will we ever see supports that specialize in helping fighters or mages?

Big Lincoln··136 votes·4,753 views

right now Ivern and Taric are the only 2 supports that expressly benefit non-marksmen more with an ability, ivern Q puts juggs/divers in melee and taric's W shield scales off of ally's max health

we don't have any support that is clearly meant to work great with casters or mages, either (no mana battery or spell empowerment), and even the items are either neutral or catering towards champions with high-damage auto attacks or high attack speed (read: marksmen) item 3050 item 3504

i would like to see this explored more, supports who would work VERY WELL into a mage-heavy comp by powering them up with damage or CDR that ignores the cap, or by keeping a resource-heavy champion going by refilling their mana bars during/after a fight. tools that let them play into fighter strengths with bonus damage scaling on ally HP, or adding % missing health sustain to them as a counterpart to ardent's flat healing being much better for lower-HP auto attackers.

just things like that. make supports more varied pls, there's a lot of unexplored territory with them. i would rather these things be on new champ kits, but items would be just fine, too.

158 Comments

ChargeItDownMid19 votes

[deleted]

BALDG1VEN BOOMER3 votes

At the end of the day every team comp is still going to revolve around their Marksman.

Big Lincoln1 votes

well Lulu's got a lot of generic things, the only thing I can think of that benefits melees mostly is the ult slow providing stick, but it's much better for peeling/disrupting. plus Pix AS steroid and the on-hits synergize immensely well with on-hit carries

I think it requires more deliberate synergy with specific champions than supports tend to have at current. % missing health healing or adding % of the target's max HP (or bonus HP) as bonus damage to their next attack would clearly be much stronger to put that buff on a beefy fighter or tank

likewise mages and bruisers like illaoi are more hungry for mana than marksmen are and item 3508 exists anyway so it would be obviously better to bond to them to mana-battery

chipndip13 votes

Lulu has a speed up and a massive slow for fleeing enemies. Also gives anyone she ults more health that isn't mitigated by GW and increased size, which means increased range. Still...no fighters bot lane.

AirKingNeo6 votes

Lulu is a big "fuck you" to bruisers.

Big Lincoln6 votes

most supports that are the best for a bruiser to play with are also the worst to play against

such is life

Pale Pirate4 votes

Lulu has:

  1. An attack speed steroid + on hit buff.
  2. Flat health bonus, possibly more useful on squishes because of their proportionally lower health.
  3. The ult's slow also helps ADC's at self peeling.
  4. The slow and polymorph, both easier to hit on a diver than a distant carry

I'm not sure why people are claiming she was supposed to synergize with bruisers. She seems a Janna level peeler to me.

Baron Perenolde2 votes

Oh? She has a movespeed buff, a shield and her her ultimate which adds a bit more oomph to an engage while also giving them some bonus hit points. Lulu pairs very well with bruisers. The problem is that her kit is so generalist (being a product of Xypherous) that she can also be a strong peeler or whatever the heck she wants to be (marksman, jungler, top, mid). I love the champion and her flexibility, but her kit will likely get gutted in any future VGU.

Weasel Kensei14 votes

Lulu's wild growth ult has a small (melee ranged) slow. While she can ult anyone and it be good, it makes melee champs so sticky its crazy.

https://youtu.be/sXoUAY-g9Fg?t=57

In that video you can see the ring around Gragas feet, thats the slow radius, it slows for 30 / 45 / 60%.

So I think we can add Lulu to the list of supports with an ability that is better for melees than ranged.

PB4UAME5 votes

Except, it has an equally better if not superior function in peeling for ranged carries or Lulu herself, and this is the route I see the ability being used far more frequently.

The flat health increase matters a helluva lot more to a squishy glass cannon that refuses to buy a defensive item than to a Juggernaut, Diver or tank, and even the melee skirmishers have higher base health and more built in defensive mechanics than most ADCs have.

Orangesilk3 votes

Lulu was fantastic back when farm jungles could carry. You slap her buffs on Jax MasterYi Shyvana Udyr XinZhao Warwick and it gets messy.

BlunterMonk4 votes

I think most people tend to save her ult as a disengage tool rather then an engage like I do. As a Lulu main I find myself running around with Bruisers and tanks a lot more then the ADC once laning phase ends. She has great engage and disengage potential and her ult works phenomenally on divers. Maybe it's just me but I see Lulu as a perfect fit for AD melee champs, divers, and tanks alike. She's great for aggressive play but will pop if the enemy can jump on her.

Ariel the Cruel14 votes

Karma We haven't forgotten what you did, Riot. (>_>)

WinTheWarOnPants13 votes

Sejuani ?

Big Lincoln2 votes

f u

WinTheWarOnPants5 votes

[zombie-nunu-tears]

TwitchInMyPants11 votes

Janna's E literally gives temporary AD, what if someone had an AP centric buff?

Abyssphere4 votes

Lulu used to give AP (on her shield IIRC) but they got rid of it. Not sure why.

Champion Skin3 votes

No it was actually Lulu W which used to give AP but now it gives attack speed

FantasySniper11 votes

Soraka I miss mana healing.

ChaddyFantome5 votes

{quoted}

http://cdn.staticneo.com/w/leagueoflegends/a/ae/KarmaIcon.png

I don't care what it takes but Riot needs to bring back OG Karma.

fuffychan10 votes

Blame Riot for their stupid "meta"

I miss Season 2 when people took anything anywhere

Big Lincoln4 votes

i never played that far back. preseason 4 scrub that i am

fuffychan7 votes

It was LoL like youve never seen it before. You may have gotten a feeling similar if you played Nemesis Draft when they had it (where is it?).

