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Do we even need Runes, Masteries, and levelling in general?

SaltyToplaneGoat··3 votes·1,203 views

First of all, let's forget this whole argument of "something for new players to level up on", because given how many million people already play this game and how shitty the new player experience is in general, new players shouldn't be the main factor when it comes to questions of design that affect everyone.

Both Runes and Mastery systems are "relicts" of the olden days of League, when none even knew what the hell a proper "Moba" was and even that acronym was only known to those who played the - sometimes horribly - modded WC3 maps, although there the term Dota was more common. Actually, the entire levelling system was feels like it was just thrown in because of the fantasy nature of the game and to make sure newbies don't instantly jump into ranked.

However, that can be easily done with Champion Mastery. For ranked you need x champs and x mastery levels, of which Y need to be level 4 or 5. That'd make ranked access like "show me you can play at least so many champs good and some even better" instead of "sink X time and exp boosts into it". Basicially "you need to be this tall to ride the rollercoaster" instead of "you need to wait in line for this long". Which one of the two makes more sense is obvious here I think.

Runes are absolutely boring stat givers that take almost forever to grind games for, and on low-level, it might make up for some quite unfair lane matchups if someone has a Quint and 2 runes more than you and an free advantage over you in a game that is supposed to be fair. At the same time it makes balancing more complicated, as all base values and stuff have to take runes into consideration, making the earlygame kinda tricky to balance. Also, this results in one or two runepages being the "best suitable", kissing all promise of "individualizing your playstyle" goodbye.

And masteries... well, Riot TRIED to modernize them with keystones but... this game ALREADY suffers from damage creep, and adding a three-hit-lightening damage or stacking AD was not exactly a way of solving this. Reducing it would either mean making the keystones useless, or balance the champions around it. HOWEVER, that makes for a really shitty feel, as the champion is supposed to deliver the main empowerment fantasy in this game. Shifting any power from a champion to a source outside the champion is always a bad idea. Usable items or interactive objects like plants still work, but stats and masteries? Not working dude, not really.

"Stop dumbing down the game, go play heroes of the storm when you want that!" - that's something I heard already, but then again, what good is there in needless complexity? I mean, the basement of my hoarder-greataunt's house is extremly complex, but that doesn't change the fact that it is just complexly arranged junk and garbage with zero overall use or value.

And I'd happily trade some complexity for a more enjoyable and easier to balance game.

6 Comments

Slipliner1 votes

I wish I knew the post, but alas it is lost somewhere in the boards because there was one post where multiple big name rioters more or less agreed with you on the point of runes. That said I do think that the mastery system shouldn't be gated by levels, but there still needs to be some leveling system because I know multiple people who are more or less one tricks that have been playing the game since s3 that would be insta locked out or ranked because they have to grind up more champs than the one or two they really enjoy.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Well as long as the restriction wouldn't be: own 20 champs and have 20 mastery rank 5, but rather own 20 champs (with the new 5 ban system that is a logical requirement) and three rank 5 and the rest rank 2 or something it shouldn't be too bad. Like, you can't ALWAYS play your one-trick, and this is also something that tells people to look around and maybe try out new champs that could suit their tastes.

Also, once you got them requirements down, you might as well go back to your one-trick-only playstyle again, so whatever ^^

R1bbon1 votes

I have 5 major points I would like to cover in argument to your proposal and I will get to them in time. If you don't want to read this post in it's entirety, then I suggest reading the tl;dr section below.

tl;dr

  1. Summoner Level serves as a way to create a synthetic experience bar that ensures that noobs don't immediately get into ranked play.
  2. Mastery and Runes are used to speed up gameplay by essentially giving you a free starting item.
  3. Mastery isn't that great a system, because Mastery can be gained relatively fast and it doesn't really dictate your experience with a Champion.
  4. Leveling is a way to match-make for people who don't play ranked.
  5. It's not perfect, but it works.

