@riot: proposed fiora scaling changes

Critmaster Garen··1 votes·391 views

**here is the issue with fiora in her current state. **

when her rework was released, fiora was intended as a melee adc who carries with high amounts of true damage from her passive, while being mechanically intensitive at the same time.

she was expected to stack a mix of raw ad and cdr to increase the damage on her passive, and be able to outmaneuver her opponents with a short cooldown on her q.

this would leave her with a very squishy build, that created a risky playstile in melee, while offering high rewards. if you wasted riposte youd get hit by cc, and blow up like a rubber balloon.

if you timed riposte correctly, you could not only dodge crippling cc effects, champion ultimates and even summoner spells, but also stun your opponent to create an opening, when the skillshot hit. additionally she is highly mobile which gives her some good amount of extra outplay potential to stay alive in melee on a squishy carry build.

initially this concept worked. however her kit was not designed with the new bruiser items in mind. mainly item 3748 item 3053 and also item 3071 with its increased ad values with the preseason.

these additions to the game and her singular offensive scaling with raw ad caused a bruiser build on her to become viable. she would stack up a decent amount of defenses, while gaining a good amount of ad to fuel her passive.

in the end we ended up with a champion who has the mobility and outplay potential of a melee adc, and the damage/defense ratio of a bruiser.

the direct nerfs like she got with the last patch will not change the problem itself. imo especially the nerf to ripostes cooldown only takes survivability away from her carry build and cause her to be more dependent on defensive stats. youre forcing her into a bruiser build while making it less effective on her.

so here is my take on updating her kit:

  • give her passive the jhin treatment. and by that, i mean make it scale with multiple stats; ad, and critical strike.
  • change her e and remove the 0% crit/100% crit mechanic so she has further incentive to invest gold into the stat

this would force her to buy more offensive stats and into a squishier carry build to get the same % true damage as she gets now just by stacking ad. she would get an incentive to buy items like item 3031 and item 3508 to get her cooldowns reduced and mana sustain

  • give riposte the yasuo treatment and have its cooldown not only reduced by cdr, but also with attack speed.

another stat hook to make the ability much more effective on a squishy carry build than on a tanky bruiser build. it is the core ability of her kit, that allows her to survive in melee on a glass cannon build.

if necessary reduce the animation time to .5 seconds to make it slightly harder for her to dodge abilties, but have the total cooldown with attack speed items and 40% cdr noticably reduced compared to now, so she can dodge more often in return.

9 Comments

Critmaster Garen1 votes

the overall goal should be to get fiora from a build like this:

item 3748 item 3053 item 3071 item 3742 item 3065 item 1001

to a build like this

item 3074 item 3031 item 3508 item 3046 item 3026 item 1001

while still being effective.

67chrome1 votes

Would be cool and all, but being squishy, melee, sustained-DPS, and lacking in utility leaves a champion little to offer come late-game teamfights that decide games. Pretty much why Tryndamere just back-doors 24/7.

Fiora's Riposte and mobility is no doubt amazing in a 1v1 situation: but she really lacks the kind of mobility, range, and combo speed of someone like Yasou or Zed that's competing with Fiora within a similar niche.

I just don't see Fiora's current kit having the tools necessary to avoid being a tanky DPS champion.

Fiora is a duelist after all, a fighter, and like Jax: having some bulk is really useful towards that end regardless of the situation. Riot also did rework Fiora more around her dueling fantasy than trying to contort her into an awkward melee-squishy-sustained-crit-scaling direction, and in several instances kind of hinted a melee-squish build being an issue with her: having to much damage, killing things before they could react, and bringing nothing to a team outside of damage.

Also: I can't really think of any games where melee champions have nothing going for them in passive defenses. Mostly melee DPS get at least mid-tier armor with Leather, and carry items in DotA tend to come chalk full of HP, HP/5, and Armor making a late-game melee carry feel a lot more like Jax or Irelia over a melee-range Vayne.

And in Fiora's case: I don't really see how forcing her to be a glass-cannon is important. If she's supposed to be a fighter and play like a fighter, she may as well build like a fighter rather than building like a marksman while sharing nothing in common with that archetype.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

And in Fiora's case: I don't really see how forcing her to be a glass-cannon is important. If she's supposed to be a fighter and play like a fighter, she may as well build like a fighter rather than building like a marksman while sharing nothing in common with that archetype.

all the utility in her kit, her q and her w, and her true damage are added with the expectation that she builds relatively squishy. building squishy makes her a lot more risky to play and mechanically demanding of the player. she has a lot of tools to survive, and deal a load of damage in return.

high risk = high reward.

thats the same reason why yasuos kit is so "overloaded", and tryndamere has 5 seconds invulnerability on his ult.

fiora is supposed to be the same type of champion, but her scalings are messed up. which is why she has no incentive to build anything else than ad and defense right now.

building her bruiser makes her barely take any risk with her kit while still dealing only slightly less damage than built adc.

her e makes crit mostly a wasted stat. since she deals more damage over her q and passive and gets bonus attack speed on her e, she doesnt directly auto attack a whole lot. so no reason to get attack speed either.

i think if she builds more squishy, the same build should also give her more utility with a shorter riposte cooldown to be able to survive teamfights with that build.

after cdr and attack speed, her riposte should be at around 4 seconds cooldown, instead of 5 seconds like now.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

No one does the tank build anymore.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Pumpkin Kinq,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cPhiBELi,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-03-28T19:58:16.659+0000)

No one does the tank build anymore.

http://champion.gg/champion/Fiora

this data is only taken from this patch cycle. the sad truth is, while the bruiser build sucks now, the adc build sucks even more. the riposte and e nerfs didnt help.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cPhiBELi,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-03-28T20:37:01.709+0000)

http://champion.gg/champion/Fiora

this data is only taken from this patch cycle. the sad truth is, while the bruiser build sucks now, the adc build sucks even more. the riposte and e nerfs didnt help.

And that is the build that has a 46% win rate, any dots being connected here? The tank build is shit, and no ad Fiora is not shit, it just requires a different play style, it can actually find success.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Pumpkin Kinq,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cPhiBELi,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-03-28T22:41:47.303+0000)

And that is the build that has a 46% win rate, any dots being connected here? The tank build is shit, and no ad Fiora is not shit, it just requires a different play style, it can actually find success.

it has a 46% winrate while its the highest winrate build for fiora.

you can see that there are two builds listed. the most common build, and the highest win % build. theyre both bruiser builds.

if people would be more successful with an adc build on her, then that would be the highest win % build, even with less people playing it.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cPhiBELi,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-29T09:27:53.865+0000)

it has a 46% winrate while its the highest winrate build for fiora.

you can see that there are two builds listed. the most common build, and the highest win % build. theyre both bruiser builds.

if people would be more successful with an adc build on her, then that would be the highest win % build, even with less people playing it.

Then obviously a large enough amount of people haven't tried the ad build because that bruiser one is not working.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Pumpkin Kinq,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cPhiBELi,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-29T14:51:52.535+0000)

Then obviously a large enough amount of people haven't tried the ad build because that bruiser one is not working.

it doesnt matter how many people tried the ad build. if it worked better than the bruiser build, it would have a higher win %

i just explained it.

champion gg lists stats for the highest win % build and the highest play % build. both are identical in this case, because the bruiser build is more reliable than the ad build even when it sucks.

the most recent nerfs to riposte has hit the ad build actually unproportionally harder than the bruiser build. because bruiser fiora relies on a combination of defensive stats and riposte to survive. ad fiora only has riposte to work with.

tbh. ad fiora hasnt been good since the nerf to her ult, that cut the time down for killing a target by only hitting one single vital.

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