Why is there so much hate for ADC?

AR URF·Nov 28, 2017·11 votes·3,365 views

Don't just dismiss this as shit posting because there area few claims that need to be addressed. 1. ADC are doing way to much damage. The truth is ADC needs a late game build to do damage. It's different when you can burst someone down with 1.5 items vs an ADC's 2-3 items. 2. ADC just right clicks. This one is a funny claim. There was a story where I was playing vayne and a veigar kept reminding me how bad I was doing. I simply said "if you think it's so easy how about you play her" he said "silly, I don't own vayne". So I said "than don't say you just right click" So if you ask me, ADC don't just right click. I still can't kite for shit when playing one.3. the ADC role snowballs too much. The truth is any role that gets a lead snowballs. If Katarina goes 3/0 in 5-10 minutes, you can expect her to roam constantly. And it's not just Katarina. Any champion with mobility will do that. Fizz, Yasuo, I've seen GP do it. You can't really categorize it into a specific role that snowballs because snowballing is just a condition of the gold you get from kills and CS. I've seen more top laners cs better than ADC.

My only problem with the ADC role is that everyone acts like Tyler1.

58 Comments

JbelsNov 28, 20178 votes

Most of the ADC hatred I have is a result of the negative stereotypes ADC players have about tanks. You wouldn't believe the outrageously stupid bullshit that some of these people shovel.

"Tanks burst ADCs from 100 to zero all the time, why shouldn't I be able to survive tank burst?" "Tanks never die!" "Tanks shouldn't be able to survive as long as they do for how much damage they have!"

I have had to hear these bullshit claims for years, and one day Riot acted on them and wiped out pretty much the entire tank roster except for Zac, Galio, and Sejauni. How did they react to that?

"omg fucking tank meta, all I ever see is Zac, Sejauni and Galio!"

Yes, it's totally a fucking tank meta when 3 overtuned tanks are meta and the rest of the tank class is fucking dumpstered. This is the shit I can't stand, ESPECIALLY coming off of a season that was dominated for several consecutive patches by ADCs never dying and doing way too much fucking damage.

DisembarkNov 29, 20171 votes

Yeah man, ADCs are the only ones bitching in a tank meta. Its not like you see carry junglers bitching about tanks cause "they're braindead" or top laners "they do the most damage 1v1 and tanky!!!"

Nope, its only ADC mains.

ElkingtonNov 29, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Most of the ADC hatred I have is a result of the negative stereotypes ADC players have about tanks. You wouldn't believe the outrageously stupid bullshit that some of these people shovel.

"Tanks burst ADCs from 100 to zero all the time, why shouldn't I be able to survive tank burst?" "Tanks never die!" "Tanks shouldn't be able to survive as long as they do for how much damage they have!"

I have had to hear these bullshit claims for years, and one day Riot acted on them and wiped out pretty much the entire tank roster except for Zac, Galio, and Sejauni. How did they react to that?

"omg fucking tank meta, all I ever see is Zac, Sejauni and Galio!"

Yes, it's totally a fucking tank meta when 3 overtuned tanks are meta and the rest of the tank class is fucking dumpstered. This is the shit I can't stand, ESPECIALLY coming off of a season that was dominated for several consecutive patches by ADCs never dying and doing way too much fucking damage.

What makes this worse is that most of them lump bruisers and tanks in the same category. It's like they're playing an entirely different game from everyone else, barring supports.

Athenes LuluNov 29, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Most of the ADC hatred I have is a result of the negative stereotypes ADC players have about tanks. You wouldn't believe the outrageously stupid bullshit that some of these people shovel.

"Tanks burst ADCs from 100 to zero all the time, why shouldn't I be able to survive tank burst?" "Tanks never die!" "Tanks shouldn't be able to survive as long as they do for how much damage they have!"

I have had to hear these bullshit claims for years, and one day Riot acted on them and wiped out pretty much the entire tank roster except for Zac, Galio, and Sejauni. How did they react to that?

"omg fucking tank meta, all I ever see is Zac, Sejauni and Galio!"

