We Need More Champions Like Draven

Meep Man··121 votes·7,853 views

And no, I'm not talking about the personality. I'm talking about his design. Draven has this special way of playing called "Juggling" that makes him a lot different than other ADCs. It makes him difficult to play, but it pays off so much with that 85% increased damage at Rank 5. Some people like "Juggling", while others don't. HOWEVER, it isn't that they don't like it because it's clunky or bad or anything like that. People don't like it because they just don't like it. They don't like the juggling movement pattern and attack pattern and such. They want something else. This is what should be wanted in every champion. A kit that DOES NOT appeal to the grand majority, but a smaller minority of players. A kit that plays differently from every other champion in the game and has a different style of play. Not a kit that doesn't appeal because it's strange or clunky, but because it just doesn't fit what the player wants to do in the game. That is exactly the type of champions we need. We need more Dravens.

EDIT: I think people are a little confused about what I'm saying here at times. I want champions to accomplish their goals in a different way from everyone else. Because they do this in a different way, they can be unappealing to other players who DON'T want to accomplish their end goal in that way. For example, say the end goal for two champions is: Deal Damage to the Enemy Team. Now let's get more specific. Say they are both ADCs and want to deal damage. The goal is for them to be different. So, let's say we make Champion #1 deal damage by shooting the enemy, but has limited ammo. Let's say this is Jhin. Now, we have to create Champion #2. Champion #2 deals his damage in a unique way from Jhin, even though Jhin is unique still. Champion #2, let's say, has a passive that splits himself into two separate units with different spells. You have to micro manage these units to deal optimal damage. This might not be what people want to do to achieve their goal, and some of those people will like Jhin.

Basically, in this game where there are 130 champions, each champion should be unique enough to really CLICK with one certain person and no one else. This way, everyone has a champion that fits their play style EXACTLY, but is likely not a champion others can play. Every player needs a champion like Draven who clicks with them, but is not popular mainly because players outside his player base just don't like how he plays.

138 Comments

underscores22255 votes

New champions that come out usually have something different about them. Just off the top of my head:

Bard Roaming support (chimes, meeps, magical journey) AurelionSol Orbiting star passive for 75% of his damage output Illaoi Tentacles Jhin Ammo and 4 counts Kalista Rabbit Kindred Jungle ADC (monster marks, wolf zone) TahmKench Eating

Riot is trying to create new champs that are different and have different playstyles, as well as update older champions who play similarly to other champions. I think they're doing rather well overall.

The 99th Problem8 votes

Amen. And atop this, they just had a marksman update a few months ago for this exact reason you're describing.

Chaotic Reks3 votes

Velkoz Tentacles

Chogath eating

Meep Man7 votes

Bard, Illaoi, Jhin, and Kindred sure. Aurelion and Kalista are that in between for me, where they are kind of half way unique to where they have a lot unique about them but they aren't just super, extremely different playing than others. They don't play entirely differently over others of the same class. I disagree with Tahm Kench though. He adds a new mechanic, being the Eating of course, but does he just play extremely differently from other champions? Not really, especially with recent changes adding more and more "Build the 3 stacks" mechanic. Not quite anywhere near a Draven to me.

The main point I was trying to make was you SHOULDN'T be able to jump into a champion and within 2 games know their play style from playing a different champion.

EDIT: I change what I say about Kalista, she is up there now that I think about her link mechanic and everything.

OneSmoothDude3 votes

GP has his barrels. Yasuo has his dashes. Naut has his auto root. Garen is the game's only anti-carry with his Villain passive. Rek'sai has her tremor sense. Zed has his shadows while Taric makes allies effectively his shadows. Azir has his soldiers and self-made turrets. Braum has a movable projectile-stopping wall. Malz has voidlings. Graves has his pellets.

Not all of these are as mechanically difficult as Draven's schtick, but plenty of champions (newer ones especially) have plenty of uniqueness to them.

