Can we get some improvements to make Udyr competitive with other juggernauts?

Yenn·Nov 5, 2019·5 votes·4,456 views

It would be nice if Udyr could be given a better mid game.

As it stands, you have to get insanely fed before level 6 in order to keep up with any other champion who isn't fed. This is largely because he doesn't get a power spike from an ultimate. If you go 2-0-0 by level 6, you'll quickly fall off into irrelevance and spend the rest of the game almost completely useless. You need to have a ridiculous score like 3-0-3 just to remain on-par with most other champions as they hit 6.

In comparison to other champions in a similar role, he straight up loses duels to pretty much every other juggernaut post-6, while having significantly worse (virtually no) team fighting capabilities. Even if you're 3-0-3, you'll usually struggle to even 1v1 a 1-4-0 Darius.

Unlike other jungle champions, he doesn't have burst mobility or a ranged engage to get on top of his target before they can notice or react, which makes his ganks especially weak unless the target is severely over extended. This doesn't play well with how important getting fed in the early game is, because you're relying entirely on your opponents being unaware to get successful ganks off.

Having a champion whose entire performance is 100% defined by what happens before level 6 is unhealthy, especially when you're heavily reliant on your team mates and very easily invalidated by any form of mobility or CC.

42 Comments

DuskDaUmbreonNov 5, 20192 votes

"Can't do anything past 6"

So...why does his winrate spike over 25% from 45 minutes to 50 minutes?

YennNov 5, 20192 votes

{quoted}

"Can't do anything past 6"

So...why does his winrate spike over 25% from 45 minutes to 50 minutes?

Because he has 1% pick rate and games with Udyr in them normally don't go past 30 minutes. Turns out statistics with a sample size of 5 games are unreliable.

BeatzBoyFTWNov 5, 20192 votes

1% pickrate is not something to brag about. High winrate alone means nothing when he has such a shitty popularity.

DuskDaUmbreonNov 5, 20192 votes

That is true. However, it still jumps by 25 fucking percent in that 5 minute window, and I was calling OP out on saying "he can't do anything after 6" when clearly people have no problem doing things on him then..

YennNov 5, 20192 votes

{quoted}

That is true. However, it still jumps by 25 fucking percent in that 5 minute window, and I was calling OP out on saying "he can't do anything after 6" when clearly people have no problem doing things on him then..

Did you not find it strange that Udyr has exactly 80% win rate at 45-50 minutes and think 'wow, that's such a nice even number, something must be up with this statistic?'

Maybe you can tab over to Diamond+ and see that he has 100% win rate. Clearly this means that Udyr is actually a hidden OP hyper carry, and it's definitely not just because there has literally been one single game with Udyr that hit 50 minutes and he won it, likely because someone on the enemy team got caught out and not because he did anything, as is the case with every 50 minute game.

This is one of the most idiotic things that I've read in 2019. Udyr having no late game is common knowledge to anyone above Bronze. Provide reasoning as to why you think Udyr is strong in the late game or stop posting, spewing terrible statistics derived from a sample size of 5 games provides no value.

IllabetheNov 5, 20193 votes

:) Or, it simply means that any team with an Udyr that survives to 45-50 minutes is good enough at stalling to carry him long enough to recover an objective lead.

Not saying you're wrong, but that's a possibility too. Plenty of champs have late game spikes who themselves are weak late game, just because they stalled out for their team by clearing. Doesn't make them a viable champ. Just makes them slippery enough to prevent turret loss.

ImTheJuggernautyNov 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Did you not find it strange that Udyr has exactly 80% win rate at 45-50 minutes and think 'wow, that's such a nice even number, something must be up with this statistic?'

Maybe you can tab over to Diamond+ and see that he has 100% win rate. Clearly this means that Udyr is actually a hidden OP hyper carry, and it's definitely not just because there has literally been one single game with Udyr that hit 50 minutes and he won it, likely because someone on the enemy team got caught out and not because he did anything, as is the case with every 50 minute game.

This is one of the most idiotic things that I've read in 2019. Udyr having no late game is common knowledge to anyone above Bronze. Provide reasoning as to why you think Udyr is strong in the late game or stop posting, spewing terrible statistics derived from a sample size of 5 games provides no value.

I have to say, you make some solid points. Unfortunately the guy you're arguing with never gives up a point or admits being wrong, no matter how well you make your argument or how obviously wrong or misleading his original statement was.

