Lee Sin should be reworked, not nerfed

notice me Sin pi·Mar 15, 2017·10 votes·2,450 views

Currently Lee Sin has overwhelming mobility, high damage, slow, stun, knock back, shield, built-in lifesteal, and camo-reveals. His kit is not only toxic but also jack of all trades, master of ~~none~~ all trades and there is not a single true counter to Lee Sin for that reason.

Nerfing him wont change the fact that he is very overloaded nor will it change the fact that there is no counterplay to his ward-W-R-Q-Q. If he were to be merely nerfed to no longer be problematic, he would have to be aatrox-ed. A rework is needed to fix his problems, not nerfs.

26 Comments

OleandervineMar 16, 20173 votes

Don't forget, Riot tried to rework him once before and there was a # savetyler1 level of stupidity and backlash against it that Riot didn't push it through.

Sire HippingtonMar 16, 20173 votes

All he needs is to have the wardstep removed and then getting re-balanced from there, potentially with damage/power shifts from early to late. Without wardstep, he'd either have to land the Q, or have his ally up your face for closeing the gap, no longer just walking up, wardhop->r->q->q, no lomger wardhop over the raptors wall to kick the midlaner oout off his tower, no longer wardhopping out off any bad situation, finally needs flash for big insec plays, or find a proper flank...prettymuch half(or even more) of the bullshit he's able to pull off is enabled by the wardhop and not his actuall kit(I still refuse to accept the wardhop as actuall part off his kit, it was an unintendet mechanic that riot decided to keep cause back in S2, it wasn't as disturbing since every wardstep did cost 75g and you had to give up an entier inventory space for it).

Illâoi Evê SiônMar 15, 20172 votes

I don't think all of his abilities should have double activations. They needlessly increase his skill-cap by adding extraneous strengths.

notice me Sin piMar 16, 20171 votes

i dont see problem with skillcap itself. But i do see problem with skillcap making it more difficult for riot to gauge the actual power he has. And the rito that i know doesnt make moves at all unless they are 100% sure something needs to be done ~~but they suk at finding that "something" and screw up a lot~~

Teridax68Mar 16, 20172 votes

One of the issues with Lee Sin is that he not only has far more tools than the average champion, but also that he isn't affected by the weaknesses of his class: one of the most important traits Riot have listed for divers is that they're great at entering fights, but terrible at getting out of them; Lee Sin, however, obviously doesn't suffer from this, since Safeguard allows him to dash out at will, a feature that causes a lot of frustration when playing against him. Most divers also typically have a dominant laning phase in exchange for limited teamfighting ability, yet an experienced Lee Sin can have his cake and eat it too, by not only having one of the best early games around, but still having a lot of utility and crowd control to fall back to later on, including his ultra-powerful Insec kick.

While I think Lee Sin needs some kit changes, which I think should include the loss of his ward-hopping, I feel part of his niche now is that he is a generalist, and offers a variety of options to his teams that you wouldn't find on any single other champion. He could still stand to lose some of his strengths, including his escape but also his true sight and free sustain, but I think the most important part of his rework would be trying to give him a weakness. Since making Lee not so good at something he used to be strong at might not be the best way to go, a better solution might be to give him a weakness that makes sense for his character.

Personally, while this might sound extreme, I think an interesting weakness to give him would be to make him actually blind, i.e. by restricting his personal sight radius to his immediate surroundings (he should still benefit from ally vision, though). Thematic coherence aside, such a massive weakness would allow him to preserve much of his generalist kit and become even stronger at everything he does, since his unique array of advantages would be counterbalanced by a similarly unique drawback. It could also refine his team comp options somewhat: he'd be a great pick in utility-heavy teams and a good complement to a strong frontline, since he'd always have allies to provide him vision, but he wouldn't be as good in, say, splitpush or late-game comps, where he wouldn't be the best at fighting in isolation or watching over priority allies. Similarly, he could work well against turtle and stall comps, thanks to his disruption potential, but would fare poorly against poke setups, who'd be able to exploit his lack of vision to whittle him down from afar. He'd still likely be popular in pro play and among high-skill players, but wouldn't be the perfect fallback option for every match anymore.

ZILLAGULAMar 15, 20171 votes

No he really doesn't. He's cool, he's flashy and he fits into league. Yes he's strong right now but there are actually better junglers. Jungle isn't really about counterpicks anyway so seeing a Lee often isn't as much of a problem.

