Sejuani needs to be nerfed...

Cloud273·Oct 14, 2017·39 votes·3,290 views

She's been pick or ban at Worlds/LCS ever since her rework. If that's not enough for you, she also has a 54% win rate on champion.gg.

41 Comments

PennsOct 14, 20175 votes

reminds me of galio and rammus and gragas

nerf cc tanks 2k17

AirKingNeoOct 15, 20172 votes

boards dislike logic tho

BobaFlautistOct 14, 20175 votes

That's a funny way to spell "reverted"...

LankPantsOct 15, 20175 votes

Sejuani's entire rework was a mistake. It's a complete departure from pre-rework Sej in terms of playstyle and generally disliked by mains who've played since the rework. That's before mentioning it's a cancer design that most people seem to hate playing against.

The best move for Sejuani would be a full revert. She was simply a better champion before her rework.

ArakadiaOct 15, 20175 votes

Some parts of the rework are good. A full revert would be very bad.

And please don't make claims about how people like new Sejuani without evidence.

LankPantsOct 15, 20172 votes

Some parts of the rework are good. A full revert would be very bad.

Like what? Her W feels like shit to use. Her E is a completely cancerous spell that makes it impossible for melees to play into her. Her passive promotes a hit-and-run style of gameplay with Warmog's which she never had before her rework and no-one was asking for. Her R feels dull and unimpactful for an ult.

And please don't make claims about how people like new Sejuani without evidence.

Unlike you I actually main Sejuani and talk to other people who do as well. No, old Sejunai mains are not happy with this rework.

ArakadiaOct 15, 20173 votes

Like what? Her W feels like shit to use. Her E is a completely cancerous spell that makes it impossible for melees to play into her. Her passive promotes a hit-and-run style of gameplay with Warmog's which she never had before her rework and no-one was asking for. Her R feels dull and unimpactful for an ult.

Her old ult held so much of her power budget it was crazy. So of course her new ult is going to feel worse (although its still quite strong).

Her new W is way better designed then her old glorified sheen into sunfire cape.

Unlike you I actually main Sejuani and talk to other people who do as well. No, old Sejunai mains are not happy with this rework.

Uhh. There is 0 way that you have talked to enough other Sejuani players to acquire accurate opinions and evidence. I can say I've talked to many old Sejuani mains and they love the new rework, but without more information and proof that means nothing.

GayFluffyUnicornOct 15, 20172 votes

Ofc a bunch of "mains" love the new sejuani. Freelo, nothing else.

ArakadiaOct 15, 20172 votes

That was an example.

xJLx MCHammerOct 14, 20174 votes

I think she just needs a slight nerf on her clear speed in the jungle.... SLIGHT nerf

BoilTheOilOct 15, 20178 votes

her clears are slow

KnoyleOct 15, 20172 votes

I'd argue Rammus clears faster than her so no...

VelvetCrotchOct 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'd argue Rammus clears faster than her so no...

exactly. fu rammus is OP as hell.

VelvetCrotchOct 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cEuJBjTy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-14T19:43:54.436+0000)

I think she just needs a slight nerf on her clear speed in the jungle.... SLIGHT nerf

clear speed? thats her worst thing. she got always (even before the rework) not a great clearspeed! look at f riot-baby lee sin.

raffleszOct 14, 20174 votes

Meanwhile twitch meta continues with no end in sight...

lovely. the one tank of two that can engage on twitch though, better nerf her.

Cloud273Oct 14, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile twitch meta continues with no end in sight...

lovely. the one tank of two that can engage on twitch though, better nerf her.

Nerf BOTH of them. Sejuani is only slightly OP. Twitch will probably need more significant nerfs to be balanced.

LankPantsOct 15, 20171 votes

Sejuani is only slightly OP.

I strongly disagree. Sejuani's broken by design, you can nerf her all you want but she'll never be balanced. Eventually you could make her useless but the way her kit's structured leaves her as an impossible champ to actually balance.

ArakadiaOct 15, 20172 votes

Why does her kitcause her to only be OP or UP? She has SO many balance levers I disagree.

LankPantsOct 15, 20171 votes

What balance levers?

If you reduce her damage she fails to clear the jungle and becomes useless, same for her passive bulk early game. Her CC is the only thing that truly keeps her relevant, so you can't pull that lever without crippling her. Without her lategame bulk from her passive she just explodes in teamfights doing nothing without her AoE CC, so you can't really nerf significantly there.

All this leaves one lever, you can nerf her lategame damage, a surefire way to piss off Sejuani mains considering prerework her identity was AoE damage in the late game.

ArakadiaOct 15, 20173 votes

If you reduce her damage she fails to clear the jungle and becomes useless, same for her passive bulk early game.

Or you reduce her damage and she just has a slower clear. There is a middle ground.

same for her passive bulk early game.

Or you reduce it only a little and potentially increase/decrease against certain types of enemies. Again there is a middle ground.

Her CC is the only thing that truly keeps her relevant, so you can't pull that lever without crippling her.

She's a tank. So that makes sense.

Without her lategame bulk from her passive she just explodes in teamfights doing nothing without her AoE CC, so you can't really nerf significantly there.

Nerf her passive just some not a lot. Or maybe nerf it then redistribute power else where (maybe just stat buffs) so she remains tanky but less so without her passive.

she just explodes in teamfights doing nothing without her AoE CC, so you can't really nerf significantly there.

You can nerf the size, the cooldowns, the duration, the range. There is a lot of nerf potential here.

All this leaves one lever, you can nerf her lategame damage, a surefire way to piss off Sejuani mains considering prerework her identity was AoE damage in the late game.

