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@Riot, Let's Talk Nami

CrazedPorcupine··5 votes·1,248 views

Hey Riot, I consider myself a pretty passionate Nami Player, and I love her unique place among the support roster. She's one of the supports that was hit pretty hard by the "Utility Update" way back when that turned Lulu into a top/mid laner, and was meant to encourage supports to build AP.

Let's go over Nami's Unique strengths

  1. Her passive allows her to haste allies to help chase down enemies or engage.
  2. She has unique options for all her abilities.
  3. She can enhance allies autos in a unique way that Lulu can't
  4. She can both engage and disengage
  5. Her heal also acts as damage and can heal up to 2 people or damage 2 people.

Unique weaknesses:

  1. Her Utility's base amounts are fairly low, due to their AP scalings
  2. Her W's Mana cost costs more than most ultimates, and it's bouncing amounts decreases the amount it heals or damages
  3. Her entire Ult is negated by Braum W and Yasuo W

My big thing with Nami, is 2 fold. Among most of the supports affected by Nami, Nami was not hurt much by the changes, and in fact, she was quite a competitive pick for a while. However, Braum and Yasuo's prevalence, Nami fell out of Favor. Because of Braum's continued usage in top tier play, Nami's power is entirely negated as all her abilities are considered projectiles.

Solutions to allow Nami to flourish among the supports in top tier play among the Tanky engagers/disengagers and not be completely shut out by Braum.

  1. Increase the AP ratios on Nami's W bounce shift, her E damage and slow (from .2 to .3 and .05 to .07)
  2. Change her Ult from being a single large wide projectile to around 10 small projectiles that overlap slightly. What this does allows a good ult to still be used around Braum and Yasuo without negating her entire ult.

Overall, Nami's in a very solid spot, but when a support like Lulu is primarily showcased mid/top because of her better use with AP because of the great ratios on her abilities, and their ability to be used on both allies and enemies (much like Nami) I feel like by buffing Nami by increasing her Utility ratios, Nami may become more prevalent as a potent flex pick for mid/top and support. The change to her Ult allows her to be usable without getting instantly countered by Braum, who is considered a top tier support.

28 Comments

Deep Terror Nami7 votes

I honestly just pick something else if they get Yasuo before I pick. No amount of buffs will stop that (Unless Tidal Wave breaks Windwall!), and would probably make her too strong when he isn't present.

For Braum, he's either going to shield my Aqua Prison and get hit, or he's not going to shield it and still get hit. Either way I'll get to use my Ult; when he's bubbled and can't shield or after his shield goes away. He can be worked around, unlike Yasuo.

Her Ebb & Flow (her heal) has such high costs because how efficient it is when you get it to bounce. I believe it should be on the player to make each cast count, as a way to separate the bad Nami's from the good ones if anything. If Riot were to reduce this burden, I would suggest they do so by making it refund a portion of the mana for each time it didn't bounce. I don't care whether it has this or not, but it would be a huge efficiency buff.

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

I figured you'd pop in here Deep Terror, I know you're the Malicious Metal of the Nami playerbase.

True, Braum can be played around, but his W still blocks E enhanced autos, W bounces, Q bubble, entire R, it literally counters the entire kit.

From what I remember, they gave it such a large mana cost so that it's flexibility and power wouldn't contest with Soraka's ability to be a potent healer

The big thing is yes, it does get incredibly efficient when it bounces, and that power is reflected in the mana cost, much like Lux's E.

I don't have any issues with it's mana cost, and find that it's actually reasonable for the sheer power that the ability provides. However, I'd like for Nami to be a bit more enticing to be taken as a flex pic, and upping her synergy with AP by giving her better utility ratios instead of just better heals/damage on her W would be better.

LegacyDAP2 votes

I honestly don't see much wrong with these changes, but I don't play Nami either. Get Deep Terror Nami in here or something.

Deep Terror Nami4 votes

http://i.snag.gy/eN1fY.jpg

Reaper Soraka2 votes

I approve of Nami buffs. I don't play top tier games so I don't have too many Braum problems, but I still prefer to build Nami tank over AP nami because the ratios just don't feel that useful. I can heal my initial target to take an extra hit, or I can build tanky and take like 5-10 extra hits? No real alternative choice to be made imo.

