"I watched a clickbait Youtube video and now I think Maokai is garbage"

dunder kill·Apr 20, 2017·56 votes·3,471 views

"I'm going to ignore the fact that the Quinn in that video has 800 move speed without Youmuu's even popped. No champion in the game besides maybe Hecarim and Rammus could even reasonably approach those numbers, but I'm going to use it as proof that the new Maokai is trash"

Thats what I've gathered from the boards. Are people really under the impression that it doesnt catch up to people except in the most extreme circumstances? Are you aware that most auto attacks and abilities can't even catch a Quinn thats moving that fast?

Clickbait Youtube videos are doing some serious damage to the community

75 Comments

Sahn UzalApr 20, 201721 votes

I don't care about the Clickbait video.

I care about scenarios where I'll never be able to use W on a Fiora, I care about being unable to use my W for a catch on a Tristana because she'll W away and take me with her to her team. ''but that can already happen'' yes but this gives people way more reaction time to do that, making it way more reliable.

TheJakeinatorApr 20, 201716 votes

It is almost like counterplay should be a thing or something

Sahn UzalApr 20, 201722 votes

Sion is my second highest mastery. I am all for counterplay done right. This however is stupid.

TyrekGoldenspearApr 20, 20172 votes

Huh. Didn't expect Sion to be your no. 2 main.

crippler38Apr 20, 20172 votes

Trains and Barrels apparently, the man's a regular DK.

Note: I don't know Tidal, I'll never know Tidal, I just wanted to share my joke.

SpecterVonBarenApr 21, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Note: I don't know Tidal, I'll never know Tidal,

Not with that attitude you won't.

crippler38Apr 21, 20172 votes

not while living in NA as a bronze 4 either.

Chromatic EagleApr 21, 20171 votes

You can know me in that case.

Sahn UzalApr 20, 20173 votes

There are some similarities :P Both are pretty damn telegraphed, both have this ''high Counterplay High Reward'' desing theory, both make me feel like I can always get better at them, and both are objectivly manly as fuck. :^)

RenownedWheat42Apr 20, 201711 votes

I saw it used in-game in one of Foxdrop's recent uploads, and it IS really slow. I thought so even before the Quinn video.

EedatApr 20, 20175 votes

It's supposed to be slow. It's supposed to give people more time to react. In return he got a ton of CC with his new ult and some other damage redistribution. Changing his W allows more power to be added to the rest of his kit.

AbiwonKenabiApr 20, 20173 votes

His ult is just as slow though. W was very important to Maokai because he had to be fairly close for his whole kit to be effective. Now they have this weird...like long range engage/flank I guess? Follow-up engage? I'm not really sure what his new play pattern was intended to be.

jinxedchefApr 21, 20174 votes

You can recall before his ult get to you.

Mech0pApr 21, 20172 votes

hahahahah so true lol... I could just imagine someone being troll seeing him ult and just recall and not even be halfway to get him yet... hell he could probably get back to lane as well and then dodge it... unless maokai is on top of you that ult is completely useless

D3m37r1Apr 20, 20173 votes

I saw it in Anklespankin's video. Someone in the comments said it was bugged. Let's hope it's true.

TheSnackenApr 20, 20172 votes

Its Rioter confirmed. It's supposed to accelerate, snd they're working on a solution

SchàdenfreudeApr 20, 20172 votes

Whats a Tioter?

The Lost MarblesApr 20, 20179 votes

Basically everything about Twisted Advance got nerfed except for its mana cost at ranks 1-3, though.

dunder killApr 20, 20178 votes

And he gained power in the rest of his kit. Maokai as he is now is good for flash-rooting a carry and generic tank stats from his Ult. Thats all he is. They needed to take power away from his W so they could add to the rest of his kit

The Lost MarblesApr 20, 20171 votes

[deleted]

dunder killApr 20, 20175 votes

As opposed to now? All he does is W-Q a carry then walk around with his tank stats until his W comes off CD again. At least now he can CC 2-3 people with his ult in fights.

jinxedchefApr 21, 20173 votes

You are really god damn stupid if you think the rest of his kit gained power. His new ult may be the most worthless ult in the game. It is just a slower Nami ult that doesn't even stun/knock up, it just roots.

Mech0pApr 21, 20173 votes

with gaps in between and each root only grabs one person... if his w gets sped up to the old speed I can see the ult being extremely useful as its hard to dodge when its right next to you but if they can see you comin everything is ruined...

SqkergApr 21, 20172 votes

The current version of twisted advanced on the pbe is bugged.

r4ndomkillApr 21, 20171 votes

they changed it speed back to live values today.

Big LincolnApr 20, 20176 votes

and then the Udyr runs you back to the middle of his team and beats the shit out of you

l Helios lApr 20, 20176 votes

Couldn't catch an ulting Rakan who charmed the entire team. There's some merit to calling the W change bad.