MuffledGarbageMar 15, 20172 votes

Tell that to the poor Veigar in the midlane who took a ward RQQ under tower and got murdered by LeeSin and Zed

Tell that to the botlane who got ward-W Q Q R'd and was killed by these three: Leona Vayne LeeSin

Tell that to all the junglers who can't clear as fast as Lee yet also(for the most part) have worse ganks than Lee Amumu Camille Akali Ekko Elise Evelynn Chogath Diana Illaoi Fiddlesticks Skarner Jax JarvanIV Karthus Kindred Nocturne Sejuani Nunu Olaf Pantheon Poppy Rammus RekSai Sion Teemo Volibear XinZhao Zac Yorick

Yeah, lee only has 3 junglers that can stand up to him and beat him Hecarim and Riven are the three junglers who can keep up with lee's clears and gank at the same time as him in addition to the same scale of ganks.

Those three are only on-par with LeeSin which is the worst part... He outscales their usefulness lategame because of his ability to easily and safely W-Hop into the backline QQ R a squishy into His own team.

If lee fails to W hop in the right spot he can easily Q out from a minion Or ult so that the enemy frontine knocks back everyone else in that team.

Lee could also Q in and W-hop past the frontline to R the enemy squishies.

If the Squishy uses summoner 4 during LeeSin they still go the same direction that they were going to be kicked before.

And look at that... LeeSin ult is on a low, low 60 second cooldown at level 18.

60 seconds can be eaten up in a snap by the team that has LeeSin .

waveclear until lee ult back up for a really safe way for a garunteed win in a teamfight.

yeah sure... lee is "balanced"

Yaśuo MainMar 16, 20171 votes

yorick jungle akali jg yorick jg teemo jg

all a bit questionable, especially yorick jg and yorick jg

FluffySoxOfDoomMar 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yaśuo Main,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cGlkbbAk,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-16T01:55:25.701+0000)

yorick jungle akali jg yorick jg teemo jg

all a bit questionable, especially yorick jg and yorick jg

Poppy was my favorite one lolol

MuffledGarbageMar 16, 20171 votes

Yorick W alone is enough CC for a gank.

It garuntees a summoner 4 ( assuming person being ganked has no mobility outside of )

Yorick Q helps him take level 3 solo dragons.

Yorick can't keep up with Lee's jungle sustain however.

Akali jg is in a bad spot at the moment due to burst being through the roof however when played she's able to gank similar to a Rengar or Khazix after level 6.

Her clear is too slow to be on par with Lee.

Teemo JG I do admit is questionable but is moreso like Nunu or Quinn in that he wants to counterjungle as much as possible while still ganking lanes every once in a while.

Due to LeeSin having one of the best earlygames ever he's able to avoid the counterjungling and even if he's caught by Teemo he can wait out the blind and melt Teemo afterwards.

doodlebob666Mar 16, 20171 votes

the champions you chose are questionable as fuck. Why should camille have a good clear, she's a top laner and she brings a crap ton of cc to any ganks with the ability to litteraly make it impossible for the enemy to leave. Why should jungle carries like Kindred and Xin be able to clear and gank as well as an early game champ. Why are a bunch of champs that are supposed to be top laners on the list like illaoi and yorrick? Why the fuck is karthus there? How do zac and elise have weaker ganks or slower clears than lee both keep up with him really well. And how the fuck can riven keep up with him she sucks in the jungle.

edit: veigar is good against lee just cage yourself, how the fuck does lee outscale vi and hecarim he is mostly a problem in high elo and not because of how much he brings late game at least not compared to the garanteed lockdown and burst of vi, or the cc, damage, and tanking abilty of hecarim

MuffledGarbageMar 16, 20171 votes

Camille should have good clear because she has to sacrifice mana for the clear which gives an opening for her to be engaged upon.

Kindred and XinZhao are able to clear and gank fairly well but they stiull can't keep up with LeeSin in terms of gank quality

a lot of toplaners like Illaoi and Yorick work in the jungle and can be played to great success in the jungle. Toplaners have been played in the jungle before, and they'll continue to be. Amumu started as a toplane champion but when he was played in the jungle... that became the meta due to how powerful his ganks were/are.