Meep Man3 votes

Gangplank This I can agree with. Only GP has the barrel minigame to interact with his opponents on. Yasuo Yasuo is another half-way thing for me. The fact that I can take what you said and put it on someone else means Yasuo isn't unique enough in how he does what he does. Lee has his dashes. Renekton has his dashes. Give me a reason I can't apply to others. Nautilus While unique, it's not a big enough reason to say he is unique. It's a small, yet satisfying part of his kit. Needed, but not the reason you pick him. Garen This is another one, but is less visible. Garen plays a lot differently than others (usually) since he has to hunt a target determined by the game. Garen falls into a category of various niches I call "Hunters". A lot of champions these days, actually hunt a selected champion. It's just how they do it that makes them unique. Garen is not like other Hunters, so he is unique. Could be more unique, 100%, but he is unique.

I think people are confused about what I'm saying. Not mechanically hard, but different. A champion doesn't need to be hard to be different, but that sometimes comes with it. Draven is a lot DIFFERENT from other ADCs. Therefore he is unique.

XxXGwanXxX2 votes

Yasuo is the only Champ that is permanently in URF mode lol. He has kind of half a kit on his E and Q. They are really not that usefull but the fact they are on such a low cd makes it seem like they are his autos. It's pretty hard to expplain I hope you understand what I mean

macromite1 votes

TahmKench eating

item 3070 Chogath item 3070

Wînter Fox45 votes

That seems to be the direction Riot is going. Take the Mage update for example: Ziggs blows up turrets with satchels, Brand blows up champions with combos, and Cass...blows.

Erdamon39 votes

On the side note, Vlad sucks...

Blood.

Wimbledofy3 votes

i mean he's not a vampire so he doesn't really do that, he's a blood mage.

FantasySniper4 votes

I'm pretty sure that sucking sounds would happen when you pull blood out of veins.

ARequestOfDeath1 votes

he doesn't drink blood because he is a vampire. he extracts the life essence from the blood itself.

ColdRebuke1 votes

how is this like draven?

Meep Man2 votes

Allow me to explain, because (especially with Ziggs) he is correct.

Let me break it down:

  1. You enter a game and you have a role. Whether that be Tank, Fighter, Mage, etc.
  2. You look at your champion and know what you want to be doing. This should be a lot easier to do with Subclasses. (Side note that they need to add the unique classes of Ganker and Pusher IMO)
  3. From there, you see how exactly you will be doing what you want to do.
  4. Do that.
  5. If what you did can be directly compared, even slightly, to any other champion in the way you did it (and not outcome, but the process itself), this is not a unique champion (and therefore not a Draven)

Ziggs, for example, is different now. Before, his objective was really just push waves with spells and then use his passive to deal more damage to a tower. He was a pretty generic Mage Pusher. Now, this method can be a lot different. Instead of using his spells entirely to push the wave, he can now do something unique, being executing towers. Ziggs can now HIT AND RUN towers so to speak. His W new mechanic is powerful and unique enough to warrant a change in play among Ziggs to become perhaps a dedicated Pusher mage. Before, it was AoE Mage. Now it is really Pusher Mage. I want Riot to continue this trend and maybe even expand upon this with Ziggs, giving him more potential Pushing mechanics.

Dengeden2 votes

I'm going to cackle like a madman when she becomes fotm...

Erdamon17 votes

Well there was already Draven Day where everyone had a Draven head so I guess that's half the wish granted.

Curling Veigar9 votes

Tyler1 lol

MilfHuntUnitXJ96 votes

There are quite a few champions like this, some even being "meta" champions. I know what you're saying, and I have seen a lot of this in recent reworks and champions.

Here's a few examples. Gangplank Graves Jhin Zac Syndra Zyra Heimerdinger Swain Vladimir Cassiopeia Singed

All these offer at least one of the following or both: -A unique playstyle from a Strategic standpoint -A unique kit

In many ways I agree with you, they do need to make more unique champions. In turn this gives those champs a limited playerbase but they have good and unique kits.

Elewd1 votes

sadly half the champs in here will only be meta if they are "overpowered" because their playstyle is so vastly different from others. I play a ton of Zyra because i love the whole plant turret style gameplay with lots of planning and strategy of where to place my plants and whatnot, but many people hate that about her playstyle.