ImTheJuggernautyNov 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That is true. However, it still jumps by 25 fucking percent in that 5 minute window, and I was calling OP out on saying "he can't do anything after 6" when clearly people have no problem doing things on him then..

So if say, early game ends around 14 mins, and late game begins around 25-30 mins, and the OP is saying is saying that udyr is effectively useless after level 6 if not already heavily snowballed ahead. In this case, you make an entirely moot point, because that 5 minute window almost NEVER comes. Effectively, if the OP's claims are correct, and I'm not evaluating his/her claims, that means that Udyr would effectively be useless after lever 6, or from mid game onward, regardless of your point. In which, I suspect you are intelligent enough to understand that, but you'd rather not admit you're wrong and would rather just be an ass.

ImTheJuggernautyNov 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

1% pickrate is not something to brag about. High winrate alone means nothing when he has such a shitty popularity.

Not sure why they are downvoting you. You make a good point. And I have no feelings towards udyr in general, I think he's a boring champ, but I'm not going to hate on him or the logical points being made just because of that.

ImTheJuggernautyNov 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

"Can't do anything past 6"

So...why does his winrate spike over 25% from 45 minutes to 50 minutes?

I'm not here to support or deny the OPs claims, but I will mention that your point is irrelevant. Games RARELY EVER make it to 45-50 mins these days. Therefore udyr likely gains very little from that winrate spike because it probably accounts for like 1 in every 25-50 games.

KeiagaNov 5, 20192 votes

Is he a juggernaut? I never saw him as tanky. I never saw him as a big duelist either. I feel like most of his power comes from splitpushing and roaming since bear stance is a nearly permanent Ms boost, tiger is perfect for melting objectives and Phoenix is good for pushing waves. Witha kit like that you don't really need to depend on early game advantages like other assassins

YennNov 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Is he a juggernaut? I never saw him as tanky. I never saw him as a big duelist either. I feel like most of his power comes from splitpushing and roaming since bear stance is a nearly permanent Ms boost, tiger is perfect for melting objectives and Phoenix is good for pushing waves. Witha kit like that you don't really need to depend on early game advantages like other assassins

Split pushing requires you to be able to duel well. Udyr can't duel real split pushers and he doesn't take turrets particularly fast. If Udyr isn't ahead, basically anything other than the support can match his split pushing. The strength of split pushers is that you need more than one person to stop them, letting your team win a 4v3.

This is more of a high elo problem. Udyr is strong against unskilled/unknowledgeable players who don't have good macro. In a high elo game, if you split push, the enemy team will either hard engage, win the 4v5, and end the game, or if they have a split pusher, they'll just match you and push you back.

For example, if both Fiora and Udyr are split pushing, Udyr has to retreat from Fiora. Fiora can push to Udyr's turret and Udyr can't stop her, because he loses the duel. If Fiora manages to get on top of Udyr, she has enough mobility to stop him from disengaging and will likely kill him.

KeiagaNov 5, 20192 votes

Udyr's dueling potential isn't that bad either, and I think you're underselling him when it comes to his split pushing speed. He builds almost all AD with Triforce with a kit that allows him to proc sheen constantly and unlike most other split pushers he can maintain a 110% AS boost for as long as he wants.

He splitpushes as fast as trundle or an ulting nasus, his escape is tricky and hard to catch considering his near permanent MS boost is also a stun if they get too close.

ImTheJuggernautyNov 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Split pushing requires you to be able to duel well. Udyr can't duel real split pushers and he doesn't take turrets particularly fast. If Udyr isn't ahead, basically anything other than the support can match his split pushing. The strength of split pushers is that you need more than one person to stop them, letting your team win a 4v3.

This is more of a high elo problem. Udyr is strong against unskilled/unknowledgeable players who don't have good macro. In a high elo game, if you split push, the enemy team will either hard engage, win the 4v5, and end the game, or if they have a split pusher, they'll just match you and push you back.

For example, if both Fiora and Udyr are split pushing, Udyr has to retreat from Fiora. Fiora can push to Udyr's turret and Udyr can't stop her, because he loses the duel. If Fiora manages to get on top of Udyr, she has enough mobility to stop him from disengaging and will likely kill him.