Karthus is in the jungle list because he has been played mid/jg with moderate-great success.

Zac and Elise have slower earlygame clears than LeeSin And while the ganks they provide are on the level of Riven Hecarim LeeSin Their clear speed and lategame usefulness grows worse as the game goes on.

Riven was made to be a top/jg. Her clears are fast AF BOI!!! memes aside, she has a dash/knockup combo which helps her out greatly. She can farm in the jungle as fast as LeeSin can and she has the sustain to do so. Riven also has an execute mechanic via her ultimate which helps to catch an enemy who burned summoner 4

doodlebob666Mar 16, 20171 votes

as a jungler camille has the strongest level 6 gank in the game no one can escape she should not have a good clear when you take that into account.

Kindred is a carry jungler who relies on farming heavily for a massive late game, with ganks providing an additional way to boost that end game strength, xin again is a carry jungler with a bend towards late game, neither of these champs should compete with lee's clear or ganks, arguing for it is like saying nasus, and gangplank should be able to have the early game damage of renekton and its unfair for him to have it if champs who vastly out scale him don't.

Just because a champ works in the jungle doesn't mean they should be balanced around it I enjoy brand jungle doesn't mean he should be able to farm as well as a traditional jungler. Illaoi in particular is pointless since she can't gank at all and has a lot of her power for lane bullying.

Amumu was made in a time before a meta when riot thought jungler's should be an occasional pick so its unfair to use that example as an explanation for why top laners should compete with lee and he also has been balanced around it.

Jungler Karthus is something that should never be allowed, since it removes a champion who still deals damage after you kill him, with a point and click global ult, along with massive dps, the ability to ignore the risks of lane phase, and it also is completely shit right now so he should not be able to compete with most meta junglers.

Zac's clear may be slower but its also more sustained and he provides far more in the late game considering the fact he has a far more reliable engage along with a very powerful disruption ult, also it is impossible to ward against a zac. I don't play elise but she is pretty much ap lee sin, just with a stun and no ult, her early game is just as strong and just bit more reliable than lee in every elo below diamond.

What Elo is riven jungle viable? its mostly played by riven 1 tricks who got their secondary, its also shit she can't cleary either raptors or krugs without a tiamat this really is just a cheesy pick

Vi and hecarim provide far more late game you cannot argue that point

I really think you have an overinflated view of lee he is not op in low elo (where we both are) so its really a bad idea to try and argue that without having played against a good lee, losing against lee still happens in silver/bronze, but thats mostly because people here are bad and don't capitalize on the mistakes made by the lee

PermabannedGarenMar 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Tell that to the poor in the midlane who took a ward RQQ under tower and got murdered by and

Oh no, one of the hardest scaling mid laners in the game got killed by a coordinated effort by two powerful early game champions in lane! What a tragedy. Let's make it so Veigar can safely turtle under his turret for thirty minutes until he can scale up, so there's no risk to playing the champion.

Tell that to the botlane who got ward-W Q Q R'd and was killed by these three:

I see no problem with Lee Sin being able to successfully gank.

Tell that to all the junglers who can't clear as fast as Lee yet also(for the most part) have worse ganks than Lee

Tank junglers in general are bad right now due to the jungle, it has nothing to do with Lee.

This is not a jungler.

Champion isn't struggling right now at all, and pre-six her ganks are arguably better than Lee's due to her stun.

Champion is struggling a bit, but frankly fuck her. Fuck Eve.

This is barely a champion, much less a jungler.

Diana has been struggling in general for a while, and AP champs are doing shit in the jungle. It's not Lee Sin's fault.

This is certainly not a jungler.

Once again, Lee Sin has little to nothing to do with Fiddlesticks doing poorly in the jungle.

Could use some help, but more likely to get another rework first.

A champion as strong late game as Jax shouldn't be able to clear or gank early as well as Lee Sin. This is true to an extent with quite a few of the champions you named, but especially so with Jax.

J4's fallen off for a while now and I'm not particularly certain why.

This is not a jungler.

Just got buff, is doing all right now, though they're hardly top tier. Kindred is a flawed design.

I'm somewhat tempted to say fuck this champion again, though I'm more forgiving towards Nocturne. Noc just is outdated.

Has a rework coming up, and tank junglers in general are bad as I said before.

Is actually quite strong right now, due to the new mastery.