Jeffreak151 votes

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Elewd5 votes

she still has the strategy with her W placing plants, Please recheck it, its still there, now she just gets more bonus plants and has a passive that actually fits with her kit instead of "when i die" because that passive was straight up garbage for her.

Im not really sure why you would consider her not unique after the update she is getting, her playstyle is hardly changing. her passive is the same thing as illaois? they use their passives completly different in the essence of their kits.

Jeffreak151 votes

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Elewd1 votes

you havn't been keeping up with zyras update at all so i stopped reading after the first 2 lines. She no longer spawns seeds if shes out of combat in brush. you can only see her seeds if you have vision of them. Her W seeds last 60 seconds compared to the 45seconds her passive seeds do, grant vision and have the old step on get sight of them. She still has the strategy with placing her plants, yea you get passive ones but sometimes they will be in a bad spot so placing a surefire plant somewhere is far better than "its just rng the whole time". I've been a zyra player since her release, i've been following her update to the last note.

Karma Deified4 votes

Micro-managing isn't fun.

invisiblecat14 votes

depends on the person, if you hate micro-managing and you don't do it, Draven will easily have the lowest damage compared to other champions, but with this micromanaging, you can do the most (or close to) the highest damage of all adcs

crippler383 votes

I think it's hard to beat draven's over 300% damage crits with a strong inbuilt attack speed steroid

just saying I don't think any adc beats him in just raw damage.

Billy VoHagen3 votes

Some people find it fun, like people who play Starcraft.

ZeeWolfZ3 votes

Champions that take skill? Rito disagrees! Veigar now builds AP stacks for ANY ability hit on a champion. Ult is now does more dmg to ALL targets for missing health. Still a point click.

ColdRebuke9 votes

tank viegar top incoming, prepare butthole.

kile1472 votes

I think the change was to make him more unique from Nasus, and to modify his laning pattern to create more opportunities for power at the cost of risk. If you think about it they really made him more difficult because now to maximize your stacks sitting back and farming in lane isn't enough, you need to be aggressive and pressure the enemy laner as well, which is risky behavior for a champ with a subpar early game.

The Illithid2 votes

... and as a mage, which means he gets max mana but very, very little mana regen. So he has to consistently pressure them while also being sure to have mana. With no blue pots because they are gone, and no other mana regen because that is for supports now

TotalJerk19 votes

{quoted}

Veigar now builds AP stacks for ANY ability hit on a champion.

That will hardly mean much in a solo lane, but it is a massive buff to support Veigar

AninLegions7773 votes

Won't mean much? Lool. Rush this item 3070 and start spamming your abilities. Think about it. Hitting a champ with a spell is wayyy easier than killing a minion. So expect easier 1k AP Veigars now.

Nanuk Pihoqahiak10 votes

But if you're frequently landing abilities, you figure they'd be dead after a few of them. So they wouldn't even be in lane often enough for you to stack off of. It SOUNDS good, but really think about it.

Decrit1 votes

Remember that Veigar won't have anymore his oldpassive. They reduced mana costs, but he still can't keep a spamming regime.

AninLegions7771 votes

What the guy below said. He can go RoA and Tears and wreck lane. Infinite spamming machine. He basically just Qs anything that moves. 30 mins and one Deathcap later, ult = 2k dmg. GG

Decrit1 votes

don' t you think that' s a bit too early to tell without trying? What i did say was based on the theory behind its kit, but i did not admit that he was or not broken, just that there was something holding him.

AninLegions7771 votes

PBE access. Tested by me. getting the initial gold is quite hard but after thsoe two items, it's gg from then on.

Decrit1 votes

.... you know how pbe works, you might be trying to win but the others might not.

AninLegions7771 votes

Yes this is true. But I wasn't trying to win. I was testing two lane strategies. First, how much AP I get by trying to last hit minions with Q and trying to hit champions with spells. Obviously sometimes I last hit minions and hit champs at the same time but not too often. I noticed that the former strategy yielded more AP in the long run while the latter yielded more AP at levels 1-7/8. Since early game is really important in this current state of league, the latter is the best.