You can nerf her damage if need be. A lot of old Fiora players loved her ult but it was unhealthy so it needed to be removed.

Cloud273Oct 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I strongly disagree. Sejuani's broken by design, you can nerf her all you want but she'll never be balanced. Eventually you could make her useless but the way her kit's structured leaves her as an impossible champ to actually balance.

I don't think Sejuani's kit is inherently broken. I think she's simply overtuned in her current state. She's your typical cc tank. She dives your backline and cc's everyone. In her current state her damage is a little too strong considering how much hard cc she has access to. If Riot just nerfs her numbers a bit she'll probably be fine.

Twitch on the other hand is a different story. You can't just nerf his numbers and expect him to be balanced. He has other things like stealth, true damage, and the ability to bypass tanks with his ult that make him difficult to balance. It doesn't matter how much armor your tanks have. Twitch can just ignore them and aoe burst everyone (and from a very safe distance at that). Combined with his stealth you don't even know where he is half the time. I don't know what Riot is going to do to him but he is WAY too strong in his current state.

Shepherd o SoulsOct 15, 20171 votes

Honestly, instead of nerfing every individual adc/enchanter I think it's better off to just nerf the items that make every single one powerful. I'd like to see how strong twitch would be if he didn't kill you in 2 crits out of invis.

Nerfing twitch is just going to make the other hyper carries picked more, won't fix anything wrong with bot lane, same with nerfing individual enchanters.

Tanks on the other hand could probably use individual nerfs because tanks like maokai and sej do good due to kit mostly.

Jet SettOct 15, 20171 votes

Then maybe we should nerf both since not every champion performs at the same level of Twitch and it'd be irresponsible to hold them all to his standard.

GayFluffyUnicornOct 15, 20171 votes

"Well twitch stats are not as bad as reddit makes it seem" "we dont nerf twitch now because preseason comes anyways" "lets buff a bunch of champs before preseason because lulz". Rito wants this game to die. There is no other explanation-

FeathermaneOct 15, 20174 votes

Hotfix list: Azir Chogath Ekko Ezreal Fiora Galio Gnar Janna Jayce Katarina Khazix KogMaw Orianna Rakan Sejuani Syndra Twitch Vayne Vladimir Warwick Xayah item 3504 item 3076

Decent effort by the balance team overall this season.

Zëd LęppelinOct 15, 20172 votes

Are you saying Warwick Khazix Katarina Jayce is op?!

dominusxOct 15, 20171 votes

Kha is garbage lol. I used to pick him into every comp and maintained 65+wr now i dont even bother picking him over Rhaast Kayne or Olaf,

One35Oct 14, 20173 votes

Check the PBE; she got a major nerf.

Permafrost (E) damage lowered from 40/60/80/100/120 to 20/30/40/50/60

TBH I'd have preferred if she got less CC instead, but this works as well.

ForgottenLuckOct 15, 20173 votes

I mean.. whats the play rate? 54% in itself is not really that bad if her play rate is small, plus there are also many champs in worlds getting permabanned (I would imagine those need nerfs first if we take your logic no) like Kalista , Xayah , JarvanIV . Now I ain't saying she strong or weak but I am saying your argument could use a lot of work.

AmazoXOct 15, 20173 votes

To be very honest with the community. I want her to stay strong right now simply because ADC rule Heaven and Earth, We need champions like Sejuani to freeze the overflowing force ADC+Support have in this current Meta [sg-poppy]

DragonSheaOct 14, 20172 votes

Dayum, MR is getting nerf across the board. One step to making mages happy.

Rakdos CacklerOct 15, 20172 votes

I'd like to say I love the Sej rework, she feels so much better to play since the rework. I like the W, the E's kinda eh, but her ult feels similar, her W is INFINITELY better, and she just feels more like a champion. I had around 90k on here before her rework, and I'm sitting on about 180k now, and I think she's really great.

AbibyamaOct 15, 20171 votes

You’re actually the first here to like her rework. You’ll be purged for heresy

invisiblecat1Oct 15, 20172 votes

How about we nerf Twitch right after?

Daddy AntsOct 14, 20171 votes

Sejuani Base AD increased from 56 to 64 - To account for runes changes Base armor increased from 27 to 36 - To account for runes changes

Actual nerfs Base MR lowered from 32.1 to 27.1 MR growth lowered from 1.25 to .75 Armor growth lowered from 4 to 3 Permafrost (E) damage lowered from 40/60/80/100/120 to 20/30/40/50/60

RainbowIceeOct 15, 20171 votes

I think Gragas needs base stats neft too. He does damage, and has soo much sustain at no draw back.

Wet DrymanOct 15, 20171 votes

For having huge base stats without any drawbacks his winrate and playrate is pretty low.

RainbowIceeOct 15, 20171 votes

only because there's an overwelming problem atm that's not him. Also people should stop referring sooo hard on inaccurate statistics from a 3rd party site. Riot has said it multiple times, those sites are wrong by about 5%. It's cool to use as a reference i guess, but not as evidence.

Wet DrymanOct 15, 20171 votes

The same sites are often used by Riot members in argumentation, mainly lolalytics and leagueofgraphs (and I took stats from there). Strangely most of nerfs/bans/buffs correlate with data present on these sites.

ZT XperimentorOct 15, 20171 votes

That's it, those are your only reasons? Next.

General Esdeath Oct 15, 20171 votes

The problem is that old Sej was bad at clears, like this one, but made up for it with amazing team fighting from her ult and CC. New Sej still has a good teamfight ult, but can now gank lanes early and late, making her one of those "viable at all stages" champs.