Yes, it's totally a fucking tank meta when 3 overtuned tanks are meta and the rest of the tank class is fucking dumpstered. This is the shit I can't stand, ESPECIALLY coming off of a season that was dominated for several consecutive patches by ADCs never dying and doing way too much fucking damage.

I'm pretty sure a lot of the same complaints come from other squishies like mages, assassins, and even some supports.

Stop spreading false information just to convince that only ADCs have fault.

JbelsNov 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cE16MmkU,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2017-11-29T01:56:33.844+0000)

I'm pretty sure a lot of the same complaints come from other squishies like mages, assassins, and even some supports.

Stop spreading false information just to convince that only ADCs have fault.

Not really false information when I was there to see it happen.

Athenes LuluNov 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Not really false information when I was there to see it happen.

Then you should hear from more people.

That one ADC from that one game isn't enough to base the opinions of an entire class.

JbelsNov 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cE16MmkU,comment-id=0002000200000000,timestamp=2017-11-29T02:22:32.131+0000)

Then you should hear from more people.

That one ADC from that one game isn't enough to base the opinions of an entire class.

I have nothing against the class. I have something against the people who operate under the delusion that ADCs aren't favored over the majority of other classes, and most of the people who disagree with that sentiment play the class and are naturally biased because of it.

Flawless FetusNov 29, 20175 votes

Because people who can't play adc are salty that "all they do is right click". I'm a good adc (I guess that's up for debate but I'm diamond level adc), but I hate playing the role - even if I main it. It's so demanding. And, contrary to popular belief, super team reliant. The assassin mains who are sad they can't 1v5 to kill the carry don't know that, though. Lol.

FOR JUSTICENov 29, 20174 votes

mostly because non adc players think all they do is just run around and 1 shot people, but as a support main I can tell you 3 reasons this is never true, and why the adc is almost never left alone:

theyre a lategame class, require early snowballing to be relevant
are extremely squishy
need reliable peel, they cant just run up and expect to win

if the enemy is competent enough to ward, they can see twitch sneaks and roams if they have a way to get to the backline, and I mean ANY ONE at all, the adc is dead (because they all pretty much build glass cannon)

but mostly people think the adc can solo carry because of the fact that they have the biggest KDA, and with most people for whatever reason, KDA equates to skill. marksmen as a whole are usually biased because the majority of the playerbase wont see how fed botlane is getting until they show up at their lane critting for 1.5k damage. then they either say x is broken or y fed such and such

tl;dr

is team reliant
cant make plays 100% solo
must be dealt with EARLY

AR URFNov 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

mostly because non adc players think all they do is just run around and 1 shot people, but as a support main I can tell you 3 reasons this is never true, and why the adc is almost never left alone:

theyre a lategame class, require early snowballing to be relevant

are extremely squishy

need reliable peel, they cant just run up and expect to win

if the enemy is competent enough to ward, they can see twitch sneaks if they have a way to get to the backline, and I mean ANY ONE at all, the adc is dead (because they all pretty much build glass cannon)

but mostly people think the adc can solo carry because of the fact that they have the biggest KDA, and with most people for whatever reason, KDA equates to skill.

Got to love when the person who got the best peel and ended up with the highest KDA says some shit like "your asses got carried"

FOR JUSTICENov 29, 20173 votes

LMFAOOO EXACTLY I built 1.5k heals shields gave 2 forms of disengage got you through your laning phase and warded to make sure you didn't die

OMGGG TEAM WTF WHY AM I THE ONLY ONE DOING ANYTHING

DuskDaUmbreonNov 28, 20173 votes

One note about ADC snowballing:

They don't snowball as easily, but they snowball harder. As they are a late-game class, if they start snowballing in early, they pretty much don't ever fall off. It's the same thing as if a Nasus or Veigar gets fed to hell. But, as their items are more expensive, they take more kills to start snowballing (5-8, whereas someone like Kat, who's pretty much going to snowball, starts snowballing at 2-3 kills).