Decrit1 votes

Oh, i see your point then.

Well, it is not big news that you can modulate between farming early and eatly aggression with Veigar, but i give you credit for if you think it' s broken.

But honestly, i am more worried about having a cassio passive 2.0 rather it being broken

AninLegions7771 votes

I'm worried because Cassio's former passive was hard to attain but OP when you got it. Now it will be easier for him to attain it making him broken. I foresee future nerfs.

Sypher The Poro3 votes

I find Riven to be a good example of this as well. While she has a higher player base than Draven (Because flashy plays) her animation canceling also gives her a fairly high skill floor.

Most players do not want to dedicate so much time and effort into learning her ins and outs or the various combos, but those that do enjoy the "Street Fighter" feel of correctly chaining your abilities in order to beat your opponent.

Elewd3 votes

her animation cancling is on almost everyone with an auto attack reset in their kits. riven really doesnt take much to play =\

Sypher The Poro6 votes

Here's a combo I use to kill someone early game where I don't have much damage.

ER > WQ > Auto > Q2 > Auto > Q3 > R2 > Auto

ER removes the animation of Riven stopping to pull out her sword, this also stops her from stunning herself while the animation plays.

After casting E, you can shortly use either W or R along with Q to "Doublecast". This allows Riven to use 2 abilities at the same time, overlapping their animations. I use WQ because it stuns my target at the same time I use Q while also canceling my auto animation if I time it correctly.

Anytime I use Q on my target, I take the cursor off them and issue a move command on the ground by clicking and then immediately put my mouse back on them and click to issue an attack command. This has to be done while still in the animation of Q, and doing so removes the self stun allowing you to auto attack slightly sooner. This is known as "Fast Q".

Example of Fast Q: https://49.media.tumblr.com/2369f9e3d26d8efd7fa771671615d3dd/tumblr_n7hm3ov6Qy1qd16pfo1_500.gif

I then use Q3, the knockup, before using R2, Windslash, so my target is CC'ed and cannot flash out of my ultimate.

Here's a mid/late-game assassin combo known as "The Shy" combo, since it was created by a Korean challenger named "The Shy". They are considered to have the smoothest animation canceling ever seen.

The combo goes: ER > Flash > W > Auto > Tiamat/Hydra > R2 > Q

Video of the combo only without the ER > Flash setup: https://youtu.be/WSNjGMOT7S4

Learning Riven is a lot more complicated than orb walking.

ColdRebuke3 votes

I think the learning might be more difficult, but over all once you have it down shes probs easier? Actually kiting multiple tanks all gunning for you while also dodging zed shuricans etc is not easy and riven doesnt have that problem to the same degree.

Shes not meta right now, but will be soon and you can go back to diving mages for fun.

Sypher The Poro2 votes

You could say the same for any champion. Draven, what this topic is about, is super easy once you learn how his axes behave and good Draven's will often know exactly where the axe is going to land the second they throw it.

Of course Riven get's easier the more time you put into her, and she does have the tools to out-play 2/3 people if you play correctly. I can do the Fast Q combo without even thinking about it now. But I do not think she is easier than the majority of other champions.

Champions I would put in an "easy" list: Malzahar Annie XinZhao

These guys outplay you by existing. Meanwhile, as Riven I need to be preforming my combos perfectly to even survive in lane against anyone of equal skill level.

ColdRebuke1 votes

adc is the hardest role. draven is the hardest adc....draven harder than riven. draven isnt easy. his mechanics arent the most difficult, tru, but his role certainly is and adding even more mechanics into the adc role is going to make him one of the hardest champions to play.

Sypher The Poro1 votes

I would not say ADC is the hardest role, if anything Jungle is because your map presence is more important than "kill minions until you 2-shot anything." Late-game being an ADC is all about positioning, not mechanics.

Also, Draven harder than Riven? How? His axes go in the direction you are walking, so anyone that plays Draven can easily predict where they are going to land 100% of the time.

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