I officially hate playing my main

Jbels··33 votes·2,639 views

I can't even play Sion anymore. There's too much shit in the game that counters him outright. Caitlin and every mid laner in the game are literally untouchable, there's so much burst and not enough tankiness that I feel like I melt in teamfights before they even begin, and the worst part is that I can't even zone people anymore because they just flat out don't fear me. I'm a walking meatbag with one semi reliable CC and one unreliable one, and below average base stats to make up for an infinite stacking mechanic.

I can forgive tanks having less damage. Yes, we did too much damage. You nerfed that. Claps all around. But why in the hell did you nerf all of our defensive stats on items too? This seems like a huge either or situation, not both at the same time. Remember when you said that Black Market Brawlers wasn't coming back because it was too much change all at once? Don't you think this is just a little too much?

You know what, I'm gonna pro con this. Pros:

  • Tanks were dealing too much damage too reliably, and now that they don't, other classes have much more breathing room

  • Nerfing tank damage has also lead to more variety in top lane

  • Finally a third MR option, which is something many tanks have been needing for a long time, and the itemization is less generalized

  • Rift Herald is finally worth fighting over, and isn't an afterthought objective

Cons:

  • Most tanks die faster now than they ever have, and because of this, do not impact teamfights with CC as much as they should be doing.

  • Damage dealers feel oppressive because tanks are no longer strong enough to keep them in check, leading to an overall more negative experience for people who are behind.

  • MR Itemization might be less generalized, but it's too much so. It's become so narrow that there will be situations where only one of them will be more useful than being just a stat stick. Abyssal Mask does not feel good to purchase, and Adaptive helm is not always a solid answer to the magic damage threat on the enemy team.

  • Fighters are now more prevalent than they should be, and tanks cannot lane well against them. This is especially heinous when you consider that there are fighters that build tank items and have a much higher impact on the game.

I'm not going to say this was the worst class update, because honestly it didn't feel like a class update. It felt like a group item nerf for tanks, with justification in the form of 3 reworks for JUNGLERS, not top laners, JUNGLERS (two already junglers, and one pushed in that direction by his rework), with zero respect given to the fact that there are a lot of tanks that are top laners, and that this rework was unfair to them

91 Comments

JhomasTefferson12 votes

This isn't a sion issue. It's a tank issue. Damage destroys tanks. You can't itemize against damage anymore. Into an all ad team i can play malphite, build full armor and still be destroyed if i Ult into the enemy team and my shit team doesn't follow up. I'm not saying i should last forever, but 2.25 seconds shouldnt be a timeframe of death for a full armor malphite into a full ad team.

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

This isn't a sion issue. It's a tank issue. Damage destroys tanks. You can't itemize against damage anymore. Into an all ad team i can play malphite, build full armor and still be destroyed if i Ult into the enemy team and my shit team doesn't follow up. I'm not saying i should last forever, but 2.25 seconds shouldnt be a timeframe of death for a full armor malphite into a full ad team.

I agree. I feel a severe lack of testing went into this tank update that probably would have revealed these issues before they ever hit PBE

Thefrostyviking2 votes

{quoted}

I agree. I feel a severe lack of testing went into this tank update that probably would have revealed these issues before they ever hit PBE

Dude, it's not a tank issue.

Zac is the games most OP champ currently, he´s even got the title MR free win.

Because he is busted.

Even slightly better than ivern.

Then we have Galio, Gragas, and even Braum for tanks that are currently doing quite well.

Sejuani was also extremely OP but now she struggles due to nerfs and unsatisfying abilties, she just lacks the ability to handle early invades which are popular since a while ago.

Most tanks currently are either strong or just balanced, Sion is one who due to being excessively strong has been given the azir treatment altho to a lesser degree.

Cho is also busted.

Thus i say, tanks are not problematic, it's you who is doing something wrong.

Jbels2 votes

{quoted}

Dude, it's not a tank issue.

Zac is the games most OP champ currently, he´s even got the title MR free win.

Because he is busted.

Even slightly better than ivern.

Then we have Galio, Gragas, and even Braum for tanks that are currently doing quite well.