AhrisNov 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

One note about ADC snowballing:

They don't snowball as easily, but they snowball harder. As they are a late-game class, if they start snowballing in early, they pretty much don't ever fall off. It's the same thing as if a Nasus or Veigar gets fed to hell. But, as their items are more expensive, they take more kills to start snowballing (5-8, whereas someone like Kat, who's pretty much going to snowball, starts snowballing at 2-3 kills).

Kata, nasus, and veigar can be countered by items such as qss and cc against kata(she is also melee), adc lacks too much counterplay especially if the enemy adc is basically perfect at adc.

LunarEdge7Nov 29, 20171 votes

Isn't that the same at the other two..? Who needs CC when your Q & Ult is enough to kill as Veigar, or when you're running a lethal build with 200 stacks as Nasus to one-shot whoever that's a tank that just walks near your bush

PhantomPranksterNov 28, 20173 votes

1: ADCs have an entire role that is dedicated to them 2: you generally tend to lose matches if you don't have an ADC who can at least do decent damage 3: ADC mains bitch about characters doing too much damage when they DON'T build resistances. 4: ADC mains generally tend to have a shitty attitude 5 ADC mains mostly blame other people before they blame themselves

xToxicOsirisxNov 29, 20174 votes

Not the adcs fault. That is because people refuse to try anything that isn't meta.
You can also lose a match if the support doesn't peel. Or if the midlaner feeds the assassin. or if the jungler ends up feeding lanes. The team with bad players usually loses. What a surprise.
Adcs bitch about being killed before they can do anything. And adc usually do build resistances. If they don't, they're shit. Stop confusing bad players with adc mains.
People who make generalizations about entire groups probably have a shitty attitude too.
^^

SnowplosionNov 28, 20172 votes

I'm convinced the boards community is mentally deficient. That being said it seems like you can scale more quickly that you used to be able to.

DreadlocksNov 29, 20172 votes

Because they are HIGHLY favored over other classes in the eyes of Riot.

RankOneUgandaNov 29, 20172 votes

because riot revolved the game around the class. Let me put it this way would you rather have a 7/0 top laner. 7/0 mid. or 7/0 adc

exactly. once you siege with the fed adc. global gold will give your behind team mates gold to put them back in the game. most top laners if not all can't siege and fill adc role in a team fight obviously. and mid laners can do better than top but not as much as adcs.

hoyohaiNov 29, 20171 votes

I may be wrong, but don't a lot of top laners carry demolish? I don't play them, but I think demolish works pretty well on them.

RivuoNov 29, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cE16MmkU,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-11-28T23:01:30.118+0000)

Don't just dismiss this as shit posting because there area few claims that need to be addressed. 1. ADC are doing way to much damage. The truth is ADC needs a late game build to do damage. It's different when you can burst someone down with 1.5 items vs an ADC's 2-3 items. 2. ADC just right clicks. This one is a funny claim. There was a story where I was playing vayne and a veigar kept reminding me how bad I was doing. I simply said "if you think it's so easy how about you play her" he said "silly, I don't own vayne". So I said "than don't say you just right click" So if you ask me, ADC don't just right click. I still can't kite for shit when playing one.3. the ADC role snowballs too much. The truth is any role that gets a lead snowballs. If Katarina goes 3/0 in 5-10 minutes, you can expect her to roam constantly. And it's not just Katarina. Any champion with mobility will do that. Fizz, Yasuo, I've seen GP do it. You can't really categorize it into a specific role that snowballs because snowballing is just a condition of the gold you get from kills and CS. I've seen more top laners cs better than ADC.

My only problem with the ADC role is that everyone acts like Tyler1.

The boards have a heavy stereotype to ADC mains. Its quite unforunate but if you say anything defending adcs or discussing any sort of balance you immediately get downvoted.

Same thing happens when you talk about balance with zed.

The boards are generally lower elo so ''discussion'' is whoever gets upvoted the most. I can guarentee most of the people that complain about adcs dont main adc nor ever played it.