SqkergApr 21, 20172 votes

It's also a bug, so no, there no merit.

l Helios lApr 21, 20171 votes

What's the bug? That it's slow? If so that's nice.

LeetriApr 21, 20171 votes

They were trying a version where it accelerates over the duration, so it starts slow and builds up speed. That didn't work though, so they've reverted it back to the Live speed.

l Helios lApr 21, 20171 votes

Oh that's nice. I wouldn't mind it accelerating, just the initial slow speed feels bad.

SSJTribeApr 21, 20171 votes

That was the bug if I understood correctly, it was supposed to start slow and accelerate but it wasn't accelerating.

l Helios lApr 21, 20171 votes

Ok cool. Guess I'll reevaluate my stance once I can try it again without the bug.

GULAG 4 UApr 21, 20175 votes

it's also a bug. Not intended feature.

OtherworldzApr 20, 20174 votes

I think people forget that all reworked abilities are tentative and subject to change.

His old w was a tad on the strong side but we'll see what riot decides

MelledoneusApr 20, 20174 votes

Except Riot has a track record of leaving in some very questionable abilities.

starelementpokeApr 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Except Riot has a track record of leaving in some very questionable abilities.

I still rue Darius' ignite passive and base armour shred...

SchàdenfreudeApr 20, 20173 votes

He had that even before the rework. His passive did even more damage back then.

jinxedchefApr 21, 20172 votes

Remember when Riot Olafed Olaf and he wasn't played for 2-3 years?

LeetriApr 21, 20171 votes

They've even said that the W speed was a bug. It was intended to start slow and speed up, but the acceleration didn't work. They've already reverted it back to the Live speed on the PBE.

Cosmic WarperApr 20, 20174 votes

No, maokai isn't just garbage because of his w being slower. He lost damage reduction on his ult, a long ass cd on his passive, and lower damage on q and w for some unreliable damage on E.

nice tableApr 21, 20174 votes

"most auto attacks don't reach a 800 ms character" what are you challenged?

Very Hard EngageApr 20, 20172 votes

yeah but theres thresh lantern, flash, ghost, bard portals, vi, basically any dash or teleport breaks 750ms.

if you use it when they use their mobility ability then you will never interrupt it, only land after they do and be alone.... and dead...

doiminat0r3600Apr 21, 20172 votes

The clickbait video isn't even clickbait though. It brings to life the point of Quinn's ult being too fast for Maokai's W. Sure in the video item 3742 was fully stacked and everything but with all of these slight buffs, maokai got 1/3rd the distance of the quinn with all the buffs. Quinn should still be able to outrun maokai with only her ult.

I looked through the comments in the thread you mentioned and hardly saw any upvoted comments saying that Maokai is garbage. The point of the video isn't even about all of Maokai's kit. It's only about the speed of his W. Where you got this "maokai is garbage" thing is beyond me.

Skins ProjectApr 21, 20173 votes

There was a bug with Mao W..

It's why they release things on PBE first.

It was supposed to start slow and become faster...

It's rioter confirmed now.

doiminat0r3600Apr 21, 20171 votes

I know it's a bug. But we don't know what the max speed will end up being. Quinn could very well still outrun Maokai's W, even at full speed.

We can't guarentee this won't happen with the final release.

Skins ProjectApr 21, 20172 votes

NOTE

That was a bug...

Post was released a bit ago..

Speed is supposed to increase over time.. That was the base..

The speed not increasing was a bug so riot is gonna fix that.

junglerboy16Apr 21, 20171 votes

So I know that since this was originally posted Riot explained that this was a bug for Maokai, but either way I'm gonna throw in my two cents here; I mained Maokai jungle back before his first rework and VU, back when he cast his ult in an AoE on the ground and his W had a cast time and you could play him as a legit mage in addition to a tank. That W cast time meant that 90% of champs with any form of mobility (all if you count flash) could reposition maokai's end location at will, and while it had trade offs for both sides (usually wasted escape tools from the target, and unpredictable end location for Mao) it was a much healthier ability, even though it had significantly longer range and higher travel time. I'd rather they give it back the range and cast time, returning it's strategic strength AND its counterplay.

Especially now that they finally gave him the passive fix I've been pushing for for years (boost the heal but make it only work on Mao's abilities) and tuned his saplings to be extra strong jungle vision, if they were to buff the cast range in exchange for the cast speed, Maokai could finally return to the jungle where he belongs.

DoozkuApr 21, 20171 votes

He will be a jungler, his ultimate is just too good for ganking and his clears are insane.

junglerboy16Apr 21, 20171 votes

His ult looked way too slow from what I've seen, it mostly looks like a zoning tool. They'll probably tweak that around though, and we know they're gonna fix his W so that won't be an issue.

That said, the sapling and passive buffs are hella strong indeed for the jungle, especially early clearing. I'm so excited to get my main back :D