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Adaptive item idea - Reaper's Contract

Barkley··2 votes·328 views

"Reaper's Contract" - 3600g +130 adaptive damage +Active: Reaper's Contract - Upon activation of this item, a 2 second timer is started. All damage done to you during this time is stored instead of immediately dealt. For every champion kill , 10% of the damage taken is negated (50% max) with the remaining damage being dealt with applicable damage types when the 2 seconds is over. If you fail to kill a champion before the 2 seconds is over, you take 150% of the damage you received as true damage.

  • This item cannot be carried at the same time as Zhonya's Hourglass. They are mutually exclusive.
  • 150 sec cooldown, reduced by 10 seconds on champion kill or 5 seconds on assist.

Build Path: Needlessly Large Rod - 1250g BF sword - 1300g Stopwatch - 600g Combine cost: 450g

My idea is that you've made a contract with death. He needs souls, and its either your enemies' souls..... or yours. You either grant him the souls he desires and he rewards you with protection from death, or you fail and the consequence is (likely) your own life.

Edit: I'm not a game designer and I'm not on the balance team. The numbers here are fairly arbitrary. It's the idea that's important.

17 Comments

Cocho3 votes

at 100 ad or ap, it's terrible for 3600 gold.

You lose damage for making it, and it basically gives you damage reduction. You wont kill the opponent because you dont have enough damage lol

Barkley1 votes

Meh. Concentrate more on the idea than the numbers. I had it at 120 damage at one point, and edited it. I'm not on the balance team for a reason.

Oh Me So Ornny1 votes

idk if I see a drawback.

its clearly an assassin item and its either A: u kill someone like you normally do, thus reveiving a shit ton of dmg reduction or b: you fail your assassination and and a sitting duck in the middle of their team( which would usually end with you dying regardless of the 150% true dmg) since you just blew your load

Barkley1 votes

The idea is to mitigate the "suicide bomber" mentality. "I'm gonna kill people, but I'll likely die."

Maybe not, with this. Maybe you live to fight another day.

On the flipside, it forces a commitment. If you don't kill your target, you're almost certainly dead.

Also good for 1v1 and 1v2 split pushers.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I think that's actually good incentive to make sure the item isn't abused by other people. I'm not saying I think it's balanced, but you're correct that the downside is unlikely to affect an assassin going ham, either way. That's a nice thing, I think.

Personally, I think the item is a bit too binary. Rewarding kills to this degree can really become a snowball mechanic, but it's an interesting idea, to be sure.

Barkley1 votes

{quoted}

I think that's actually good incentive to make sure the item isn't abused by other people.

Elaborate?

I'm not saying I think it's balanced

Meh... I'm not a game designer. Rito can balance it. The idea is there, though.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

The passive itself makes sure that only damage dealers (and fairly bursty ones) are incentivized to buy the item. If there weren't a significant failure case for tanks, they could build it to just negate burst damage. Having that penalty ensures that they can't do that. I like that you included it because I think it prevents the item from being attractive to non-assassins.

On the other hand, there's still a potential problem with assists for assassins. What if the assassin deals 99% of the damage, but fails to get the kill? Is it fair to let them take the damage if they do that? But, if you allow assists to count, you open the door to tanks getting the item again, and just engaging hard while negating the damage from that. As long as their teammates gets the kill, they're okay.

So I think there's some stickiness with the actual mechanics of the item, given the nature of teamfights. I think it's a cool idea, but probably needs some refinement.

Barkley1 votes

I've always thought players should get additional gold for an assist if they dealt more than 80% of a champions health bar as damage. +25 or something like that for a "near kill."

If that mechanic were in place, this would be an easy fix...

Enderspider1 votes

would be pretty interesting imo, but I think it should be about 500g cheaper so it's more available

Barkley1 votes

I agree, but build paths are weird. Maybe like a pickaxe + blasting wand + stopwatch, and less damage? Idk.

Barkley1 votes

Some hypothetical situations where this item could be useful...

  • I'm Katarina vs a low cc, high burst team
  • I'm an adc vs a Fed enemy rengar or zed
  • I'm a split pusher who needs to 1v1, 1v2
  • im garen vs a low cc team
  • I'm chogath vs a low cc team
  • I'm any assassin who needs to kill a back line
  • I'm a jungler sneaking a solo baron and need 2 more seconds to live to secure the baron for my team.
  • I'm tower diving
  • I'm a champion with an AoE ability and if I can put out 2 more seconds of AoE and my death doesn't matter, we could win a fight.
  • I'm kindred and I can shrug off the true damage penalty, or I have a kindred that can save me from the penalty.
  • I'm lissandra and I can shrug off the damage portion.
  • I'm taric and I can shrug off the true damage penalty, or I have a taric and I need to survive long enough to get his invulnerability buff, or I know my taric is good enough to have seen me use this item and save my life.
  • I have a zilean on my team, or I am zilean.

Just for some context.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

The weird hybrid build path means it basically has a 1700-1750g combine cost, depending on whether you're AP or AD. I mean, is a Zed or Talon going to sit on a Needlessly Large Rod that does literally nothing for them?

Also, why does the item exclude Zhonya's Hourglass but not Guardian Angel?

Barkley1 votes

Because I didn't think of that.

Again, I am not a designer, so id ask you concentrate more on the idea of the item itself rather than the semantics. Clearly there's going to be balance issues, I have no experience balancing an item or a game.

So could it build from something else? Sure. Could it do more/less damage? Sure.