ShablagooNov 29, 20172 votes

Because they have no inherent counter other then completely stomp them early game till they do nothing. Because they have consistent dmg that is not dodgable, not countered in any real way, and their is no way to stop one when fed in anyway regardless of what defense you build Vayne . Their crit items are ridiculously cheap for a late game champs. late game equals item 3031 item 3087 for some or first two crit items. They dont do sustain or dps its burst per second, what mages have to do in a specific combo landing all skill shots, adc's require two to three auto's to deal the same dmg, the same goes for assassins sometimes even with db. They are no longer required to really dodge or keep themselves alive due to the amount of survivability supports now give, with ardent being rampant as it was and redemption too. The real skill in adc's was keeping yourself alive while dealing dmg, but with the new support revamp, you dont even have to worry anymore cuz soraka and janna heal you up to full health and block 80% of a combo. All you do is sit and right click. Champions like twitch do literally what assasins do but better sneaking around with his stealth way better then any other assassins because he doesnt have a huge fking question mark or sign saying Im coming for you. Then their is the fact that you have to play a tank or panth to do anything top lane or you generally have no real effect on the game what so ever. And if you want to impact the game guess what GO BOTTOM. Middle is the same thing win your lane, to bad you bot is 0/4 and 0/1 so you automatically lose the game shouldve ganked bot. You are a jgler why even gank another lane but bot they wont do anything anyway. The bot lane in general has to much power over the game ppl ( me included hate it) If I want to win a game I have to leave it to some auto filled support and doublelift fan to win a game which is really stupid. If the enemy adc gets fed you win, if any other lane wins they have to go bot to win or you lose. That is the state of the game rn and ppl are sick of it.

Dark NephthysNov 29, 20172 votes

ADCs can reach that heavy burst with just item 3031 item 3087 even on late game hyper carries and can destroy people early/mid game. With the game being so early game focused, you would think those really strong late game adcs would be terrible early on but they really aren't which is why even now when games usually end like 20-25 mins, late game adcs are still stomping..

You can say what you want about other classes doing a lot of damage, but in most cases those other classes that are complained about are either Melee, or revolve around skill shots, they have to at least throw out a bigger attempt to deal their damage, and could take 2-3 of their abilities to deal the damage that an ADC can do with 1 auto attack.

The only thing that ADCs really lack is utility/cc but since this is the class that gets followed around with a support, they cover that. ADCs even get an easier time reaching 40% cdr than mages thanks to item 3508 which gives up to 30%.

AR URFNov 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dark Nephthys,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cE16MmkU,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2017-11-29T02:44:26.104+0000)

ADCs can reach that heavy burst with just even on late game hyper carries and can destroy people early/mid game. With the game being so early game focused, you would think those really strong late game adcs would be terrible early on but they really aren't which is why even now when games usually end like 20-25 mins, late game adcs are still stomping..

You can say what you want about other classes doing a lot of damage, but in most cases those other classes that are complained about are either Melee, or revolve around skill shots, they have to at least throw out a bigger attempt to deal their damage, and could take 2-3 of their abilities to deal the damage that an ADC can do with 1 auto attack.

The only thing that ADCs really lack is utility/cc but since this is the class that gets followed around with a support, they cover that. ADCs even get an easier time reaching 40% cdr than mages thanks to which gives up to 30%.

The problem with your logic here is that unless you're playing Vayne , the only champs you'll kill is the assassin and mages.

Dark NephthysNov 29, 20171 votes

Yea and wasn't Assassins suppose to counter and beat ADCs anyways? Maybe if anything increase the cost of the crit items (not by much obv) as they are already really low or just reduce the damage a little bit of those items and buff item 3035 (and maybe item 3153 but honestly that could end badly for other classes if Botrk was buffed). That way they'll still be able to deal with tanks but won't instantly delete non-tanks with 2-3 right clicks if the game lasts for 30+ mins.

The problem I (and many others) is that ADCs feel like they reach their end game way to soon. Just IE + any of the Zeal items and they do insane damage, and even do decent damage to tanks even without any tank shredding items.

Though it might just be the outliers that need to be looked at, as not every Crit based ADC is really problematic. People like Varus Jinx Jhin I don't have any problems with and would feel bad if they ended up getting nerfed. (And I know Varus/Jhin can do very well with Lethality build but they also do well with crit).

