I do think long-time stealth has a place in this game, however...

SaltyToplaneGoat··1 votes·139 views

... maybe not on a hypercarry. Twitch

He has always been a weird champion tbh, for one totally binary (a god when ahead, absolutely miserable when behind) extremly so even for marksmen standards. Either ban worthy or never-picked. Twitch when he is strong just melts teamfights, and there ain't much you can do about it, besides praying that he is either stupid, or hoping that your tank and assassin playing teammates are just so on edge that they all jump on him literally the second he pops up.

Generally hypercarries are in a weird spot. Other than self-reliant kiter-adcs such as Vayne they often have superior, if not even obscene damage, but also they are pure glass cannons. Just take Kog'Maw as the perfect example: he needs an entire team protecting his squishy void-butt to work, but WHEN he work, oh well, then that's gonna be a hard game for the enemy.

Obviously, there is a logical counter-strategy to such hypercarries which plays into the intended weakness: always pick them out or engage always hard on them every single tf. That's kinda what we have assassins for.

And here's the problem with Twitch: There won't be a teamfight unless he's already in the perfect position to melt your team, but given that he's invisible you can't just pick him off. So the moment Twitch makes himself actually vulnerable (as vulnerable as you can get with that ult steroid), he has already won the fight (or at least he's certain that he will melt at least one before anyone can even react). And to be honest, that's just frustrating to deal with, and that's not even accounting for the entire team that backs up the Twitch.

An important intended weakness for hypercarries is getting cancelled out through the stealth, resulting in the stuff I see regulary in my games: "OH HELLO!" And suddenly the entire team is close to death, without us being able to do much about it. Oh and before anyone mentions vision wards... let's just say I reached a level where people tend to get literally triggered by them. The moment they see it they destroy it, and they also ward... combine that with the popularity of Duskblade that tells you when you are spotted, and suddenly you can say goodbye to the wards you have placed on the flanking routes.

To be honest Twitch either needs a shift from damage to utility somehow, or to lose the stealth - but as that is kinda his iconic thing, maybe utility is the best way to go. Having both stealth AND the ability to melt an entire team is kinda overkill...

3 Comments

CamilleRule341 votes

Heres a motto to live by, if you dont know where twitch is, he's probably right by you. don't do stoopid shit like going into a team fight and burning stuff before twitch shows up. He's also not invisible, he's camo, if he gets close enough to someone he'll be spotted, so if you really think he might be sneakin around, use your red trinket, or hell, slap down a control ward literally EVERYWHERE and try and spot him.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Yes so I throw a ward, spot Twitch at the outer edge - if I spot him, he backs off, the ward gets cleared, and the result is nothing besides delying the teamfight for a bit - yeah what an awesome thing to spend all my gold on yay.

Stealth, Camo... IT'S INVISIBLE AND WORKS WITH THE ELEMENT OF SURPRISE. God, why do people on this board need to split hairs over everything?!

The thing is, Twitch won't get close enough for him to get in actual danger unless he's either sure he can kill someone or when he can count on his team to simultanously engage or bail him out. He's this weird mix of assassin and marksman, and these roles are kinda contrary in what their playstyles and the intended weaknesses resulting from these playstyles is supposed to be.

Also I really, really dont wanna be that guy and bring the Rank argument, but I think the number of Twitches that don't know when to go in/get too close is absurdly higher in your ranking enviorment than mine. More important than all mechanical skill and so on is having good judgement of the situation, and in low silver that's what most people lack from my experience. The classic being: "going for a kill when WOOOPS I lack some damage actually", and that mostly combined with the positioning of people... yeah, Twitch is an marksman who might appear harmless or easy to deal with on a lower to average level, but in the skilled hands of someone who knows EXACTLY how many shots he needs where to kill and how to position JUST so he doesn't get spotted?

That at some point reaches a level where you cannot do much besided going full suicidal, just hoping you murder everyone else and can gang the twitch before he kills all of you. And being overly aggressive is usually a reason people lose games, so that's not a solid strategy to go by either.

In the end long-term invisibility is just not designed to be interactive, and having something non-interactive in a multiplayer game capable of melting entire teams, that's just not good.

CamilleRule341 votes

{quoted}

Yes so I throw a ward, spot Twitch at the outer edge - if I spot him, he backs off, the ward gets cleared, and the result is nothing besides delying the teamfight for a bit - yeah what an awesome thing to spend all my gold on yay.

Stealth, Camo... IT'S INVISIBLE AND WORKS WITH THE ELEMENT OF SURPRISE. God, why do people on this board need to split hairs over everything?!

The thing is, Twitch won't get close enough for him to get in actual danger unless he's either sure he can kill someone or when he can count on his team to simultanously engage or bail him out. He's this weird mix of assassin and marksman, and these roles are kinda contrary in what their playstyles and the intended weaknesses resulting from these playstyles is supposed to be.

Also I really, really dont wanna be that guy and bring the Rank argument, but I think the number of Twitches that don't know when to go in/get too close is absurdly higher in your ranking enviorment than mine. More important than all mechanical skill and so on is having good judgement of the situation, and in low silver that's what most people lack from my experience. The classic being: "going for a kill when WOOOPS I lack some damage actually", and that mostly combined with the positioning of people... yeah, Twitch is an marksman who might appear harmless or easy to deal with on a lower to average level, but in the skilled hands of someone who knows EXACTLY how many shots he needs where to kill and how to position JUST so he doesn't get spotted?

That at some point reaches a level where you cannot do much besided going full suicidal, just hoping you murder everyone else and can gang the twitch before he kills all of you. And being overly aggressive is usually a reason people lose games, so that's not a solid strategy to go by either.

In the end long-term invisibility is just not designed to be interactive, and having something non-interactive in a multiplayer game capable of melting entire teams, that's just not good.

A lot of is just saving your cool downs, especially if you're support. If you're a lulu or a janna and you have a Locket, and Redemption and such, you have to be ready for when he pops up. If its to the point where twitch can literally melt your team then a lot of what you have to do is pray, lol.

Dw about taking rank into this, its a common concern for many people, but i've played many games with people as high as diamond three, and i'm not compeltely unaware of the skill gap between elos.

I main nautilus, and if the enemy has a twitch my R doesn't get used until I know where he is. A lot of it is trying to read the team fight before it happens, or hopefully get a pick.

Alternaitvely beat the shit out of him early in the game so he couldnt even melt the cheese ont he sandwich he so demands

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