I also feel too squishy to really make good use of AP. :(

Illiad1 votes

Her ebb and flow definitly doesnt need scaling upgrades x'D past 200 ap she does stupid damage and healing. when played right, trying to give her more damage as a support would cripple the purpose of letting her go solo lane to success because it would be broken like janna was. I can solo lane nami easy and others who know how can too, if it was brought out more i am positive it would become useless due to scaling where right now its amazing.

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

The problem is, when does support Nami ever get more than maybe 100 AP? they get maybe 50 AP from Frost Queens (25 if they do Eye of the Watchers), and MAYBE, RARELY get Banner of command, which is another 50. I mean, They could get Zeke's Harbinger, and get another about 50-60, but overall, They don't get more than 100-150 AP per game.

This means that Nami's Utility ratios are very under utilized. Buffing them up slightly helps out support Nami a decent bit, while making AP top Nami a reasonable flex pick. Especially since all of Nami's abilities are countered hard by Braum. Braum's release is the exact reason Nami stopped being picked in Competitive play.

Illiad1 votes

We dont want support nami doing a high amount of damage though. that defeats the purpose of being support lol. her ult got a double rate on her passive also. and is it a problem she gets countered by Braum? i mean it sucks, but unless its Braum i usually just swamp my lane opponents with huge Cc

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

Except, I'm not saying buff her base damages, I'm saying buff her Utility ratios. Make it so that when she get's enough AP, her E's slow is really potent, make it so that her W bounce grows way more powerful after each bounce. I'm not saying outright increase her Q's damage ratio or her W's base damage ratio. Besides her W's damage is offset quite nicely by it's high 130 mana cost.

Illiad1 votes

then my normal nami will probably one shot a voli on the third bounce, here's hoping.

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

Probably not. Even if you have 700 AP from a Full AP build, proc a Luden's echo with the 3rd bounce, You'd still only likely do maybe 600 damage to a volibear if he has Spirit Visage. Maybe 700 if you're lucky.

Illiad1 votes

unless we get that scaling bonus you really want, where it will hit for nearly 1000 without hesitation. id rush item 3040 item 3027 and final build somewhere along item 3027 item 3003 item 3089 item 3285 item 3116 item 3020 and il be damned if there is anyone. ive taken down Leblanc Orianna Talon Zed TwistedFate Morgana Jhin Jhin Jhin i can rarely find someone who can solo fight her combo, only counter play is literally after she finishes or unless the nami is bad at landing the bubble

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

Here's the thing, it's current change is that it takes 200 AP to completely negate any change. With 700 AP flat, that changes the modification to around 50%. So, the 2nd bounce if you use Alt-W to selfcast to ensure the bounce, you'll get only 720 damage. if you get the third bounce, only then will it do 1040 without calculating resistances. If the Volibear has 200 MR (Not unreasonable from Runes, Masteries, and Merc Treads/Spirit Visage) You'll do about 600 damage post mitigation.

As for beating LB, Orianna, Talon, Zed, TF, Morgana. Most of them don't build much MR, and so of course you'll do a sizable amount of damage.

However, the current ratio's on her E and W don't encourage people to take her mid or Top, Unlike Lulu.

Even a tiny adjustment from 7.5% change per 100 AP to 8% change per 100 AP would be enough for me. I'd personally be more interested in the buffs to her E ratios over anything else.

Illiad1 votes

adding a scenario of "Well they dont build MR" to ur not factual facts is a rofl moment x'D

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

Okay, let's incorporate MR.

Orianna's E and she built Grail. She also took scaling MR glyphs. THis brings her MR to around 95-105 at level 18. (30+E+25+18) So she'll take about 50% reduced damage from Magic Damage. (This is changed slightly by having sorc shoes) So an optimal 3rd bounce W will deal 500 damage. If you take Void staff, this is changed to about 700 damage on an optimal 3rd bounce.

The AD assassins, let's say they built Maw of Malmortius. and Mercurial Scimitar They have 54 MR at level 18, they take another 20 ish from runes, they get about 100 from their items. They have around 175 MR. Your 1040 Damage W is now reduced to about 400 damage without voidstaff, and about 550-600 with voidstaff.

Overall, I do incorporate MR when considering things. That's why I said her damage wasn't an issue. Yes you can "Beat" assassins and other squishy targets, but it'll always be over a delayed period of time. That optimal 3rd bounce damage is finicky, rarely goes to the target you want, and it's incredibly costly. So yes, it can be a powerful nuke, but it's highly conditional.