Bird GirINov 29, 20171 votes

Sorry for the wall of text, but this post is so full of dishonesty that I have to respond.

Everyone is stomping. If you can get two takedowns in one fight as Kat, you'll snowball just as hard (harder, actually). Duo lanes just naturally get more kills when they win all ins because it's more targets. Go roam and gank their bot. Mages are better at roaming by the way. So are supports. ADC's have to stay in lane and wait for someone stupid to die to a gank or feed them a kill.
Melees get loads of free stats and access to the best items in the game. You can't compare a top winrate ADC like MF with some joke like Fiora. Look at Xin. He's carrying just fine and is set for nerfs.
Stop acting like skillshots are the worst thing created since modern art. It does not take a god to land skillshots as bronze players can do it. Sure, they're capable of missing unlike auto attacks, but you get to have longer range, higher CC and utility, higher damage per hit, and higher free base damage in your overall kit with no items at all. Something has to compensate for those advantages, and that compensation is the ability to miss.
The shit about doing less damage with 2-3 abilities versus one ADC auto just isn't true. Maybe if you were talking about tanks, it would be. An ADC with equal gold to a Lux just isn't going to outdamage two of her spells with one auto 90% of the time. Let's not forget about the fact that mages can throw out their entire rotation and then back off before ADCs can auto twice. Work on auto spacing and playing around cooldowns.
You don't get to complain about how strong champions are when backed up by another champion (support). It's a literal 2v1. Come complain when mage and support combos skirmishing vs adc and support combos aren't going to win the majority of the time in the early and mid game (skirmishing, not laning).
Up until recently, AP itemization has always been better. Now, I'd say they're about even. You have access to penetration which is a rare and valuable stat. You have free CDR and health in half of your items. You don't see ADC's getting extremely tanky by simply building their core. People underestimate how tanky mages get and think they're as easy of a target as ADC when they have more HP and CC. ADC's have to build glass cannon. They can't even afford to purchase lifesteal until they buy 3 items plus boots first. ADC's NEED to be greedy and build triple crit items if they want to do any damage at all. That is why they LOSE if they do not when you look at winrates. The only reason their itemization paths are even acceptable now is because of the 8% lifesteal from runes. Zhonya's is still the most ridiculous active in the game. You don't have to wait on multipliers. You simply stack MOAR AP and only fall off in the end game as a mage. Morello is tons more cost effective than essence reaver, starts with more CDR without having to build another item, and is even cheaper. Even ADC CDR is gated by multipliers. There is a reason people hate having to build ER. What's the downside to morello? You have 10% less CDR (that the ADC has to spend 3100 additional gold to acquire), but you're gonna get free random 10% cdr chunks later into your build anyway.
Mages seem to only look at their damage and sulk (even though the damage itself is fine). They're too focused on their damage output and forget about all of the other gifts at their disposal. If a late game mage locks a target down with a stray root or stun while a support or tank is in range to stack CC, it doesn't matter who is hitting the target. It's going to die. ADC's have only damage to contribute, so it makes sense that they have a lot of it. Mages forget about the fact that they have more utility, range, and burst at all stages of the game and the fact that they are harder to kill because of the free health in their build coupled with their range and self peel ability.

Note: I think ADC's and supports are probably on the top of the food chain right now and have been since the beginning of the censer meta. The issue is that people on just the boards have been circle jerking about ADC's being overpowered during the tank meta, the assassin meta, and even the mage support meta. People seem to think that supports can't be overpowered. It's the ADC that is overpowered and the fault of the ADC when supports are strong and taking over games with 6k hp team redemption heals, 4k hp team locket shields, game changing ults and utility, and usage of old censer.

SwiftKitten88Nov 29, 20172 votes

ok let me adress these points for you..

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cE16MmkU,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-11-28T23:01:30.118+0000)

ADC are doing way to much damage. YES they ARE doing to much damage... infact right now EVERY class does FAR to much damage but, adc do the most. ADC are DESIGNED to do CONSISTANT STEADY damage through the entire fight. there are NOT suppose dto BURST down ANYONE. in season three there was no stupid ass keystones that have you absurd burst damage. there was no and combo to give you burst there was no INFERNAL dragon. AND on top of that champions had MORE hp and MR

the adc hate has died down a bit becuase damage is no so ABSURDLY high on all classes than you can actually 1 shot the adc even through all the heals and shielding and item 3812 / item 3046 / item 3109 stuff they get.