Strength of split pushing isn't merely about requiring more than one person to stop you, it's also mobility and ability to quickly get in and get out to constantly harass. It's why champs like Darius CAN splitpush effectively in the right situations, but are not considered splitpushers. He can't quickly get in then escape the way udyr can, even though he can duel or even 1v2 in a lot of scenarios. Basically, if the enemy team is paying attention, champs like udyr and mordekaiser are easily caught out and obliterated. Also, udyr can 1v1 a lot more than just supports, though he certainly isn't top or even mid tier for a duelist. Champs like yi, tryn, fiora, jax, etc, just curbstomp him unless like you say, he's massively ahead.

ImTheJuggernautyNov 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Is he a juggernaut? I never saw him as tanky. I never saw him as a big duelist either. I feel like most of his power comes from splitpushing and roaming since bear stance is a nearly permanent Ms boost, tiger is perfect for melting objectives and Phoenix is good for pushing waves. Witha kit like that you don't really need to depend on early game advantages like other assassins

He's definitely a splitpusher and junger objective taker first and foremost, but he is sort of a duelist secondarily, and he has some durability in his kit. Nonetheless, I agree that he's not a juggernaut.

ŚtrongMentalNov 5, 20191 votes

riots pushing udyr into the support role in season 10. sadly, you'll have to play things like Yi, shaco, kha for early win advantage, voli, j4, amumu for late game team advantage, and then if those fail, you'll be forced into the never-ending spiral of gameplay changes that will force these champs out, but never allow udyr to really gain an advantage over the champ pool being pushed in... Welcome the support role! (P.S: with the support role item changes, udyr being played more as a support bruiser with locket, steraks, redemption being core its just smarter than jungling with him sadly)

ŚtrongMentalNov 5, 20191 votes

Lets also not forget that udyr was pushed to the back burner 2 years ago... (and i have the deleted tweets to back it up from ricklessabadon, and riots own responses on the subject in various other places)

BackdoorPrincessNov 5, 20191 votes

If you aren't playing splitpushdyr then honestly you aren't playing him right. I'll run exhaust smite on him so that the enemy jungler can't contest me period, drop an exhaust midlane early or on an invade to get a kill/force a back, camp toplane and cash in on platings, rush riftherald and just overall be a douche with him using lethal tempo instead of pta with the blue-bloodrazor triforce rush. Ideally steraks and deaths dance to top that off but wits end or deadmans/spirit/randuins work as well. Focus objectives and backdooring, with his kit he straight up can't be a juggernaut.

Any additional scaling on his abilities right now would push him into the way overbearing state, his damage is solid right now and as long as you're not an idiot (aka trying to melee duel a darius? who can just use his grab the same time you bear stance to trade stuns and then he straight up wins once he hits 5 stacks). Udyr has always fallen short in the mana category in lane phase because if he didn't he would again, be overbearing with phoenix procs, or tiger/AS procs, or constant shields/regen, which is why he was pseudo relegated to the jungle, so that he can have blue buff and not be a complete douchenozzle to a single laner.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a buff to the old boy, maybe give him some kind of special item like rengar used to have/viktor currently has (like an idol or something that buffs one specific stance depending on choice), or make his stances more synergized (since Darius/Morde/Garen all have some kind of hit x number of times to fukin kill this guy) so that hitting someone with 3 different stances causes x to happen, but it would all come at a cost and quite frankly I'm pretty good with where he is

Hi im 12Nov 5, 20191 votes

udyr isn't weak, a few other junglers are just completely busted :)

IllabetheNov 5, 20191 votes

Udyr is generally outdated, and outdated is a similar complaint to weak.

Skill tapping and autoing isn't exactly a strong kit, especially when 90% of champs have controlling CC. Udyr basically has to use Flash to make a play. He's a good farmer, but he sucks at actually ganking. Decent lane pusher..... but requires other team not to be covering something.

Let me frame it this way: Udyr cannot beat me at all if I go Zyra or Morgana Jungle. And neither are "meta" considered junglers. My CC is better than his; my burst is better than his, and his kit inherently lines up skill shots, because to reach me, he has to pretty much run in a straight line, or he limits the ability of his passive and E to catch up to me. And ofc..... if he gets near me, I can just ult, and hard CC the crap out of him (Morg can just run in circles while ulting Udyr, Q him at the end of the R, and he's dead).

He's one of the only champs in the game who used to be mobile, who no longer really is. Everyone else has gotten faster, more CC, received a lot of dashes, ways to get over walls. He hasn't.