Sejuani was also extremely OP but now she struggles due to nerfs and unsatisfying abilties, she just lacks the ability to handle early invades which are popular since a while ago.

Most tanks currently are either strong or just balanced, Sion is one who due to being excessively strong has been given the azir treatment altho to a lesser degree.

Cho is also busted.

Thus i say, tanks are not problematic, it's you who is doing something wrong.

Cho'gath isn't a tank by Riot's definition, and Zac, Sej and Galio are not representatives of the entire tank class. That's like saying that just because Syndra is super strong right now all mages are in a good spot. Gragas for some reason is allowed to do damage and have hard CC. Every other tank is suffering

sit kid1 votes

That's just Riot's flavour of the month.

Gragas, Galio, Zac and Sej are only good because they're strong individuals; totally agree with you on this one. Although, pre-changed items definetely weren't great either, I feel like there may be some sort of middle way.

Remember, warmogs is still in the game - and it seems like a good source of the HP you needed. I don't play too many tanks myself (mid main), so these are just what I'm assuming.

But yes, i feel like i do a bit more damage than i normally do to tanks these days

Big Lincoln2 votes

sej is only good because having that much CC means she can't possibly be bad

Wet Dryman2 votes

Gragas has even more CC and had for a long time and yet he still had episodes of being trash tier (44% to 47% win rate with 2% pick rate).

GigglesO1 votes

{quoted}

so these are just what I'm assuming.

So I don't want to be mean in saying this, because you were kind enough to state that you weren't necessarily 100% correct, but this whole assumption thing is why we have such a misbalance.

Everyone thinks that items like warmogs are great unless you actually purchase them... Then you realize that so much of the cost of it went into the passive that you don't get to use that it becomes a meh purchase. You are almost better off getting 100 less HP from frozen mallet, getting ad, and a slow...

Even if you do get 40% cdr and a warmogs, and do get to use the passive, where are you getting the mana to re-initiate a second time? I used to build Athenes Unholy grail and warmogs on sion so I could have a 36 second ulti and if I got out of combat I was full hp and mana. They removed mana regen from it, I had issues actually doing anything with sion.

I haven't played sion in probably 4-5 months.... I went from mastery 7 secondary main, to not playing him.

sit kid1 votes

http://i.imgur.com/Wyg0ODz.png

What I meant was effective health vs. getting armor. When items give more armor/mr and less health, there would be more space for the items that exclusively grant health.

A warmogs on its own of course isnt good (probably also seems a bit to the weak side statwise), but i think it definetely is a good mix with some heavy armor/mr items like frozen heart, thornmail ect...

Thefrostyviking1 votes

{quoted}

Cho'gath isn't a tank by Riot's definition, and Zac, Sej and Galio are not representatives of the entire tank class. That's like saying that just because Syndra is super strong right now all mages are in a good spot. Gragas for some reason is allowed to do damage and have hard CC. Every other tank is suffering

Every other tank you say?

Then which one are you speaking of except maokai who´s rework turned out a bit poorly?

I can´t think of a single one that is doing poorly(Except mentioned exception), as long as you play them in the right lane they're all doing quite well.

And Cho certainly is unique, however he does have an aspect of a tank ,he moves in and sponges a metric ton of damage from the other team, that is something only tanks can do, perhaps he is simply a unique tank and nothing more.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Tanks who don't do well: poppy, nauti, maokai,malphite, rammus. Tanks who do well: draven hehexd.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

{quoted}

Tanks who don't do well: poppy, nauti, maokai,malphite, rammus. Tanks who do well: draven hehexd.

Man, i mentioned maokai due to his rework ._. Read through please.

Nauti has a 50% winrate , this is perfectly balanced.

Malphite has a 48%, slightly under perfection but he always was situational, and boring.

Poppy sits at 47%, probably due to heavy nerfs after pro play.,....a case of a champion being OP the moment their numbers are good. I would expect a Ryze treatment sometime in the future,

Rammus has a 49% winrate, 1% under perfectly fine, which is fine.

Anyone else?

