Game's imbalance is off the charts. The balance team's solution: nerf Heimer and Kayle

Blåbæret·Jan 10, 2018·69 votes·2,519 views

So ya.

What exactly are they being paid for?

69 Comments

AhristocatsJan 10, 201843 votes

nerf blitz instead of alistar buff jinx mid game instead of nerfing other adc's mid game buff supports instead of top lane

[sg-lux-2]

An DraoiJan 10, 201819 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=caJRtmvt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-10T00:46:45.417+0000)

nerf blitz instead of alistar buff jinx mid game instead of nerfing other adc's mid game buff supports instead of top lane

[sg-lux-2]

What's a mid game?

TheThundersRoarJan 10, 201828 votes

The 7 minute mark.

BhagswagJan 10, 20188 votes

Second minion wave

Tails9016Jan 10, 20186 votes

Thought that was end game

Around999PeopleJan 10, 20182 votes

3 key support items being removed but it's a buff? o,o Do explain

General Esdeath Jan 11, 20181 votes

It's a free sightstone

woodvsmurphJan 11, 20182 votes

free sightstone and i think riot believes this will stop other roles (mostly jg and top) abusing support items plus klepto for insane gold income since the items don't build into something useful other than sightstone now; it won't work though because gold income from base item is enough to make it worthwhile in most cases

Crusader4213Jan 11, 20184 votes

I've heard tales of those "midgames" of which you speak... from season 4 I believe...but I can't confirm if it's a real thing or not.

Bob the ToastrJan 11, 20181 votes

Ah, yes. I started back at the end of Season 4 and I believe I saw one of these fabled "midgames" you speak of. I only caught a glimpse before it was gone forever.

MetalGearTeemoJan 11, 20181 votes

Vayne has a BF sword and a zeal we're moving into late game boiz. [vayne-pose]

Darius StradaJan 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=caJRtmvt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-10T00:46:45.417+0000)

nerf blitz instead of alistar buff jinx mid game instead of nerfing other adc's mid game buff supports instead of top lane

[sg-lux-2]

they're support tho

T4underboltJan 10, 20182 votes

Blitz is actually retarded. Unless in your opinion having 0 ap and targon shield and kindlegem should give you ability to 100-0 a squishy.

AhristocatsJan 11, 20181 votes

it should not

but if it doesn't happen then i see nothing wrong

T4underboltJan 12, 20181 votes

It does happen. I have even death recap screenshot proving that. Keep denying the truth.

AhristocatsJan 12, 20182 votes

what prevented you from posting it?

i have a blitz montage and everytime i did Q+E+R i never solokilled anyone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enjz4fDG3yo

everytime i either killed someone low, or had the help of my allies so tell me how is it possible? i can even do the math for you if you want

TiboldJan 10, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=caJRtmvt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-10T00:46:45.417+0000)

nerf blitz instead of alistar buff jinx mid game instead of nerfing other adc's mid game buff supports instead of top lane

[sg-lux-2]

Taric too needs nerfs. And Leona. And Maokai. And Janna.

woodvsmurphJan 11, 20181 votes

Taric for sure, maokai maybe - see what changes to aftershock do to him first. Janna yes.

The WhamboozlerJan 10, 201828 votes

You want to understand how the team at Riot works?

Ok, here's the big solution. Kayle and Heimer aren't popular.

BAM! That's the big reason. Kayle and Heimer are kinda cheese but upsetting their playerbase will not hurt league's bottom line. There aren't many Heimer or Kayle mains out there, and a lot of the people playing them are doing it just to cheese people... they'll move right on to the next big thing once they're nerfed. But nerfing a super popular champ or GOD HELP YOU the new one that they're still trying to push on everyone? That might cause profit loss or an unacceptably high level of customer anger... so they won't.

It's the same reason Yasuo has gotten so many skins since release but other champs like Zac or A-Sol languish with so few. Because just like high school... it's ultimately all about popularity. Always.

