Veigar Ult Rework That Is More Fair And More Rewarding

DrCabes·Apr 7, 2015·12 votes·3,154 views

Bring back the 1.2 AP ratio.

Get rid of having an additional 80% enemies AP damage, instead have the ult explode if it kills the enemy damaging other nearby enemies for 80% of the targets AP and 150% of their AD. (These numbers may be to strong or too weak but the idea is what's important)

This would get rid of Veigar's kind of cheap anti-lategame-mage role. He would still have very high burst and can easily combo either carry late game and this would reward him more for doing that.

I play a lot of Veigar and being able to just press R alone on the other teams AP carry late game to kill them seems like a bit overkill and I think this is why a lot of people don't like Veigar. A change like this would let him keep his burst which is already enough to burst either AP or AD carry and it would reward him more for doing that.

Let me know what you think.

28 Comments

DirtbagSlimApr 7, 20155 votes

I feel like Veigar's ult needs to scale with the enemy's highest attribute.

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 7, 20154 votes

You should define attribute, I just thought what if it scaled with hp. That would be hilariously retarded. xD

ReazaleApr 7, 20151 votes

Just imagine, blowing Ryzes and Mundos cos they stacked health or mana and u dealt 80% of that in dmg, SO OP!

SirPacifistaApr 9, 20151 votes

Nah, would love to do 500 + (120% of enemy max HP) Damage with Veigars ult. Then i wouldnt even care about the new E.

insaiyanbaccaApr 7, 20152 votes

hmmm sounds interesting and fun the numbers might need some changing but sounds fun

Curling VeigarApr 7, 20152 votes

I like the idea

Fueled By CoffeeApr 7, 20152 votes

When I'm in bot lane finishing off the second tower, and veigar peaks out from the jungle with a fat ulti flying at you, youre more than likely dead if you arent a tank lol his scaling is terrfying.

PKnowledgeApr 7, 20152 votes

I'm playing Veigar since I started playing LoL. I'm really worried, because unless I used the DFG, or had 1000+ AP, I've never been able to 100-0% an APC with R only. (Assuming the APC is not 700AP 30MR 1600HP)

I think Veigar's ult is more or less balanced. At 30", you're still doing huge damages (~75%) to APC, decent (~50%) to ADC/Assassin. In late-late, you can nearly OS an APC, and 100-0% anyone with full combo unless he's full tank.

I don't think veigar's ult is a problem right know. He's supposed to delete APC, and he can more or less still do it. I would rather have a nice rework on E/W than a new R.

SirPacifistaApr 9, 20151 votes

yep, the new E is horrible with the old W. They should goddamed rework that before touching something else.

EnvyDragonApr 7, 20151 votes

+1 because Veigar having an ability that scales off the enemy's AP is stupid and should be changed, but I don't necessarily agree with your suggested fix. Having so much of its utility revolve around killing the target enemy causes some problems - namely, it feels terrible to use unless you're certain it will kill the target.

Veigar's identity is much more the "farm AP, burst down targets" variety anyway. He deals damage and doesn't afraid of anythign. Lategame his whole schtick is just that you can chunk everything with anything, and his ult should really factor into that - its current iteration on live actually does that pretty well, it just irks me that the enemy-AP thing is at all involved.

How about instead of increasing the scaling and adding the death-explosion, you do something like have it remove (0.1*AP) of the target's MR for 3 seconds? That way, you can open a fight with it to amplify your burst. Early on it might be equivalent to Sorc Shoes or something, but when you hit Lategame Badass Veigar you're suddenly busting their armor to the tune of -100MR.

DrCabesApr 7, 20153 votes

I get what you're saying but I have to disagree. Veigar doesn't need to shred any MR from the carries to kill them so that would make that pointless for bursting the carries. Instead you would be ulting the tanks to shred their MR and shredding too much makes Veigar able to burst carries AND tanks which would not be healthy. If it isn't enough MR shred to burst tanks then it's useless because he doesn't need it to burst the carries.

MagentaHawkApr 7, 20151 votes

I think there is something backwards here. %MR shred would be good against tanks. Flat MR Pen is best against carries. Taking a carry from their 40 MR to 0 makes you deal TRUE damage. Much better than taking a tank from its 140 MR to 100 or higher. Flat Pen has more effect on the lower numbers, so it would be better against the carries.

DrCabesApr 7, 20151 votes

The point is that Veigar doesn't need any more magic pen for carries. He already has sorc boots and void staff. Any more then that for carries is just overkill.

flibitydooApr 7, 20151 votes

Kind of confusing.