Summoner Level serves as a way to create a synthetic experience bar that ensures that noobs don't immediately get into ranked play. Do you realize what would happen if we didn't have a level bar that stops new players from immediately jumping into ranked there would be no (good) way to stop level 1 equivalents from playing with level 30 equivalents. Now, you're probably thinking, "Well, why don't you just stop people who don't do well in games or haven't played any games from being matched with people who do well?" If we do that then we need to rework the entire matchmaking system to also be able to reliably match people of equal skill level. And what about custom matches? If you don't meet certain requirements, you don't earn any XP from a custom match, which stops people from abusing custom matches to get rushed to competitive play. How would you decide what matches to count and which to not count? Now, you mentioned replacing Summoner Level with Mastery Level, I don't see how that changes anything from the old system (you still need to level up), and the Mastery system doesn't really show how experienced or good you are (which I'll discuss in detail later). What Summoner Level basically does is it basically says, "Ok, play [this] many matches [well] so you have some experience in this game before you play ranked."

Mastery and Runes are used to speed up gameplay by essentially giving you a free starting item. When you're low in Summoner Level, you are: not good at the game (relatively), take the game more slowly, and focus more on improving your gameplay strategy than your "twitch speed". When you are in high elo, you want to do everything faster: destroy turrets faster, get to the teamfight faster, kill the enemy faster, etc. I'm not saying that these things aren't important to newbies, but when you're "young" you should really be trying to learn what mistakes you are making and how you can rectify it instead of the best and fastest way to kill that guy over there. If you have bonus starting stats then you can kill people faster, move faster, attack faster, etc. These stats aren't as important to the noob, as the noob is more concerned with weaknesses in their strategy (or at least they should be). Runes and Masteries are just a small way to increase the speed of the game (unless you're building defensively). I will concede, however, that not all runes are created equal.

Mastery isn't that great a system, because Mastery can be gained relatively fast and it doesn't really dictate your experience with a Champion. A friend of mine is level 13 and is already at mastery 3 after only a few matches, because at that point in time, it's easier to do well, especially if your friend is half decent. Now, because he's Mastery 3 for his Champion, does that mean that he is particularly good at that Champion or even the Game? Of course not, so why would we use that as the system to replace Summoner Level. Now you could say, "Why don't you just make it take longer to level up your Mastery level?" If you do that, then nothing has really changed (except level works on a Champion by Champion basis). At least Summoner Level takes a while to get to Lvl. 30 (which is good in my opinion). You don't rush fresh cadets to the front-lines (or at least you shouldn't).

Leveling is a way to match-make for people who don't play ranked. If a person does not play ranked and they still want to play PvP, then how better to match them, if not by the amount of experience they have. I will admit that there are scenarios that arise when 2 level 30's of different skill levels get put in a match with each other, but I think this is the exception, not the rule.

It's not perfect, but it works. I do admit that being low level can be a bit grind-ish at times, but I don't really think that that makes it less fun. I know that my experience wasn't that bad at least (and I was much, much worse than I am now coughravenous on ryzecough).

Stuff I'm ignoring on purpose: A good half of the argument you made about keystones and damage creeps. (I don't feel like I can make a solid [credible] argument, for or against, as I am not amazingly good player at League of Legends.) " "Stop dumbing down the game, go play heroes of the storm when you want that!" " (I've never heard this and I've never thought that how simple or complex a game is, would dictate your enjoyment of it.)

Nameless Voice1 votes

I don't understand why runes and masteries "letting you start with an extra item" is a good thing. If that's all that they do and the game is considered better for that extra power, why not just put it either into champions' base kits, or by giving them more starting gold?

R1bbon1 votes

First off, good point. Now for my counter-argument. As I noted above, runes and masteries essentially are a bonus item you receive for free (at least as far as in-game gold is concerned) before the match starts. There are 3 arguments I will make for the sake of runes and masteries...

tl;dr

  1. They add out-of-game customization for your character.
  2. They give a goal to new players.
  3. Masteries enable more diverse game (with exceptions *cough Thunderlords *cough). Runes enable better early gameplay.

...and I have 2 counter-arguments to your suggestions...

tl;dr Counter-argument 1: If you put runes or masteries in a Champion's base kit, then you don't allow for customization. Counter-argument 2: More gold doesn't really change anything, but Masteries and Runes change many things.