ADC just right clicks. this is true... although i dont know why people say this as if its easy. i personally cant adc to save my life. adc rightclick is an auto that with never miss true but o personally find it MUCH easier to land a skillshot than i do to rightclick someone sometimes

I'm not meant for adc, and i agree being rightclicked has no counterplay.. but thats why it does (or well is SUPPOSED to be doing) sustained damage... NOT burst damage.. aka see point 1

My only problem with the ADC role is that everyone acts like Tyler1. this is not true. i will say there is certainly a higher than normal percentage of people who do this in the ADC role than in the other roles. and it is certainly the role most likely to act like a jerk.. but saying they all do is wrong..

i support as my seocndary.. and yeah i get a lot of jerks... and i get adc play decently and i have able to get them an easy 8/0 in lane.. by setting everything up

and suddenly they think they are "gosu" and run off without me and then end the game 9/14, because they are too stupid to get it through their head that i was the one who set up every kill for them

then i get people who i get fed 8/0 where are like "this support is a god" and are like..

the VAST majority of people on my freind lists are ADC's because they all want to duo with me as their support. XD that is also the only reason why i own most if not all adc when i cant play any to save my life

Laura ßNov 29, 20172 votes

because only 1 adc per game is destined to do damage and the other just becomes a walking ward

YaskamasandwichNov 29, 20172 votes

My hatred for them stems from the fact that they became the only late game champions. It has gotten to the point where people forgot, or gave up, on the old good ways. There was no late game class, only late game champions. Sejuani was a late game god even though she was a Vanguard. Zac was an early game monster even though he was a Vanguard. Kog'maw was a late game god even though he was a Marksman. Quinn was and still is an early game monster even though she is a Marksman. Jax and Nasus were late game gods but now they're mid game, or forced to be split pushing gods whom can't really team fight.

Every class has been removed from late game except for Marksmen. Yet Marksmen themselves get access to early and mid game champions. This was not the case. We had creativity and fun with champions. Now it feels like every champion is the same with just different numbers. All thanks to the stupid concept of class power spikes. Which everyone seems enforcing saying "Only Marksmen are late game carries." Which is what helps murder this game, and drives me insane.

AhrisNov 28, 20171 votes

What champ can burst down people with just 1.5 items? Lol

There is def some, but many cant really do it.

DuskDaUmbreonNov 28, 20172 votes

Most non-enchanter mages. Any assassin (AD assassins start doing it at .5 items!). A lot of juggernauts. I think all the divers can, too.

Depending on how much you want to stretch the definition of burst, you could include tanks, as, depending on the tank's damages, and the items, and the target, they could kill someone in a single CC chain.

FooDangNov 28, 20175 votes

{quoted}

What champ can burst down people with just 1.5 items? Lol

There is def some...

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

AR URFNov 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What champ can burst down people with just 1.5 items? Lol

There is def some, but many cant really do it.

Akali with item 3146 Khazix with item 3147 and item 3134 Katarina with Lux with item 3165 and item 1058 . You get the idea.

Subject 5Nov 29, 20171 votes

Because:

Zed Had to use his clone to get in auto attack range to auto attack, then use his passive for the extra damage - combo with his clones and himself for a shuriken combo and then make sure to get the slow off on his E while at the same time keeping track of his energy spent and how much energy will come up for his last ability.

Vayne Pressed R+Q and just 100-0'd you with literally no effort other than "I have my items now"

JackMcSnipeyzNov 29, 20172 votes

Bzzzz try again, zed used shadow to get in range, ult to blink, duakblade + shurikan from point blank - and then he just teleports out of there.

Wow, what a hard play with your 2 gap closers (that double act as an escape) and tons of damage kit. Golly gee, poor zed players get so exahusted from their high skill kit.

Hell, Assassins dont even need ult to 1v1 a squishy.