BlakiepugJan 10, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Whamboozler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=caJRtmvt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-01-10T01:03:06.279+0000)

You want to understand how the team at Riot works?

Ok, here's the big solution. Kayle and Heimer aren't popular.

BAM! That's the big reason. Kayle and Heimer are kinda cheese but upsetting their playerbase will not hurt league's bottom line. There aren't many Heimer or Kayle mains out there, and a lot of the people playing them are doing it just to cheese people... they'll move right on to the next big thing once they're nerfed. But nerfing a super popular champ or GOD HELP YOU the new one that they're still trying to push on everyone? That might cause profit loss or an unacceptably high level of customer anger... so they won't.

It's the same reason Yasuo has gotten so many skins since release but other champs like Zac or A-Sol languish with so few. Because just like high school... it's ultimately all about popularity. Always.

Yeah, this is the same reason they continue to rework old champions since their player bases are so small that they feel like hurting their player base is not a big deal. Similarly, I believe it to be the reason why they "fake" announced a mini Yasuo rework only to sweep it under the rug and declare it cancelled a month later.

The WhamboozlerJan 10, 20187 votes

Yeah... that whole thing was pretty sketchy, wasn't it?

But you don't need to tell me... I used to be a Skarner main. Riot didn't give two shits EITHER of the times it's gutted and ruined one of my favorite junglers. Almost every skarner player was against the skarner changes... but that wasn't many people, so Riot didn't care. They did the same thing to Cassiopeia too... Gave her a shit rework her players didn't want.

Granted, they've gotten better at the reworks... sorta. Sion's went well. Poppy's too, but she plays a LOT different now, so I'm sure her mains were just as upset. The WW and Eve reworks are pretty good too. Galio was... okay. He's kinda overtuned now. The Fiora one I STILL freaking hate, but that's more because I hate her new art and in-game model not her new kit.

The point isn't that Riot always does bad reworks. The point is that Riot doesn't care about you or your champion unless it's a popular, mainstream one with a large fanbase... and THOSE champions are basically protected from being messed with beyond minor tweaks that people will STILL rage about. Yasuo isn't getting a rework. Not ever. He IS gonna get MORE new skins tho, because the weeb-market is strong and Yasuo sells skins.

Got a niche or underused champ that you're fond of? Don't get too attached to them, because sooner or later Riot will toss them in the shredder and rebuild them from the mangled parts and NO ONE will care but you.

TokogawarufJan 11, 20182 votes

As an Old Yorick Jungle Player, this is EXACLY what i felt the 2 Months before and after his Rework.

Granted, I almost never play him anymore because i almost never play Top. Still hurts to this day

The WhamboozlerJan 11, 20183 votes

Oof. A Yorick player? I'm sorry man, and I feel your pain. Riot NEVER cared about you. Yorick got dumped into the trash pile a long time ago and they always had "better things to do" than to fix him. Then one day they looked at him, realized that all of five people played him regularly and said "man, we can rework this guy without anyone important giving a shit" and they did.

I'm sorry for your loss. Riot was against you almost from his inception. Alas, poor Yorick indeed.

Crusader4213Jan 11, 20181 votes

Well said, hard to believe so few people can see this.

Sraeg2013Jan 10, 201813 votes

If I got a dollar for every time I've seen Kayle or Heimer in the past year I'd have to sell my car to the repo man half a year ago.

TengenToppaGnarJan 10, 201812 votes

... They're nerfing Kayle and Heimer cause of Tilterella, you know that Challenger with more than 3 Challenger accounts, lmao.

Yeah he has vids using those 2.

BlåbæretJan 10, 201812 votes

Gta love it man. The balance team spending all their time watching Twitch and YT vids. Legit.

Imperial JapanJan 10, 20183 votes

Kayle was extremely good for those specialists who had 60% win rates

BobaFlautistJan 10, 20184 votes

Don't forget Heisendong.

Heim actually had pretty ridiculous burst on his tower; considering that it's not supposed to be his upfront damage option I think it totally makes sense to tone it down .