And then there's the fact they nerfed Q from 431% AD to 321% AD, which means a player can actually escape Udyr's Tiger Strike, and the fact Turtle's rework limited how much he can heal.

Hi im 12Nov 5, 20193 votes

[deleted]

IllabetheNov 5, 20191 votes

And yet people who like Udyr are agreeing with me.

Season 4, I mained Udyr.

Hi im 12Nov 5, 20191 votes

oh really people think that the champion they play is weak? what else is new lmao

IllabetheNov 5, 20191 votes

If playing him in Season 4 but not since then is playing him since, guilty. There are a lot of players who identify with Udyr as a person/avatar that represents them. That's me. I just wish the KIT was identifying with me. Until it does, I won't play him. I'll pull 30+ KDA's on Zyra instead. I'll 1 trick Morgana in all roles. I'll dominate with Nami. I'll dominate with Senna.

EedatNov 6, 20191 votes

Oh fuck now I remember you. You are that guy who claims to have high diamond accounts while posting on a 700+ game hardstuck low silver account and can't link or provide any proof that these other accounts exist. Then you unironically expect people to believe it. You always try to bring up my post history?

Whew lad I won't forget next time no worries

[slayer-jinx-wink]

IllabetheNov 6, 20191 votes

I think it speaks volumes that you took ~ 14 hours to remember someone with over 9000 forums posts and lifetime upvotes.

P.S. Not hard stuck. Just dishonored, and screwed over by the removal of Positional ranking. My other three accounts are healthy.... even the one I created during a 2 week ban on this one.

EedatNov 6, 20191 votes

Well thats cute you think I was thinking about you for 14 hours. No, I just happened into this thread and saw the other guy's comment. Really you just arent a very memorable person. Outstandingly bland tbh. The kind of person who uses upvotes in an internet forum as credentials. That's why you slipped my mind

Still keeping the 'high elo alt accounts' charade going? Big fucking yikes. The vast majority of people arent that dumb

IllabetheNov 6, 20191 votes

I don't care what you think. I care what I know :) I also don't use upvotes as credentials nor care..... 60% of my threads actually get stalker downvotes and I still go 7-8 replies to them.

I'm an educator. I use accurate numbers, accurate arguments, without general bias, and that's what I care about. If I'm wrong and someone presents an argument that substantially proves I'm wrong, I'll cede that I'm wrong, because that's what an educator is; someone is equally gifted at both learning and teaching. The very fact that I don't cede to narcissistic, egotistical you, should speak volumes.

EedatNov 6, 20191 votes

Are you actually calling me a narcissist after what you just said? Go back and reread how hard you just jerked yourself off lol

Let me correct you. You are not this great educator that you claim to be. That is a false persona you are trying to project on to others. In other words that is what you want to be seen as, not how you are actually perceived. Hate to burst your bubble, but obviously you are seen to other people as that hardstuck low silver guy who lies about having high ELO accounts to jerk off his ego. You desperately want to be that guy. You want to be the guy with all the answers. The one who is good at the game. The one everyone respects. But you aren't. In fact, now you're known for the complete opposite lol

Which is especially hilarious because when someone calls out your rank you tell them to address the argument and not your rank. Yet you repeatedly reference your fake high ELO account as merit towards your arguments other times when it's convenient to you.

In an attempt to keep this persona going, you point to fake qualifications and achievements. For example, referencing blatantly fake high ELO accounts. Or pointing out how many up votes and posts you make as credibilty when they mean nothing. You then try using a technique I call "leaving yourself an out" where a person makes a statement or claim while leaving themselves deniability. In your case, you blatantly obviously are trying to state number of posts and votes as credibilty while following up by saying you don't use up votes as credentials. The obvious intent was to use them as credentials while leaving yourself room to deny it later. This technique is very similar to the humblebrag where a person is "not bragging", but in reality are trying to brag.

I don't even understand why you tried using this on me because if you actually took the two seconds to check you would realize it's not in your favor

I say fake high ELO accounts because they obviously do not exist. I feel the need to tell you that repeating the lie over and over again does not convince people otherwise. Let me break down what you are expecting us to believe. You are expecting us to believe that someone who is posting from an account that is 700+ games hardstuck low silver this season alone is actually a high Diamond smurf. This person then absolutely refuses to take 60 seconds to prove their claim beyond a shadow of a doubt by just logging into it and posting from it. This person refuses to instantly shut all the neigh sayers with almost no effort and insists we just believe them anyway. You refuse because you can't. Your diamond 2 account doesn't exist. It would take mere moments to shut everyone up and yet you can't do it.