Illiad1 votes

Should i point out nami is amazing in drawn out fights? or are you lying when you say you are a Passionate nami player when you refuse to play to her strengths. ;)

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that usually in order to "beat" the assassins, you HAVE to wittle them down. While you're doing that, they can all in you and blow you up. Yes, most of them you can counterplay and play around, but it's not easy.

I'm also not saying to buff her base damages, her damage ratios (except E) at all because I'm well aware of how much damage Nami can do. I'm simply saying that While nami is alright built AP. She's not strong enough built AP to be worth putting in a solo lane for the gold and exp that it gives.

I'm saying that LULU, who is most comparable to Nami in what each does. (Haste, AA modifier, Disengage, Poke, and damage mitigation) Nami doesn't provide enough incentive when built AP to be taken Over Lulu, or over other champs like Lissandra, Kennen, or Orianna.

Penguin Eclipse3 votes

{quoted}

Here's the thing, it's current change is that it takes 200 AP to completely negate any change. With 700 AP flat, that changes the modification to around 50%. So, the 2nd bounce if you use Alt-W to selfcast to ensure the bounce, you'll get only 720 damage. if you get the third bounce, only then will it do 1040 without calculating resistances. If the Volibear has 200 MR (Not unreasonable from Runes, Masteries, and Merc Treads/Spirit Visage) You'll do about 600 damage post mitigation.

As for beating LB, Orianna, Talon, Zed, TF, Morgana. Most of them don't build much MR, and so of course you'll do a sizable amount of damage.

However, the current ratio's on her E and W don't encourage people to take her mid or Top, Unlike Lulu.

Even a tiny adjustment from 7.5% change per 100 AP to 8% change per 100 AP would be enough for me. I'd personally be more interested in the buffs to her E ratios over anything else.

No one who truly likes Nami wants Nami to go top or mid. Ever. She will be gutted.

Riot doesn't want it either. They designed her from the ground up not to work well in solo lanes.

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

The problem is, Lulu was designed to be a support. They made her optimal in a duo lane where she could choose between debuffing her foes, or enhancing her allies. The problem was that they made her utility ratios so good that people took her to mid and top so she could get gold so her Utility would be bonkers. That's why you never see lulu taken support. Her Utility ratios are so good she's better off getting AP and gold from a solo lane.

After Lulu came out, Riot decided to make all supports have scaling Utiltiy. This is why Kayle's Heal has MS scaling ratio, Sona's E has AP ratio for it's haste, SOraka's old heal had an Armor buff with an AP ratio, Janna's W slow% has an AP ratio, and her E's AD damage scales with Janna's AP. It was right after they introduced the gold gen items for supports, and were like, Now they can build AP items, so let's reward them for it!

Lulu's ratios were so good, lulu started being taken to solo lanes instead of duo lanes because her utility scaling was bonkers.

This is why Nami's Passive has an AP ratio, her W bounce can now be increased with AP, and her E slow% has an AP ratio. However, the ratios aren't high enough to make her viable in a solo lane, and supports don't get enough gold income to purchase the AP Nami needs to make her scalings worth while. SO, what I am saying is that Nami could be come a decent alternative to Lulu in competitive by offering alternate Utility than Lulu, while also being viable use of gold in a solo lane.

Have you ever wondered why LULU, a support with poor base damages for her 2 damaging abilities is taken mid and top? yes part of it is because her damage used to be way higher, and her Q double stacking also didn't help, but it was mostly because her utility with AP was way too good. Riot nerfed her damage, while also bumping up her utility slightly, this means that Lulu has stayed in the top lane and mid.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

{quoted}

The problem is, Lulu was designed to be a support. They made her optimal in a duo lane where she could choose between debuffing her foes, or enhancing her allies. The problem was that they made her utility ratios so good that people took her to mid and top so she could get gold so her Utility would be bonkers. That's why you never see lulu taken support. Her Utility ratios are so good she's better off getting AP and gold from a solo lane.

After Lulu came out, Riot decided to make all supports have scaling Utiltiy. This is why Kayle's Heal has MS scaling ratio, Sona's E has AP ratio for it's haste, SOraka's old heal had an Armor buff with an AP ratio, Janna's W slow% has an AP ratio, and her E's AD damage scales with Janna's AP. It was right after they introduced the gold gen items for supports, and were like, Now they can build AP items, so let's reward them for it!