Thefrostyviking1 votes

{quoted}

This isn't a sion issue. It's a tank issue. Damage destroys tanks. You can't itemize against damage anymore. Into an all ad team i can play malphite, build full armor and still be destroyed if i Ult into the enemy team and my shit team doesn't follow up. I'm not saying i should last forever, but 2.25 seconds shouldnt be a timeframe of death for a full armor malphite into a full ad team.

That won't happen if the enemy team isnt fed as hell though, at least not if you are using the optimal items.

One like Cho can tank for ages with no problems at all.

GigglesO1 votes

{quoted}

optimal items.

You mean all 6 of them? Oh yea that right, because tanks have a "choice" in what they buy

There is only item 3047 item 3143 item 3075 item 3068 item 3110 item 3193 item 3742 that actually mean anything...

And tbh my favorite is tmail, but I have my doubts about it... no mana why are you building frozen heart... sunfire cape you mean does 100 damage before I die cape... deadmans plate, because you get to be a deadman faster... woo 20% crit reduction on AA's good thing everything is just physical on spell cast or on hit effects or ect since almost no adc builds crit... Stone plate, because taking double the time to die while still doing nothing is worth an item slot...

Spicy Rice9 votes

I miss playing sion way back when you would get a crystalline pot and spam e in lane.

Elkington VI5 votes

To be honest, Sion has it better than most tanky melees, even in his current state. He's pretty much impossible to shut down, unlike most melees that lane. He can always find a way to make plays, as long as the player is decent.

While he is weak against mobility, he doesn't get hard countered like most immobile melees do. What he lacks in dueling power he makes for with his teamfighting, and he can even lane against ranged champions that give most melee champs trouble.

ModKnightsKemplar4 votes

So here's my problem with your assessment; Sion is the second strongest top laner in the game currently, and he's ALSO the second best support: https://na.op.gg/champion/sion/statistics/top

If you aren't having fun playing your main, that's one thing; but he's plenty strong in the right hands. He still has positive win rates in silver and gold, too, so it's not like he's only good if you're plat or better. He's plenty strong.

So, I guess my question to you is this; how do you justify those stats? If Sion is weak, why is he winning so many games? Why is he, by all metrics I can find with real statistics, a great pick?

If your argument were that Sion isn't fun, that would be another thing. But he isn't weak. That just simply isn't true.

Sahn Uzal2 votes

Its a pretty damn low sample size.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

How so? The SS data shows there are at least 1500 games on this patch so far for top lane Sion alone.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

1.3% pickrate is a low sample size.

Commader Kiwi1 votes

1.3 % is alot..

LegacyDAP2 votes

If a sample size is low and the win rate for the champion is still good that means there IS a viable way to play the champion. Doesn't matter the sample size. Now granted, if you see an AD Karthus with a 90% win rate in 100 games it's probably not good, but it does show you can be good with anything in that elo.

GigglesO1 votes

{quoted}

So here's my problem with your assessment; Sion is the second strongest top laner in the game currently, and he's ALSO the second best support:

1.5% playrate, those guys main them. If he was truly best he would have a playrate like lee sins. STop using statistics to say what you want them to say.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

OP mains him... we're talking about mains here.

You aren't wrong that you have to take play rate into account, too. That's true. But he should be fine with a win rate that high. That's my opinion. I'm happy to have a real discussion about it, but I'm aware how stats work.

NinjaGuy693 votes

Have you tried playing Sion after the buffs he got recently?

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Jbels2 votes

{quoted}

Have you tried playing Sion after the buffs he got recently?

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Yes. It was a nice gesture, but ultimately doesn't solve the issues he has

Glory ln Death2 votes

Except, you know...

The fact that it boosted him from #31 winrate in top lane to #2, just under Pantheon.

Yep. The buffs definitely didn't solve any of his issues.

GULAG 4 U2 votes

Being good doesn't mean your kit no longer has issues.

Glory ln Death2 votes

Sion's kit doesn't have any real issues in it, though (except for a few inconsistent bugs that pop up every once in a while). He had performance issues due to Sunfire Cape's nerfs, which were issues shared by nearly all tanks after the update. His W buffs fixed those performance issues.