Then you seriously, unironically think people will believe this obvious and blatant lie you tell if you just say it enough times lol. You're fucking nuts. Just so you are aware, it is so incredibly easy for me and everyone else to see you are a lieing. You need to get it out of your head that anyone is going to believe you when you are so incredibly bad at lying. The jig is up. The jury is out. That's why people call you out every single time.

IllabetheNov 7, 20191 votes

....... And you are so far down the rabbit hole you no longer can get out.

Congrats on your delusions.

EedatNov 7, 20191 votes

The only delusion is you thinking that people would actually believe a 700+ game hardstuck low silver player is diamond 2

IllabetheNov 7, 20191 votes

Just like my 2 200/970 game PBE accounts, 140 game 2 week ban account, 1344 game D II account, and all my TFT play as well....

Maybe you should crunch some math on the per year capacity to play.

I also have clocked 1124 hours on Path of Exile this year.

I also work 12 hour shifts 57% of the year's days. I also raise a 4 year old with Autism named August. I also "raise" my wife. I also actively manage a small greenhouse, which I'm using as a blueprint to build a process to hopefully turn commercial within 2-3 years and build on my father's 400 acre owned/600 acre crop shared farm. I'm also an investor. I somehow own a $240k house in an area where per capita income averages out at $26300.

I also REALLY don't care WHAT you think.

EedatNov 7, 20191 votes

Look at you go xD

And you say ***I'm *** the narcissist? Do you actually think piling it on higher makes people believe you? Let me guess, you are also an ex navy seal with a medal of honor and volunteer your weekends at an orphanage xD

You want the math?

Work: 104 days Sleep: 106.5 days PoE: 46.8 days Assuming 40 minutes a game between matchmaking, champ select, occasional dodges and remakes, and game time LoL: 88.9 days

These alone add up to 346 days of the year. Throw 'managing a greenhouse' 'raising my wife' (the actual fuck?), a kid, and all the other horse shit you threw in. That's not even factoring in getting ready, commute, eating, bathing, restroom, etc. Father of the year "raising a child with a disability" 3 minutes a week xD

Do you see why everyone thinks you're full of shit now? Because you pathologically lie about everything over and over and over. You don't even make good lies. You make them so blatantly obvious that it cringes reading them.

It is fascinating though. Do you mind telling me what goes through your head when you make this stuff up and actually expect people to believe it?

ImTheJuggernautyNov 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Udyr is generally outdated, and outdated is a similar complaint to weak.

Skill tapping and autoing isn't exactly a strong kit, especially when 90% of champs have controlling CC. Udyr basically has to use Flash to make a play. He's a good farmer, but he sucks at actually ganking. Decent lane pusher..... but requires other team not to be covering something.

Let me frame it this way: Udyr cannot beat me at all if I go Zyra or Morgana Jungle. And neither are "meta" considered junglers. My CC is better than his; my burst is better than his, and his kit inherently lines up skill shots, because to reach me, he has to pretty much run in a straight line, or he limits the ability of his passive and E to catch up to me. And ofc..... if he gets near me, I can just ult, and hard CC the crap out of him (Morg can just run in circles while ulting Udyr, Q him at the end of the R, and he's dead).

He's one of the only champs in the game who used to be mobile, who no longer really is. Everyone else has gotten faster, more CC, received a lot of dashes, ways to get over walls. He hasn't.

And then there's the fact they nerfed Q from 431% AD to 321% AD, which means a player can actually escape Udyr's Tiger Strike, and the fact Turtle's rework limited how much he can heal.