Lulu's ratios were so good, lulu started being taken to solo lanes instead of duo lanes because her utility scaling was bonkers.

This is why Nami's Passive has an AP ratio, her W bounce can now be increased with AP, and her E slow% has an AP ratio. However, the ratios aren't high enough to make her viable in a solo lane, and supports don't get enough gold income to purchase the AP Nami needs to make her scalings worth while. SO, what I am saying is that Nami could be come a decent alternative to Lulu in competitive by offering alternate Utility than Lulu, while also being viable use of gold in a solo lane.

Have you ever wondered why LULU, a support with poor base damages for her 2 damaging abilities is taken mid and top? yes part of it is because her damage used to be way higher, and her Q double stacking also didn't help, but it was mostly because her utility with AP was way too good. Riot nerfed her damage, while also bumping up her utility slightly, this means that Lulu has stayed in the top lane and mid.

But no one wants Nami to be viable in another lane other than you. Riot doesn't want it. Nami mains don't want it. And Mid/Top laners certainly don't want it. Every support that has gone in a solo lane has been extremely toxic to lane against.

Most everyone including Riot admit utility scaling was a failure.

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

However, Riot Can't reverse the Utility scalings because then they'd have to destroy Lulu, and Riot likes lulu being played in off lanes.

Right now Nami isn't picked support because Tanky supports with surefire engage are the most common. Janna and Morg being niche counter picks.

Lulu as a Utility Mage/SUpport is good enough that while designed as a support, and working quite well being starved of gold, She's the only support with heavy utility that's not actually played as a support anymore.

Nami could function quite well as a Utility mage taken to other lanes. Her main form of reliable poke is incredibly expensive, and you can force Nami to waste mana on self sustain so she can't poke you down, her Stun is highly predictable and dodgeable, and her E is decent for harass as an alternative to her W.

Also, With the prevalence of Braum as a pick, Nami has fallen out of favor with the pros.

Just like any champion, which can have success in Soloqueue, Nami's non-existance in Pro play has been disheartening. By buffing up only her Utility ratios, you don't really make support nami oppressive, and lane nami is rarely oppressive because of the mechanics Riot put in to ensure that Nami's laning is not frustrating in either solo or Duo lanes.

Unlike Soraka, who could waveclear and nuke you down like crazy because her MR shred scaled with AP, and her E was point and click silence/nuke, which was insanely oppressive, Nami's main damage/poke is tied to an incredibly high mana cost ability with a sizable cooldown.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

The R change sounds good but also buggy. I don't see it working like you would think it would.

I'm undecided on her W AP ratios. Her late game W isn't terrible impressive. But I'd hesitate to buff a fairly heavily loaded ability.

A change in her E could be too much. With buffs to an AA amplifier you run the risk of it synergizing to well with Lichbane. On supports this is a death sentence if it becomes popular. It's annoying for everyone and leads to significant balance issues. Just look at Sona and Lulu. This is not the direction we want to take one of League's most balanced supports. It would break her balance entirely.

Illiad1 votes

if she is AP the late game W ap ratios is what makes nami do damage lol. past 200 ap she just dumpsters damage and heals out like its nothing

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

Except not really, Nami's AP ratio on her heal is .4 (with a base of 180 HP, and at a cost of 130 mana) while her damage is 230+.5 AP.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

You are confusing not completely gutting solo lane Lulu with liking solo lane Lulu. No one likes solo lane Lulu. No one wants solo lane Nami.

Nami isn't terribly popular because she isn't meta. We don't need to change her just so she becomes popular. Especially when she WILL get nerfed if she becomes popular in the solo lane. Every support to ever go into a solo lane has come out a different champion.

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

Except, many people DO enjoy Solo lane Lulu. It's the people that have to FACE her that don't like her.

Nami's not popular because Braum and Yasuo exist.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

{quoted}

Except, many people DO enjoy Solo lane Lulu. It's the people that have to FACE her that don't like her.

Nami's not popular because Braum and Yasuo exist.

Nami wasn't popular before Braum and Yasuo even existed.

She's not popular because she's not broken. Stop trying to change that by creating a toxic cesspool of lichbane solo lane nami's that will end up hurting well balanced support nami.

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