There was no "support" role. Usually a ADC or mage "some guy who thinks he can carry" would call mid. Other than that nobody "called" anything. People picked whatever, mages, bruisers, ADCs, assassins, all went anywhere. There were bruisers, tanks everywhere in any lane. It was perfectly normal to have 2 tanks vs 2 tanks in bot and they would share gold.

Xonra24 votes

It was clearly LoL like you've never seen it before either, because you are just making stuff up lol

It Hertz When IP4 votes

I can tell you S1 was a shit-ton more flexible. Maybe not quite the free4all that fuffychan claims, but it was leaps and bounds more relaxed. Nearly every champion could function to some extent in jungle, melee champs (not assassins) went mid often.

ModFrom The Cosmos41 votes

I'm not positive what Season 2 you're referring too, but there was the same basic meta of ADC/Support bottom lane, Jungler who was either a tank (Amumu, Sej) or farming fighter (Master Yi, Udyr) with a utility/control mage mid (Sometimes assassin) and a tank or bruiser top lane.

The champion pool was a lot smaller, so it may have felt like more picks were viable, but this is not the case. The only real difference you could draw between the meta now and back then is that teamfight AOE wombo combo compositions were more popular and played more frequently. (Think - Malphite, Miss Fortune, Sona, Orianna and Lee Sin)

I'm just happy we don't have cloth 5 as the starting items for all junglers like it was before there were seasons. Clear one camp with cloth armor and 5 pots, then have to back.

Electro5221 votes

[{quoted}](name=From The Cosmos,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cFI35MVs,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-07-20T23:30:15.091+0000)

I'm just happy we don't have cloth 5 as the starting items for all junglers like it was before there were seasons. Clear one camp with cloth armor and 5 pots, then have to back.

Damn, really? Even with a leash?

Durzaka1 votes

There wasnt any jungle items, and Smite didnt heal you.

Jungling back in the day was true hell. If you werent Nunu, Warwick, or Fiddlesticks, you basically got fucked over and over by jungle mobs.

Purejoyce7 votes

Jungling back in the day was true hell. If you werent Nunu, Warwick, or Fiddlesticks, you basically got fucked over and over by jungle mobs.

Jungle was harder, but saying that you had to play these champions or "you got fucked" is just a blatant lie.

Moonfall Saber3 votes

Yea jungling back then wasn't nearly as important as it is now. Yoi had to buy wards so alot of people didn't and getting ganked was fucking terrifying. Fiddlesticks ult out of nowhere and then you die because you jumped out of your chair in fear.

Poske2 votes

It really wasnt that bad..

Bulimia Vomit7 votes

Pre-Rework Karma.

Flawless Fetus7 votes

We did at one point, but they reworked karma :^]

Clementine4 votes

Taric's E also works better when bonded with melee (for the stun range).

And I hope so too. As a support player, I would really like to be able to help mages (increasing ap, mana regen, maybe flat mana, something) more too.

Spice POWAH4 votes

I feel like some supports could be updated to work for either. For example, Janna could have her shield give AD or AP Adaptively, like with the new runes.

Some other supports are pretty class-neutral, like soraka or nami. But I know you're asking for ones that benefit one specifically. Morgana could shred MR with her W maybe? There's lots of potential already there, but I don't have much time to think of it now.

ChaosThief3 votes

Morgana's W actually did shred MR some time ago. They removed it because it conflicted with spell order (you would want to W>Q for maximum damage, but that didn't work as well as Q>W. )

Morgan le Fey3 votes

item 3504 is really nice with JaxXinZhaoMasterYiKayle, but I can never seem to get anyone to play them when I'm playing an enchanter support. That said, that's largely for the same reasons it helps marksmen, as you said.

BlitzcrankMordekaiser is a really nice combo, so there's always that. Thresh is also a pretty big deal for melees due to his Q-W engage potential. Imagine if Kalista's ult was on a support, though! That could be pretty nice.

Need Gold 4 Tent4 votes

Kayle Yi is already a thing, although I guess her kit doesnt really differentiate ranged vs melee. The ult functions differently though. As a traditional marksman support, it is an anti dive tool. However, with Olaf or Yi, it is a diving tool.

I Like Things 3 votes

#Release Karma + 4 melee

######good times.. good times.

+1 OP

koshkyra3 votes

Janna Lulu Sona Leona Nami directly enhance their allies AA damage+AD

Where are our AP amplifiers?

Awoof9 votes

{quoted}

Where are our AP amplifiers?

Lulu Removed.

Bronze Demon2 votes

anything that benefits fighters, marksmen will benefit more from. the benefit of having range is too much.

there may be possible ways to help mages tho

Big Lincoln4 votes

you could always just go the sejuani route and cut off ranged benefit entirely

also, if for example there were base AD steroids instead of flat AD, a damage buff that scaled off teammate health, or % missing healing

Kariu Rena2 votes

Thresh Karma ? Just to list a few that allows mages to position horribly with their 1000 range and still be safe

or by keeping a resource-heavy champion going by refilling their mana bars during/after a fight.

lol yeah running out of mana in season 7 as mages LUL

Big Lincoln4 votes

not just mages that have mana my friendo

Catastrop2 votes

I remember when Lulu could give allies AP, good times, not sure why it was removed though.

Also prerework Soraka who could give you mana.

Sraeg20134 votes

I remember how I played APraka mid and a half-dead, manaless Pantheon passed through. It was as if he just walked out of the fountain.

*sob*

Good times.

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