Should it exclude GA too? Probably. Idk.

I'm more concerned about the idea. I'll leave the balance to the pros.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Well the reason I thought it should exclude GA is because it's an AD equivalent to Zhonya's. Stasis and temporary invulnerability that bypasses the item's intended weakness.

IMO, the 2 second timer is way too short for such a large drawback. Remember that Zhonya's lasts for 2.5 seconds and GA lasts for 4. This means the item would be useless if your opponent had either of them, since you would time out before they were back in the fight.

At the same time, you're essentially proposing 2 seconds of invulnerability on an assassin. That's REALLY strong, since many assassin playstyles involve getting in, dealing damage fast, and quickly retreating beyond range. If you completely remove their vulnerability during the time they're near you, what counterplay is there? You have to count on the assassin messing up and you accidentally living, then the item punishes them for you.

Barkley1 votes

Yeah my idea was for assassins to have an on-demand way to guarantee their damage, provided they don't get CC'd out of it. However, some skill is required as to deciding WHEN to use it, because if you use it incorrectly, it is HEAVILY punishing. Almost certain death.

So its kind of a risk reward thing. If you use the item correctly, you're exactly what you said - an invulnerable assassin. You may/may not die afterward, but your damage is guaranteed. It minimizes the chance of your death if you're successful.

That's a big 'if'... any CC or misclick or misplay means your target lives, and you die.

On the flipside, its also a great anti-assassin item. 8-0 rengar hunting you down as vayne? The minute he shows up, you proc this item and 1v1 him. If he dies, you may/may not live. Much better chances than if you didn't have this item. If you can't kill him, well..... you were dead anyway, so what does it matter? At least with this item you had a fighting chance.

The very last instance of this item's effectiveness would be in the situation where you have some form of invulnerability on your team (since you can't build zhonyas). Taric, Kindred, Zilean, etc... You can basically get 2 seconds of invulnerability on ANY CHAMPION, and bypass the true damage penalty for NOT killing a champion. This opens the door for ANY CHAMPION to use this item, provided they have a way out of the true damage penalty.

Lissandra comes to mind... Zhonyas is essentially a core item on her, but zhonyas stops her from dealing any additional damage... Not reaper's contract. With reapers contract she can continue to deal damage while being invulnerable, and then use her ultimate when the 2 seconds is up to bypass the penalty.

So with these hypothetical scenarios in mind, what sort of changes would you make to the item? I see your point with the interaction between GA and Zhonyas on enemies... but I mean... that's kinda just counterplay, isn't it?

"oh he built that reaper item... I need to get GA or Zhonyas"

Kitten of Evil1 votes

I guess what I'm trying to explain is it's even more binary than assassins already are.

The risk to the assassin is huge, maybe even unavoidable in some cases. 2 seconds isn't even enough time for some assassins to kill if they land their combos. Just off the top of my head: Leblanc's 1.5s passive delay means she has to time everything basically perfectly. Zed's mark doesn't pop for 3 seconds. Talon's passive deals damage over a 2 second duration.

Not to mention, if your enemy rushes GA or Zhonya's (as is common against assassins), the item actually harms you since they WILL use the stasis to avoid death for longer than 2 seconds. So the risk to the assassin player is absolutely huge.

You'd need to up the time to 3-4 seconds for it to have enough leeway to be worth it for many assassins. But then it's way too strong because it is invulnerability, something you usually spend an ultimate to get. And it eliminates the class's one intended weakness: when they dive you, you CC them and burst them down before they can blink back or escape. With this item, that's completely impossible.

I think an interesting option would be giving the assassin 50% damage reduction up-front, some sort of reset mechanic to extend the duration (because what assassin doesn't love reset pentakills?), and if you fail to kill someone, the amount of damage it prevented while active is dealt to you in one burst at the end?

Barkley1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cTshBA8A,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-08T04:41:19.634+0000)

I guess what I'm trying to explain is it's even more binary than assassins already are.

The risk to the assassin is huge, maybe even unavoidable in some cases. 2 seconds isn't even enough time for some assassins to kill if they land their combos. Just off the top of my head: Leblanc's 1.5s passive delay means she has to time everything basically perfectly. Zed's mark doesn't pop for 3 seconds. Talon's passive deals damage over a 2 second duration.

Not to mention, if your enemy rushes GA or Zhonya's (as is common against assassins), the item actually harms you since they WILL use the stasis to avoid death for longer than 2 seconds. So the risk to the assassin player is absolutely huge.

You'd need to up the time to 3-4 seconds for it to have enough leeway to be worth it for many assassins. But then it's way too strong because it is invulnerability, something you usually spend an ultimate to get. And it eliminates the class's one intended weakness: when they dive you, you CC them and burst them down before they can blink back or escape. With this item, that's completely impossible.

I think an interesting option would be giving the assassin 50% damage reduction up-front, some sort of reset mechanic to extend the duration (because what assassin doesn't love reset pentakills?), and if you fail to kill someone, the amount of damage it prevented while active is dealt to you in one burst at the end?

I've given up on this post, tbh. Everyone wants to concentrate on the numbers and build path and a bunch of other arbitrary shit that can be changed to be balanced if it ever gets adopted as an idea. I stated probably 4 times that the idea is what I was emphasizing, and I don't know anything about balance, and that's not the point of this thread. But people can't seem to get past the nearly random numbers I put in, basically as placeholders, and that's all anyone wants to talk about.

So w/e. I'm over it. This is why I don't post ideas on here.

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