Why did riot take AP off of sheen?

Paladin 0f Life·Jul 4, 2016·7 votes·1,166 views

Seems like anyone that uses it has an AP ratio ability. So is like 15-20 mana that OP? Just seems like mage hating to me.

26 Comments

AtanchanJul 4, 20166 votes

They didn't replace the AP with the mana, they replaced it with the CDR.

Which is far more relevant to all Spellblade users - champions who want to spam their spells - than AP is, which is basically only relevant to Lich Bane users.

Yes, there are non-AP champions with AP ratios. No, that's not really much of a reason to put AP on an item based around AD, especially when the AP version of the item it built into didn't lose AP with the change anyway.

DavarrilJul 4, 20165 votes

Well, they took off the AP and switched it with CDR, which is way more useful to the champs that actually build sheen

pripustasJul 4, 20163 votes

Everyone has a base AD, therefore everyone can use Sheen. Not everyone has an AP ratio on their skills.

Paladin 0f LifeJul 4, 20162 votes

Poppy, malphite, vi, ziggs, tf, fizz, gragas, alistar, ezreal, naut, j4, diana, ekko, irelia, xin , jax, yi. Shoot even graves I'd you want all have AP ratios. So again why not? Who uses Sheen that doesn't have an AP ratio ability in their kit?

pripustasJul 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Paladin 0f Life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cVpJ1AjV,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-07-04T05:06:04.402+0000)

Poppy, malphite, vi, ziggs, tf, fizz, gragas, alistar, ezreal, naut, j4, diana, ekko, irelia, xin , jax, yi. Shoot even graves I'd you want all have AP ratios. So again why not? Who uses Sheen that doesn't have an AP ratio ability in their kit? Wu's ap ratio is on W (why it even deals damage I don't know) Doesn't have any ap ratios

Paladin 0f LifeJul 4, 20161 votes

So one champ? An assassin that rarely if ever builds it. I mean I've never built one on talon and i play him a lot. Lvl 5 and such but that doesn't mean much. Again all champs barring off meta builds that arent efficient have use for AP on sheen

RatbertJul 4, 20162 votes

Well yes, that was to make sheen less attractive for those champs, and for good reason.

AutomatisJul 4, 20163 votes

For the same reason that item 3145 , a mage item, procs on auto-attacks.

AD Bias

The Last BalladJul 4, 20161 votes

Cough Lux Xerath Akali Diana Ezreal Ekko Kassadin Kayle Heimerdinger Katarina Kennen Nami Orianna Sona Teemo Velkoz TwistedFate Viktor Ziggs Zyra cough

Absolutely no mages would find an item that procs off an auto attack useful...

zorlox77Jul 5, 20161 votes

I agree with you, but what does Zyra have that empowers their auto attacks?

The Last BalladJul 7, 20161 votes

Targeting the plants if you didn't hit an enemy with a spell. It may not empower her auto's, but she has a reason to use it.

redfeenixJul 4, 20163 votes

Sheen is more useful for ad casters. Since it does base ad dmg. If you want an ap sheen buy lich bane

I like that has no ap anymore, I don't feel bad about buying it on AD champs.

Paladin 0f LifeJul 4, 20162 votes

But the AD casters have AP ratios still on at least one ability and it's so hard to itemize for that

redfeenixJul 4, 20161 votes

Yeah that's a different conversation I think. No mages have AD ratios. Many AD champs have only AD ratios for all their skills. It's a design mistake /flaw for some AD champs to have ap scaling on one ability.

It doesn't make sense and it's bad design. Hopefully they remove the random ap scaling skill.

This is nothing against hybrid champs who have ad and ap ratios on all ther skills, like akali or morde.

Do you think champs should have one skill randomly scale off a stat you should never build on it? Eg irelias e scales of AP. Why would you ever build an ap item on irelia? This teaches new players to build wrong items on these champs with weird scaling.

Any thoughts?

Paladin 0f LifeJul 4, 20162 votes

Well Graves W, Poppy's W (Q I could see have an AP ratio), most sheilds it makes sense but %health would be better than like 0.8 AP stuff when they are AD champs or bruisers. Yi his Q is an ability thus it seems like AP would be practical and his heal it makes sense as well. Wukong has a decoy which would take magic so i see that being AP as well. I think riot goes more for design rather than functionality. But its not a problem except for building for it is terrible. Like Miss Fortune AP. Wtf if you make hybrid casters make items for it than leaving it out to dry.

BeatzBoyFTWJul 4, 20162 votes

Ezreal Sup

MunchCrunchLunchJul 4, 20162 votes

just because you have ap ratios. doesn't mean its good to get ap.

Sèx Craved EveJul 4, 20161 votes

Wasn't it an artificial nerf for TF because of how strong he was at the time it was nerfed? I think that may have been a factor.

SaltyKrackaJul 4, 20161 votes

Because they decided CDR was better on it.

3tysonJul 4, 20161 votes

i agree if id play a champ like nid where i feel like sure i can jump in and finish someone but my main weapon is my spear and sheen is a 1050 gold that doesnt help my spear

i do not feel like i can buy it in a game where i wanna stay behind and spear allot because maybe Irelia Fiora on enemy team idk

EunsonJul 4, 20161 votes

There's mages in this game....errr...season?

Sightless66Jul 4, 20161 votes

Seems like anyone that uses it has an AP ratio ability.

They have a use for it, but that use is extremely minimal. It's as close to wasted as a stat can get. Shifting it to CDR allows every champion that may want the sheen proc to use it. It also lets you take AP off of iceborn gauntlet and trinity force and make them specialized for tanks and bruisers.

ZephyrDrakeJul 4, 20161 votes

because if you really care about AP you would build item 3100 anyways. Where is the "mage hate" here?

My Waifu VanillaJul 5, 20161 votes

Champions that build Sheen have AP ratios because Sheen had AP not the other way around. Quinn, Vi, Irelia, etc. all have AP Ratios because Sheen had AP on it and they were initially incentivized to buy Sheen and spellblade items.

Best Valor NAJul 5, 20161 votes

Because Mages have a specific sheen item like Lich Bane. Trinity is kind of more towards AD champs. And Iceborn is for tanks. They were trying to make sheen more neutral for all champions.

QuephaJul 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Paladin 0f Life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cVpJ1AjV,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-07-04T04:57:25.074+0000)

Seems like anyone that uses it has an AP ratio ability.

Does Gangplank really count in this case? If he does then the number of champions that don't have an AP ratio is actually incredibly short.