This guy was the top jungler like three months ago and is only held back by the new jungle (keep this statement in mind).

This is not a jungler.

Once again, tank junglers mostly suck right now.

Overnerfed due to pro play, still used in challenger elo. Will never be a good solo queue champion before masters with her current kit.

This is not a jungler.

Tank junglers are bad my man.

Sort of like Jax, this champion is too powerful late game to have good early pressure.

Has better ganks than Lee first of all, and only recently has been knocked out of the top tier in the jungle.

This is not a jungler.

Yeah, lee only has 3 junglers that can stand up to him and beat him and are the three junglers who can keep up with lee's clears and gank at the same time as him in addition to the same scale of ganks.

You only listed a single jungler that is actually top tier, that being Hecarim.

Here's some more that are as good or better than Lee Sin:

Ivern Shaco Graves Warwick

Those three are only on-par with which is the worst part... He outscales their usefulness lategame because of his ability to easily and safely W-Hop into the backline QQ R a squishy into His own team.

Hahahahahahahahahahah holy shit, you're seriously, aren't you?

Riven, Vi, and Hecarim all outscale Lee Sin, having more damage (Riven), more disruption (Hecarim), or both (Vi).

Each except maybe Hecarim can also out-duel Lee Sin as the game goes on. The other champions I named are also more powerful late game than Lee Sin is.

If lee fails to W hop in the right spot he can easily Q out from a minion Or ult so that the enemy frontine knocks back everyone else in that team.

The latter is only possible if the enemy team positions poorly.

Lee could also Q in and W-hop past the frontline to R the enemy squishies.

And do what? This won't bring the squishy into his team. They will proceed to lifesteal off of him (assuming and ADC anyway) and kill him. Alternatively, the squishy's team could not be filled with monkeys and could CC him before he can complete that incredibly telegraphed combo, then they kill him.

If the Squishy uses during they still go the same direction that they were going to be kicked before.

You can't flash out of most point and clicks. Why should Lee's kick be different?

And look at that... ult is on a low, low 60 second cooldown at level 18.

60 seconds can be eaten up in a snap by the team that has .

waveclear until lee ult back up for a really safe way for a garunteed win in a teamfight.

yeah sure... lee is "balanced"

Yeah the cooldown I'll grant is unusually low.

Anyway, you whine about all the champions that aren't viable and imply that Lee Sin should be brought down to their level, ignoring that Lee Sin is just a sympton of the real problem. The problem is that the current jungle only supports one type of jungler. The early pressure, gank-based junglers with strong early clears. The only one that really breaks this mold is Shaco. Tank junglers are bad. They clear slowly, while the gank junglers clear quickly, and proceed to have nothing else to do (due to the increase in death timers on camps) but go gank. This has also effectively killed carry junglers. Even Yi, the archetypical carry jungler, has had to change his build and playstyle to increase his early game strength to compete. Those that can't do that, like Udyr, are just bad.

You're asking for Lee Sin to be nerfed when you should really be asking for the jungle to get changes to make it less hostile to champions that aren't Lee Sin and those like him.

cheenis booshJan 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Tell that to the poor in the midlane who took a ward RQQ under tower and got murdered by and

Tell that to the botlane who got ward-W Q Q R'd and was killed by these three:

Tell that to all the junglers who can't clear as fast as Lee yet also(for the most part) have worse ganks than Lee

Yeah, lee only has 3 junglers that can stand up to him and beat him and are the three junglers who can keep up with lee's clears and gank at the same time as him in addition to the same scale of ganks.

Those three are only on-par with which is the worst part... He outscales their usefulness lategame because of his ability to easily and safely W-Hop into the backline QQ R a squishy into His own team.

If lee fails to W hop in the right spot he can easily Q out from a minion Or ult so that the enemy frontine knocks back everyone else in that team.

Lee could also Q in and W-hop past the frontline to R the enemy squishies.

If the Squishy uses during they still go the same direction that they were going to be kicked before.

And look at that... ult is on a low, low 60 second cooldown at level 18.

60 seconds can be eaten up in a snap by the team that has .

waveclear until lee ult back up for a really safe way for a garunteed win in a teamfight.

yeah sure... lee is "balanced"

I feel like you've never played Lee Sin lmfao.