Yeah, I have to agree, a champ like him is too linear and too reliant on speed boost mobility for a champion with effectively zero range of abilities and autos. Even darius has a better time because of that. With the way this game is going, with more and more CC and dashes, MS, etc, as you mentioned, even champs like darius and udyr will need some form of mobility or tenacity buff to even stay slightly relevant. Sure, juggernauts should have limited mobility, but that concept now needs to be taken RELATIVELY. Juggernauts now basically need either some decent MS buffs, or limited dashes, because more and more champs like ekko, senna, kaisa, zyra, etc, are making it not simply difficult, but IMPOSSIBLE to approach without ghost and flash. Sure, darius maintains a fair winrate in solo Q right now, but he has pretty much zero pro play presence, and it's easy to feel that he's slipping more and more with each rework and new champ release. Soon, there will be too much mobility and he will need more than simple damage numbers buffs. Either he'll need significant durability buffs, or some form of inherent, but relatively limited MS buff or gap closer. With every new release and new champ having multiple ways to cover their own weaknesses and having extremely overloaded kits, it's no longer acceptable to leave champs like darius or udyr with the old concepts of having true strengths and truly exploitable weaknesses. I'd rather it be that way, but let's face it, riot isn't changing their direction anytime soon, sad to say.

IllabetheNov 5, 20191 votes

I'll be honest: I've pushed an Udyr rework in the past too.

BUT; I feel the upcoming season is an indirect Udyr buff. The drakes all favor him. The Cloud/Infernal/Ocean Drakes all create favorable situations which indirectly buff him more than many other champions (less walls, more bushes, move speed boosting zones)

I'd hold on until we see how Elementals affect his performance.

ImTheJuggernautyNov 5, 20191 votes

Udyr isn't a juggernaut though as far as I'm aware.

IllabetheNov 5, 20191 votes

Wiki classifies him as one.

ImTheJuggernautyNov 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Wiki classifies him as one.

I suppose, but he doesn't really fit imo. He has more speed and mobility in general than most, needs to build more damage than most, and has less inherent combo of defensive abilities and sustain. He's a bit more dps and doesn't really have in-kit damage conditions other than to combo. If he's a juggernaut, I'd argue he has the least unique juggernaut factors of all juggernauts in the class.

YennNov 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I suppose, but he doesn't really fit imo. He has more speed and mobility in general than most, needs to build more damage than most, and has less inherent combo of defensive abilities and sustain. He's a bit more dps and doesn't really have in-kit damage conditions other than to combo. If he's a juggernaut, I'd argue he has the least unique juggernaut factors of all juggernauts in the class.

He's 100% a juggernaut. He builds the exact same items as juggernauts and functions in the exact same way, but poorly. You're just listing the reasons that he underperforms as a juggernaut. He has slightly more consistent mobility because he doesn't have any range. Darius has Apprehend, Nasus has Wither, Mundo has cleavers, etc. In terms of DPS, post-6 Nasus and Mundo are both examples of champions who out-perform Udyr.

{quoted}

Strength of split pushing isn't merely about requiring more than one person to stop you, it's also mobility and ability to quickly get in and get out to constantly harass. It's why champs like Darius CAN splitpush effectively in the right situations, but are not considered splitpushers. He can't quickly get in then escape the way udyr can, even though he can duel or even 1v2 in a lot of scenarios. Basically, if the enemy team is paying attention, champs like udyr and mordekaiser are easily caught out and obliterated. Also, udyr can 1v1 a lot more than just supports, though he certainly isn't top or even mid tier for a duelist. Champs like yi, tryn, fiora, jax, etc, just curbstomp him unless like you say, he's massively ahead.

This is only relevant to low elo. I've already explained why he's not a viable split pusher in high elo unless he's extremely ahead; if the enemy team has a higher tier champion or literally any other juggernaut, they'll just match you and win, and half of them have enough mobility to catch and kill you. If you want to split push, Olaf or Yi do a much better job than Udyr.

Split pushing is completely ineffective if you're just clearing the wave and immediately retreating, because someone you can't duel is holding the turret/inhibitor, and your team fight is non-existent, so you can't join your team to win a 5v4. It's worse when you consider that the champion holding the turret likely has Teleport.

IllabetheNov 5, 20191 votes

Tbh in high elo, they build him almost exclusively Tank now. He used to build AD and perhaps builds it in low elo, but in any situation where he has to trade, Frozen Heart etc tends to go further. About the only AD items High elo Udyr builds is Triforce and maybe a Sterak's (which is also tank)

His kit is more like a smirmisher. But, most Skirmishers have been reworked with kits that actually beat his. Yi for example when played correctly can 100% counter Udyr now. So can Lee Sin, because Lee Sin's budget has all been shoved into his Q, and away from actually trading.

So in the process of adapting to not having a new kit, he's started building Juggernaut.