RocketRelmJan 11, 20182 votes

Imo, for Heimerdinger, Ult-Q was correct 95% of the time, Ult-W correct 5% of the time, and once in two dozen games might you want to Ult-E.

I think the balance has shifted to 70%-30%-0% now, but I haven't played enough donger (read: any) post-nerf to tell for sure how impactful it is.

Ult-Q was so strong both because it had high burst, and also doesn't cost a Q, whereas Ult-W and Ult-E cost the normal spell. Thusly, you could just standard E for most all ult-E situations, and W+Ult-Q gave you almost as much burst as Ult-W, but also left you with the mega cannon. He might now need power infusion elsewhere into his kit, I'm not sure, but the absolute dominance of Ult-Q was a thing.

BârdJan 11, 20182 votes

Apex Turret is still the best upgrade, if only because all other options are mediocre.

Rocket swarm takes long enough to come out that, unless you've stunned somebody at point blank, you aren't gonna land the whole thing without help.

The Dongbomb is a good spell, but it doesn't enhance the grenade enough to justify upgrading it. You only really use it for the increased range.

Troll for TrumpJan 11, 20181 votes

If you look carefully, they didn't nerf that; they nerfed the beam dmg.

Yes it is kinda an issue, but it wasn't addressed.

MetalGearTeemoJan 11, 20181 votes

We gonna nerf dravon because tyler1 can get challenger on 10x accounts using him?

I mean... his ban basically proved he can.

ModWulf HelhammerJan 10, 20186 votes

Nerfed Heimer at the request of request of bruiser mains. You know, one of the classes struggling the most right now?

And did you miss the part where it's a buff at max rank for Kayle? Or is that just something you chose to ignore because it doesn't fit your view?

AhristocatsJan 10, 201841 votes

heimer has 2% pick rate

if you want to help bruisers you would nerf comet, klepto, Maokai Ornn Shen Jayce

give bruisers +12 magic resistance again

you're not helping them by nerfing a champion that is never picked

BlåbæretJan 10, 201814 votes

The balance team is probably just nerfing and buffing at random to prove that they're doing something. But that something again proves that they don't know what they're doing.

TheProfezzorJan 10, 20187 votes

Gotta say I don’t see much Kayla or heimer.

SangreDeNocheJan 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Gotta say I don’t see much Kayla or heimer.

I didn't know they were even viable this season because I haven't seen them at all outside of heim in arurf.

Troll for TrumpJan 11, 20181 votes

Kayle is underrated good with lethal tempo, she just needs time to ramp up, which she doesn't get right now. That doesn't mean she's weak.

General TherittJan 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=caJRtmvt,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-01-10T00:56:13.675+0000)

heimer has 2% pick rate

if you want to help bruisers you would nerf comet, klepto,

OR

give bruisers +12 magic resistance again

you're not helping them by nerfing a champion that is never picked

Deep confusion... Maokai is not what I would consider anything strong against bruisers. Mao has this problem right now where he can be easily snowballed over if the opponent gets even one kill against him. He just relies on his opponents stupidity to punish a target for getting close enough for him to perform his full combo. Items just make him incredibly annoying to put down. If he builds RoA for damage, he is burning time where he could purchase far more important items, and if he builds full tank, just farm. Legit, Maokai's mana is garbage for farming, considering his Q is his bread and butter and spamming it will eat through your mana. Farm, pull back, outscale him, and then force him down lategame because unless he is within W range, he will not be able to advance without his ultimate backing him. If you want to go hard early, do that, but do not fight him near tower. A good maokai will punish you with a W into Q backwards into tower, and good luck escaping. Do either of those tactics, and Maokai is just a snorefest, which is why I love him. He makes laning either face him and burst him early, go for aggressive fights, or just wait him out. He punishes stupid champions that love to poke away and then back out, like riven and yasuo.