ChaddyFantomeMar 16, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tejs Forfang,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cGlkbbAk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-15T22:00:08.812+0000)

Yes he's strong right now but...

Lee Sin has never been weak.

JefftiffyMar 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Lee Sin has never been weak.

Cinderhulk meta is the entire reason he has damage based on the first targets hp to other targets. So no that is not true.

ChaddyFantomeMar 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Cinderhulk meta is the entire reason he has damage based on the first targets hp to other targets. So no that is not true.

Pretty sure its flat damage was lowered in favor of the change in a bid to give him more incentive to peel tanks off his teammates instead of bursting squishies with it, not because he was "weak".

SintamaMar 16, 20171 votes

So like...a Graves level rework where he becomes pick/ban and a God instead of having an annoying (and avoidable) combo?

PePsiLemoNNMar 16, 20171 votes

Let's rework Ahri Riven Thresh Yasuo and all the champions with 2 forms ( Elise Jayce etc) too then?

notice me Sin piMar 16, 20171 votes

i actually agree with u, but they arent as problematic as lee sin. yasuo def is bad for game health but his ~~slightly being aatroxed~~ nerf made him see less play rate so i dont think they are really problematic as lee sin

cheenis booshJan 12, 20181 votes

Yeah, "overwhelming mobility" You know who has overwhelming mobility? Kayn Talon Camille Kassadin Leblanc Akali Yasuo and that's just talking mobility, there are so many other champions that are way stronger and straight up do more damage. Talon needs another rework, he can literally jump every single wall at no mana cost every 2 seconds, Kayn already has a wall dash (his Q) but then they give him the ability to walk through walls. Your argument is so flawed.

notice me Sin piJan 13, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=cheenis boosh,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cGlkbbAk,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-01-12T12:59:49.157+0000)

Yeah, "overwhelming mobility" You know who has overwhelming mobility? and that's just talking mobility, there are so many other champions that are way stronger and straight up do more damage. Talon needs another rework, he can literally jump every single wall at no mana cost every 2 seconds, Kayn already has a wall dash (his Q) but then they give him the ability to walk through walls. Your argument is so flawed.

Kayn : Released at July 12, 2017. Didnt exist 10 months ago when i made this post, so arguments made based on this champ is invalid and so flawed. Talon : it's a type of mobility that can actually be reacted against, and even predictable with experience and little map awareness, given he is played in lane rather than in jungle like lee sin. He also does not have as much utility as Lee Sin does. Camille : took pretty heavy blow from nerf bat. Riot tends to nerf the crap out of unhealthy champions so that they do not ruin the game so much. A mere temporary measure but even just temporary measure makes need for rework less urgent. Kassadin : he gives up overwhelming amount of resources for overwhelming mobility. He has a clear strength and clear weakness so it's fine. Leblanc : took pretty heavy blow from nerf bat. Riot tends to nerf the crap out of unhealthy champions so that they do not ruin the game so much. A mere temporary measure but even just temporary measure makes need for rework less urgent. Akali : It's her feast or famine nature that's more problematic than her mobility. But i do agree that her mobility is still overwhelming for the amount of damage and utility she has. Yasuo took pretty heavy blow from nerf bat. Riot tends to nerf the crap out of unhealthy champions so that they do not ruin the game so much. A mere temporary measure but even just temporary measure makes need for rework less urgent. Besides, his mobility is predictable and counter-able with experience.

When I say overwhelming mobility, I mean a champion is getting more mobility than what the power budget should allow. If Annie were to get a dash, I would call that overwhelming mobility, as an addition of mere dash would exceed the power budget. If Talon is allowed to cross walls, that is not an overwhelming mobility, since his 2 disadvantages [melee] and [no utility aside from stealth on ult cd] sets aside enough power budget for the mobility.

