healthy discussion. Instead you basically attacked the other poster making it hard for any conversation to take place. You make a couple of assumptions that just tend to irritate and annoy people in your first post and they really do not help anything. Basically your first post was a waste of time for just about everyone.

Troy242621Mar 26, 20154 votes

Your attempt to attack satire was completely baseless. Johnathan Swift wrote A Modest Proposal and it's one of the most acclaimed examples of satire, and he was Irish.

At no point did I attack, reference or even include the poster in my comment. What you're doing is straw man and ironically personal attacks by slinging insults.

SammystormMar 26, 20152 votes

Satire it self can be humorous. However you didn't particularly use satire. Satire's definition is "the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues." compared to sarcasm "the use of irony to mock or convey contempt." Your post was thinly veiled sarcasm. Also you didn't read my post apparently because no where was I attacking satire. I even started out with "satire is fine". My post was more about sarcasm and how it relates to your post. including reference or other wise naming the poster is irrelevant when you specifically reply to that poster. Also how does "A Modest Proposal" have to do with anything in this conversation?

Troy242621Mar 26, 20153 votes

You're trying to mislabel my satire. Revising the words and adopting the structure to take on a converse meaning in poetry is considered satire, and this is precisely what I have done.

As for the rest I think you simply do not understand what I am telling you. You threw out your point on ad hominem because you knew you had no backing for it then just called it sarcasm because you don't like what I said.

Your entire argument is on the premise that it is that it's sarcasm and not satire, and you haven't sufficiently proven this. You cannot include such an assumption underlying your argument until it is proven, and you have not.

SammystormMar 26, 20152 votes

Your post was not poetry. Since it isn't poetry the rules do not apply to your post. You reworded a few words with the express purpose of mocking the original post. Which is the definition of sarcasm. So tell me. How is it satire? Just because you think it is satire does not make it satire. Here I will show you what you did which satire or sarcasm was rude.

You're trying to mislabel my Sarcasm. Revising the words and adopting the structure to take on a converse meaning in poetry is considered satire, and this is precisely what I have not done.

As for the rest I think you simply do not understand what I am telling you. You threw out your point on ad hominem because you knew you had no backing for it then just called it satire because you don't like what I said.

Your entire argument is on the premise that it is that it's satire and not sarcasm, and you haven't sufficiently proven this. You cannot include such an assumption underlying your argument until it is proven, and you have not.

Troy242621Mar 26, 20153 votes

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Daedalus871Mar 27, 20152 votes

I like how a comment about Meta enforcement turned into a grammar debate.

Troy242621Mar 27, 20152 votes

Red herring is more like it >.>.

EnderForHegemonMar 27, 20152 votes

[/popcorn]

TheFrozenIslesMar 27, 20151 votes

Give some of that. I have to say this post are the most fun.

iainB85Mar 26, 20153 votes

Mmm, roasted chickens.

AquariusGineMar 26, 20152 votes

I don't know..

Sometimes I fall behind in mid and I really need those extra XP

Especially on champs like Akali and LB, it's really hard to catch up if you fall behind.

PrinceArchieMar 26, 201518 votes

If your jungler is behind and needs to farm while your barely breaking even would you allow him to take an entire wave or two just to catch up?

Troy242621Mar 26, 201518 votes

You kiddin' me? Some laners ping spam me when I just last hit them when they're out of lane and don't have Teleport. This isn't all laners or even most laners but sometimes I get that one special moron,...

Some sane laners actually ping to tell me they're backing soon so I can adjust my clear to be there when they back so I CAN last hit, and I love having sane players like that but holy sh*t is it annoying to be told OMG DON'T PUSH LANE when I'm just autoattacking one minion that has 15 health once. -__________________-.

But it's fine when my chickens are taken. I didn't want the free sweeper anyways. If you're going to take it and I'm right there, at least let me smite it,...

SammystormMar 26, 20152 votes

most laners do this because quite often a jungler well come in with no understanding of lane machanics and partly push waves or aoe clear everything seconds before you get there and things like that.

Nameless VoiceMar 26, 20154 votes

I'm a bad person. When I hold lanes, I only last-hit, unless I can push a whole wave into the tower before the laner comes back...

... but sometimes, after one too many annoying retreat ping when I'm last-hitting, I'll just have enough and go push out the wave for them.

VerxintMar 27, 201513 votes

I'm not gonna lie, if I'm csing perfectly outside someones tower and just tanked 120 HP from a creep wave to stop the tower from pushing back, taking time out of my jungle pressure and risking my other lanes being ganked so you miss minimal xp, and you ping me to stop pushing your lane, i will spitefully clear every single creep and the next wave and then proceed to never gank you. Yes, I'm an asshole. But don't bite the hand that ganks for you.

Meeks011Mar 27, 20151 votes

Yeah or "Can you hold for me?" and grant you laner privileges in their lane a short time.

WullfMar 27, 20151 votes

I think it kinda depends on what champion is in jungle and what champion is in lane. And also what your team needs at that moment.

Lets say that you lack DPS in your teamfight, you will ofcourse let your ADC take some jungle to finish FD.

Or you lack tank in your team. Then it would be wise to let your tank jungler take that wave in your lane.

etc. etc.

NinjaToad99Mar 27, 20151 votes

For me? Yes. If I'm out of lane the jungler is free to take farm, especially if they are a jungler who can do a lot of damage when ahead. Although me doing that is probably not actually smart...

BiffoloMar 26, 20157 votes

{quoted}

I don't know..

Sometimes I fall behind in mid and I really need those extra XP

Especially on champs like Akali and LB, it's really hard to catch up if you fall behind.

Ask. Dont just take, ask. Taking my shit without asking is a 1 way ticket to me ensuring I have smite up to make sure you never get a blue/red/minion wave. If you ask, I will gladly give it if I can spare it.

ScrimshäwMar 26, 20158 votes

"i'm behind, so let me put my jungler behind as well"

AbyssphereMar 26, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Treasure Goblin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZvThcWG3,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2015-03-26T21:37:52.419+0000)

"i'm behind, so let me put my jungler behind as well"

This. Generally taking a couple of camps really won't do anything for you, especially as you can miss your own minion wave as a result. But it will deny the jungler gold and exp, so you're really not helping anyone.

Spacesuit SpiffMar 27, 20152 votes

If the laners are gonna poach they're gonna poach, you can't reason with them based on a small thing like that. I mean, I just had a game where my team took 3 entire sets of the jungle (including our trolling blitzcrank stealing a camp with his ult bc I was saving my smite charges). Ironically, the resident "cry hysterically about everything kid" proceeded to flame me for being behind (and not going for a double FH build. And pretty much every nonsensical thing you could imagine).

TerchioMar 27, 20152 votes

Gank-snatching can be quite irritating... Seriously, I am part of a worthless jungle that I can't farm properly, even with the "special jungle item". Why is a laner working better with my jungle creeps if they haven't set up their runes, masteries, and items to face them? If you even take a shred of damage from the monsters, you better never die in that lane!

And, let's say you really are behind and have nothing to do in a pushed lane. Why are you pushing the lane so far that you are vulnerable, I can't gank, and then turning around and taking my food? No... Just no. If I let you, I'm only being polite so you don't rage back at me and tank both our focus (foci?).