BestGangZhaoNA2 votes

[deleted]

Jbels30 votes

{quoted}

Says the hardstuck silver 4/5 lmao. You clearly are not too good at this game, and if you are playing ranked, you should be smart and not pick your main into clear counters :)

I don't need to be in challenger to understand a champion I've been playing for a long time. If you've got nothing good to contribute, there's the door.

sit kid10 votes

Look at his boards profile, all he does is mock people...

nice table2 votes

what are the champions that hard counter sion though? i actually started playing him cause he seemed like the only top lane tank that was semi viable and didn't get completely fisted in a lot of matchups.

Sahn Uzal2 votes

Try playing him vs a fiora.

Glory ln Death2 votes

Any mobile auto-attacker is a strong counter to Sion in lane. Ranged auto-attackers are also pretty strong against him.

LegacyDAP3 votes

Tilterella is a Sion main in Challenger on 3 different accounts. Granted doesn't always play Sion, but Sion isn't bad.

GigglesO1 votes

There are Challenger mains on pretty much every champion. Just because there is a challenger main doesn't mean that champion is balanced or easy to play. Most of the 1-3% play rate champions feel pretty garbage to play...

As a morde main I feel like trash right now too... I live longer in team fights building ap than tank...

GayFluffyUnicorn3 votes

Thing is many of those champs are played ONLY in challenger because they simply won't be able to carry below d3. Unless they go full crit sion.

Dryden8143 votes

He is contributing,he's telling you how you're a moron,for picking sion into clear counters. Sion just doesn't fit in this meta. Deal with it and wait till riot acknowledges tanks as a real class.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

I just wanted to mention, Sion has a 54% winrate, he is second only to Pantheon at 55%.

Anyone who calls Sion weak is simply playing him wrong, statistics don't lie.

LordGeovanni2 votes

So thats what happened to their best game mode.

ThePikol2 votes

And remember that someone R passive is a better version of yours. Annie

Tobias Brackner2 votes

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Sion is one of the safest champions in the game to play.

What you are describing as problems for Sion are easily fixed by better positioning and usage of his moves.

The game doesn't hate Sion, you need to git gud.

Commader Kiwi2 votes

what are u talking about .. i saw a sion 1v1 a nasus late game and won , nasus had 600 stacks. SION IS STILL GOOD . and they didnt nerf tanks , they made it so tank meta wouldnt hurt the silver and bronze players. i mean they rage alot because they cant kite tanks. PLUS ITS NOT SION IS BAD. its just not a reliable option because in higher elo , tanks get kited. ALL TANKS gets kited . look at pro play YOU NEVER SEE champions like mundo , why,? because unless they have a gapcloser they are useless and gets kited. BUT if you watch trick2g's video he teaches how not to get kited :) hope this helps

Lauchmelder1 votes

Trick2g teaches you how not to get kited?

He's playing Volibear and Udyr, both of them have an MS boost on a skill or the passive.

FiddlesOnTheRoof1 votes

He just got some nice buffs, but yes, it's not just Sion. Tanks aren't very good right now. Just look at the comps LCS teams are running.

Hexs Fortune1 votes

They need to give Sion CC immunity on the Q. We can take baby steps and only grant the immunity after 1 second of charging as it goes into the stun phase.

Sion commands attention and shouldn't have to try to sneak in Q casts like a ninja. His hard CC takes time to come out and is super visible compared to other tanks. People can see it coming and move out, thats enough counterplay, it doesn't also need to be interrupt-able

Glory ln Death9 votes

Heck. Freaking. No. That is a terrible idea that would remove one of the main counters to Sion.

Ralanr5 votes

All I think Sion's Q needs is to remove the minimum range on it.

People can dodge his Q by standing too close to him.

ModJango Mage1 votes

I know this feel dude. I main Velkoz Swain AurelionSol so in the crappy lethality/assasin and burst meta that we had back than, i couldnt really play them. AurelionSol Velkoz just got deleted everytime in a split second and Swain AurelionSol couldnt really deal their dps dmg since the meta was about burst. And even Swain died a lot quicker. Right now all of them are quite strong so im glad we have this meta.Back than i needed to find some other ways of playing the game so i picked up one of my old mains Anivia . So maybe you could try to think of champion that are like Sion in some ways and the meta favors them. Maybe you could try to play Poppy, shes better in this meta i think.

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