Right now as of January 13, 2018, Lee Sin fits in the [took pretty heavy blow from nerf bat. Riot tends to nerf the crap out of unhealthy champions so that they do not ruin the game so much. A mere temporary measure but even just temporary measure makes need for rework less urgent] category.

cheenis booshJan 13, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=notice me Sin pi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cGlkbbAk,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-01-13T06:52:38.592+0000)

: Released at July 12, 2017. Didnt exist 10 months ago when i made this post, so arguments made based on this champ is invalid and so flawed. : it's a type of mobility that can actually be reacted against, and even predictable with experience and little map awareness, given he is played in lane rather than in jungle like lee sin. He also does not have as much utility as Lee Sin does. : took pretty heavy blow from nerf bat. Riot tends to nerf the crap out of unhealthy champions so that they do not ruin the game so much. A mere temporary measure but even just temporary measure makes need for rework less urgent. : he gives up overwhelming amount of resources for overwhelming mobility. He has a clear strength and clear weakness so it's fine. : took pretty heavy blow from nerf bat. Riot tends to nerf the crap out of unhealthy champions so that they do not ruin the game so much. A mere temporary measure but even just temporary measure makes need for rework less urgent. : It's her feast or famine nature that's more problematic than her mobility. But i do agree that her mobility is still overwhelming for the amount of damage and utility she has. took pretty heavy blow from nerf bat. Riot tends to nerf the crap out of unhealthy champions so that they do not ruin the game so much. A mere temporary measure but even just temporary measure makes need for rework less urgent. Besides, his mobility is predictable and counter-able with experience.

When I say overwhelming mobility, I mean a champion is getting more mobility than what the power budget should allow. If Annie were to get a dash, I would call that overwhelming mobility, as an addition of mere dash would exceed the power budget. If Talon is allowed to cross walls, that is not an overwhelming mobility, since his 2 disadvantages [melee] and [no utility aside from stealth on ult cd] sets aside enough power budget for the mobility.

Right now as of January 13, 2018, Lee Sin fits in the [took pretty heavy blow from nerf bat. Riot tends to nerf the crap out of unhealthy champions so that they do not ruin the game so much. A mere temporary measure but even just temporary measure makes need for rework less urgent] category.

Talon mobility is not predictable, he can jump the same wall in probably 3 different ways, the cooldowns on said wall aren't even shown which means he could jump any wall at any time, Camille definitely was nerfed, but she still does crazy amounts of damage and is an excellent duelist, Obviously, you've never played Kassadin , he's definitely the most mobile champion in the game, if he hits level 16, you'll never catch him, his W restores 40% of his missing mana if hitting a champion, and 8% when hitting anything else, Leblanc is still mobile as shit, she wasn't nerfed too hard either, she still does typical AP burst damage, and retains her amount of mobility, Akali W makes it nearly impossible to catch her, and her ult is 100% resourceless point and click, 3 times on a super short cooldown, Yasuo might not be as mobile of the rest, but still does crazy damage and is definitely "unhealthy" gameplay wise. Your argument is invalid. Please look over what you said, everybody has been nerfed.

notice me Sin piJan 15, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=cheenis boosh,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cGlkbbAk,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2018-01-13T23:04:53.788+0000)

mobility is not predictable, he can jump the same wall in probably 3 different ways, the cooldowns on said wall aren't even shown which means he could jump any wall at any time, definitely was nerfed, but she still does crazy amounts of damage and is an excellent duelist, Obviously, you've never played , he's definitely the most mobile champion in the game, if he hits level 16, you'll never catch him, his W restores 40% of his missing mana if hitting a champion, and 8% when hitting anything else, is still mobile as shit, she wasn't nerfed too hard either, she still does typical AP burst damage, and retains her amount of mobility, W makes it nearly impossible to catch her, and her ult is 100% resourceless point and click, 3 times on a super short cooldown, might not be as mobile of the rest, but still does crazy damage and is definitely "unhealthy" gameplay wise. Your argument is invalid. Please look over what you said, everybody has been nerfed.

If my 1st answer was unsatisfying, here's another answer.

everybody has been nerfed, and that is indeed correct, which is why none of them were at 40% play rate like Lee Sin was 10 months ago. Some were higher, some were lower, but they were less of a priority than Lee Sin when I made this post 10 months ago. So... Lee Sin is so OP he has 40% play rate? Better complain about some other champ with 5% play rate! Seriously, why would anyone complain about a 3% play rate Akali when LeeSin is ruining 40% of all matchmade games at the time?

If you wish to see my opinions regarding Talon Camille Kassadin Leblanc Akali Yasuo , you probably will find them if u dig thru my profile in either form of a post or a comment to a well-upvoted post when those champs were the most problematic.

Le deserteur1Feb 5, 20181 votes

i'm a french lee sin main since the start of the game and the only one who said lee sin need a full rework are people who are boring to be destroyed byhim