  1. They add out-of-game customization for your character. Now, keep in mind that I'm not talking about adding complexity to the game so much as adding diversity to it. Don't get me wrong, skins do a good job of customizing your character and adding diversity to the game, but those changes are only skin deep (pun intended). As in, they (typically) don't actually do anything, except make your Champion look and taunt differently. Runes and Masteries allow you to customize your character in a way that persists across games (unless you decide to change it). I also think that customizing your Runes and Masteries is a learning experience as well. When you customize your Runes and Masteries (assuming you are not just copy/pasting off a guide), you need to think about what is important to you in a game and (more importantly) what Runes and Masteries suit your Champion best. More importantly, they give you something to do when you're not queued up (Come on, I can't be the only one...guys...anyone...) and they give you something to think about.

  2. They give goals to new players. Now, I know that the OP kinda dismissed this kind of reasoning, but I feel that there is some validity to it. When I first began League of Legends, I would watch a professional/high-ranking player play the game, and during that time it felt like I was watching a video on rocket science written in German and spoken in Klingon. I could never have imagined (at that moment) how they got so good at the game; it was very intimidating to the guy who didn't even understand what AP was. I was not even dreaming of becoming that good (I'm still nowhere near that level); honestly, if it wasn't for Masteries and Runes (something to constantly look forward to achieving) I probably wouldn't be as into the game as I am now. When I couldn't even fathom what went through the heads of the high-ranked, Masteries and Runes gave me realistic goals to look forward to; this game needs new players, otherwise the game will stagnate and die.(None of us want that.)

  3. Masteries enable more diverse gameplay (with exceptions *cough Thunderlords *cough). Runes enable better early game. This final point is here to address what Masteries and Runes actually do for players. Ready? Masteries have a purpose in either solidifying or adding diversity (there's that word again) to your unique style of play. Let's consider Stormraider Surge for example. Stormraider Surge is a mastery that is an example of adding diversity to gameplay. It can be used as either a "Hit and Run" Mastery or a "Hit and Chase" Mastery. Let's pretend that Nocturne is using Stormraider Surge. He Ults into a teamfight and decimates 40% of a backliners health (thus killing them), he then uses that speed to attempt to make an escape from the teamfight while he has the bonus movespeed and the vision denial of his Ult (whether he lives depends on the situation). This is an example of the "Hit and Run" usage. The "Hit and Chase" usage is similar, but the bonus movespeed is used for chasing the target down if they didn't die. Basically, it's a conditional mini-Ghost. Things like Thunderlords Decree, solidify your Champion's gameplay by augmenting an auto-attack every once in awhile (especially if you rely on auto-attacks). Masteries exist for the same reason Summoner Spells exist, to give you a better, more diverse game. (And you'll notice that even Summoner Spells need to be unlocked by level.) What about Runes? They basically put points into places where you need/want them, so you can have a faster/more sustainable early game.

Counter-argument 1: If you put runes or masteries in a Champion's base kit, then you don't allow for customization. I think that this is pretty self-explanatory.

Counter-argument 2: More gold doesn't really change anything, but Masteries and Runes change many things. If you start the game with more gold, what actually changes? The only thing that really changes is that you get a better start. The reason why I'll take a Mastery and Rune Page over extra gold, is because Masteries and Runes don't take up space in your...Inventory.?(Is that what it's called?) Even if you get extra gold, you still only have 6 item slots (I'm not counting wards) available so your full build doesn't really change. But with Runes and Masteries you can have a full build plus a little extra. If you want to know why it's better this way then please refer to point 3.

Anyway, what do you think? I look forward to your response.

Nameless Voice1 votes

I have two counter-arguments. I'll try to keep them brief.

The first is that currently, runes and masteries are mostly a "solved problem" - that is, in a lot of cases, there isn't really a decision to be made, there's simply a "best choice" that everyone takes. If everyone chooses the same thing because it is objectively the best, then it's not really a choice.

The second is about power. For runes and masteries to feel meaningful, they need to be powerful, but the more powerful they become, the higher the general power level of the game, which leads to the damage creep we're seeing everywhere now. To keep the game balanced, that power has to be taken away from somewhere else (champion kits?)

Also, if so much power comes from non-champion sources, it homogenises champions based on their choices. Keystones are a prime example of this: all tanks get a shield when they CC you, all assassins get extra burst if they hit you three times in a short window, all enchanters heal/shield for more, etc.

So, the question is: is the choice valuable and meaningful enough to outweigh those issues? I think that the answer is currently not, because it's mostly a solved problem.

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