VerxintJan 10, 201815 votes

Maokai getting snowballed on? What? He's one of the safest top lane picks and it's really hard to actually shut him out of relevance. His "mana problems" basically go away once you get a catalyst or glacial shroud, and if you use q for proper wave management he barely had any. He relies on people being close enough to use W, guess what class is guaranteed to be in range of his W if they're fighting?

General TherittJan 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Maokai getting snowballed on? What? He's one of the safest top lane picks and it's really hard to actually shut him out of relevance. His "mana problems" basically go away once you get a catalyst or glacial shroud, and if you use q for proper wave management he barely had any. He relies on people being close enough to use W, guess what class is guaranteed to be in range of his W if they're fighting?

almost all tanks get snowballed incredibly hard excluding Ornn, as of right now. Why is this? Because most toplane oppoents they have to fight end up being incredibly difficult for them to lock down and kill thanks to most of these picks being bruisers themselves. Fiora shreds tanks and will leave most characters like Maokai in ribbons after even a half decent ult, and can deny the important CC required to kill a target that tanks rely on, and remind me what she does again? Oh that's right, scale ridiculously hard into a near unstoppable duelist that still contributes massive amounts of teamfighting potential. Camille had to be nerfed into the ground, but right now she's barely viable, and once again, shreds tanks thanks to her large true damage. Jax once again, demolishes characters once he hits his items, meaning snowball to all of them is incredibly valuable and will enable them to dive tanks again and again. Udyr will rip you apart in seconds if you get CC'd even once. Shyvana boasts one of the highest winrates in the game, and she's a bruiser. Warwick is still completely viable, he's a bruiser.

the complaint of bruisers is still valid, but saying "Oh no, tanks don't get snowballed on" is complete nonsense. They still do, they just retain value due to CC. The problem bruisers experience is that most of them lack a lot of CC like tanks, and end up less valuable if they tend not to dominate their lane as of right now. I will agree maokai is safe, but you can obliterate maokai very easily before or even a bit after level 6 thanks to lack of actual defenses besides CC. You claim the mana isn't a problem, yet if the opponent commits to a fight, I guarantee you will find yourself out of mana very quickly, with the amount of times you will need to repeatedly press Q, and try to W whenever available, since most bruisers can kite a tank.

I know the feeling you might experience. I love renekton, and as of right now, a lot of tanks are incredibly powerful thanks to their CC value compared to bruisers. But that does not excuse the idea that bruisers cannot contribute even when ahead, because in this preseason, I can guarantee you've seen a Fiora demolish a tank, or a warwick rampage through a team while healing for half of his health throughout the entire fight.

Clowns SuckJan 10, 20183 votes

Warwick actually had a higher winrate than Shyv last time I looked. As a shyv player I found that pretty surprising. He always seemed like the weaker choice to me. But I'm only a gold what the hell do I know.

NineTailedMysticJan 11, 20182 votes

give bruisers +12 magic resistance again

how about no

AhristocatsJan 11, 20182 votes

my bad

bruisers should bend over and let tanks destroy them in laning phase, and then be irrelevant in teamfights [slayer-jinx-unamused]

NineTailedMysticJan 11, 20181 votes

Then why not just lower Tank damage instead?

AhristocatsJan 11, 20181 votes

sure if you:

nerf mao damage nerf ornn damage nerf shen damage nerf malphite damage nerf sion damage nerf grasp damage nerf comet damage nerf scorch damage nerf jayce W+E damage nerf gnar W damage

will be faster than giving +12 mr to Aatrox Darius Renekton Yorick Garen

NineTailedMysticJan 11, 20183 votes

Hey man, I'd take nerfing Tanks over just straight buffing a stat any day.

woodvsmurphJan 11, 20181 votes

Heimer nerf is deserved although I don't think it's necessarily the correct nerf. But I agree with all you said other than comet. Comet is not broken as-is and nerfing it would hurt ap mid mages who don't have a ton of valid options. Unless they cut down the base damage but buffed the ap ratio to compensate; that could work.