You've got two executes that give different benefits:

Permanent AP if you last hit the champion with Q

Aoe damage if you last hit the champion with R

There is no optimal play since to use one means you miss out on the benefit of the other ( you still get AP cause the Q passive, but the Q last hit on champions is also bonus ap).

DrCabesApr 7, 20155 votes

That is good a point but consider the benefits from each at different stages of the game.

1st off: Its obviously better to last hit the enemy with your Q if it's a 1v1

Early game: The extra AP is more beneficial because you don't have as much yet. The burst for killing is much less because the enemy doesn't have a lot of AP or AD yet either. It appears to be more beneficial to you to try last hitting them with your Q early game.

Mid game: The extra AP is still good but not as good. The burst from killing with your ult could begin to become significant. Probably more useful to last hit them with your ult unless its a 1v1.

Late game: The extra AP is not nearly as useful because you already are approaching 800-1000 AP. The burst could deal a lot of aoe damage if you kill the right target with it. Clearly more beneficial to last hit with your ult.

AudiomancyApr 7, 20152 votes

Veigar gains AP equal to the level of his Q anyway whenever he kills a champion. The only reason most Veigars try to finish with Q is to get the extra active +2 AP from the kill itself on top of the passive AP gain on champion kills.

Fueled By CoffeeApr 7, 20151 votes

Honestly Veigars ulti should be the skill shot.

DrCabesApr 7, 20153 votes

If it was a skillshot all the enemy carries have to do is stay behind their tanks and then Veigar can't do anything without putting himself way out of position. Zhonyas can already block his ult so I don't see a reason to nerf its ability to land. Also if it was a skill shot that would make none of Veigar's abilities reliable sources of damage. He's already immobile so he shouldn't be burdened with a problem like that.

SirPacifistaApr 9, 20151 votes

That would be ok, if he gets the old Stun back. And only then!!!

Earthlord JazzApr 7, 20151 votes

It would be harder to kill the opponent with the R with the lowered ratio, so I'd probably tweak the ability to put a tag on the champion hit for 3 seconds or so. If they die with the mark on them, then they release the dark energy and deal the damage

UPfreelyApr 7, 20151 votes

i think it should do more dmg for every ap more than the target that veigar has

DirtbagSlimApr 7, 20151 votes

Veigar's stun should do damage

SirPacifistaApr 9, 20151 votes

Its the only stun ability ingame which does no damage (as far as i know). So its a pure utility ability, i think it can stay that way, it shoud just give him utility, not like now.

junglerboy16Apr 7, 20151 votes

You're... kidding, right???

the .8 enemy AP ratio is where most of his burst comes from up until late game.

MalganaApr 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You're... kidding, right???

the .8 enemy AP ratio is where most of his burst comes from up until late game.

How do you figure? unless your opponent is way ahead of you in AP there's very little damage being done there.

His burst comes from his W and R having a 100% AP ratio, but it's impossible to land that shit anymore because his E is useless. IMO all Riot needs to do is remake his E into some other kind of stun, because the cage isn't working with the rest of his kit since it requires them to be immobilized to land.

junglerboy16Apr 7, 20151 votes

The whole point of the .8 enemy AP ratio is that it allows a Veigar who is behind a chance to catch up, and a Veigar who is ahead is supposed to be an anti-mage whose sole purpose is to annihilate the enemy's APC. Taking away that .8 AP ratio on his R would take over 500 damage from it late game, which is HUGE.

MalganaApr 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The whole point of the .8 enemy AP ratio is that it allows a Veigar who is behind a chance to catch up, and a Veigar who is ahead is supposed to be an anti-mage whose sole purpose is to annihilate the enemy's APC. Taking away that .8 AP ratio on his R would take over 500 damage from it late game, which is HUGE.

People don't start the game with 625AP though, so I don't see how that 80% is where his early game burst comes from.

Honestly I would be happy if they'd just rework his stun into something more manageable. His current one doesn't work with his kit at all, which is a huge issue. The W requires CC to land and Veigar just can't do it anymore unless the opponent straight up chooses to be stunned, so I would agree that they should keep the 80% because that's really not the issue anyway.

junglerboy16Apr 7, 20151 votes

early-mid game, the enemy AP has around 200 AP. You as Veigar probably have about the same. Taking away that .8 AP ratio is taking away roughly 160 damage, which in the early game is quite a lot on its own (more than a quarter of the ability's damage).