Subject 5Nov 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Bzzzz try again, zed used shadow to get in range, ult to blink, duakblade + shurikan from point blank - and then he just teleports out of there.

Wow, what a hard play with your 2 gap closers (that double act as an escape) and tons of damage kit. Golly gee, poor zed players get so exahusted from their high skill kit.

Hell, Assassins dont even need ult to 1v1 a squishy.

http://eune.op.gg/summoner/userName=JackMcSnipeyz

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

JackMcSnipeyzNov 29, 20171 votes

Your point? Except for the fact i play ADC?

Subject 5Nov 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Your point? Except for the fact i play ADC?

You don't seem to have any experience with Zed and yet cast out a strong handed 'fact' on what you think it's like to play Zed. You seem to literally only play building-block-champions that right-click. [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

JackMcSnipeyzNov 29, 20171 votes

I've seen enough zeds do the same tricks and bells, far too often and far too many times to make me believe it's high skill floor champ, data also supports this with his high pickrate and decent winrate for such a "complex" champ. Isnt it also kinda hypocritical of you to call me out for trash talking zed while you trash talk an entire class you barely play yourself?

And dont get me wrong it's very flattering you completely ignore my point and try finding "dirt" on me, but you didnt bring any actual counter arguement other than "lol u just right click xd".

But please, keep pointing out how me playing Graves ADC is simple ez pz right clicking

Subject 5Nov 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I've seen enough zeds do the same tricks and bells, far too often and far too many times to make me believe it's high skill floor champ, data also supports this with his high pickrate and decent winrate for such a "complex" champ. Isnt it also kinda hypocritical of you to call me out for trash talking zed while you trash talk an entire class you barely play yourself?

And dont get me wrong it's very flattering you completely ignore my point and try finding "dirt" on me, but you didnt bring any actual counter arguement other than "lol u just right click xd".

But please, keep pointing out how me playing Graves ADC is simple ez pz right clicking

Actually I play a ton of Kayn and I've recently started playing a lot of Eve, I also played Talon but I don't play Zed myself; I do play assassins actually, just usually reserved for casual. I don't blame you for not knowing this though considering the new 'privacy rules' that Riot has implemented.

Anyways - I'm assuming that your argument to Graves being more of a right clicker is that his Q interacts with terrain, lol. If mages did the same thing, people would bitch and moan about how somebody just 1-2 shot somebody clean off of the map . . .

Syndra Oh wait, that already happens.

Why exactly do you think that Graves is of equal caliber to Zed in terms of complexity / skill?

JackMcSnipeyzNov 29, 20171 votes

I'd say getting in range to your target as Graves, hitting a full combo (deleyed 2nd Q) and getting out alive takes just as much skill as clicking R on your target to blink to them, doing a quick instant combo and blinking out as zed. Just by how you try to downplay marksman by saying "lol rite clickers" you show how little you understand about the class/game as a whole.

I get you think assassins are super complex and hard champs, but they really arent, if they were you wouldnt see mastery 7 assassins running around in every game doing the same cookie cutter combo 1 shotting every squishy.

Again, just so you wont get the wrong impression, im not trying to make adc sound complex, im trying to get you off your high horse, assassins arent complex, when you have no mana cost, 2 gap closers and AoE skills that are either instant or very fast - you arent risking a lot for those "outplayz".

Subject 5Nov 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'd say getting in range to your target as Graves, hitting a full combo (deleyed 2nd Q) and getting out alive takes just as much skill as clicking R on your target to blink to them, doing a quick instant combo and blinking out as zed. Just by how you try to downplay marksman by saying "lol rite clickers" you show how little you understand about the class/game as a whole.

I get you think assassins are super complex and hard champs, but they really arent, if they were you wouldnt see mastery 7 assassins running around in every game doing the same cookie cutter combo 1 shotting every squishy.

Again, just so you wont get the wrong impression, im not trying to make adc sound complex, im trying to get you off your high horse, assassins arent complex, when you have no mana cost, 2 gap closers and AoE skills that are either instant or very fast - you arent risking a lot for those "outplayz".

You sure are making it sound complex for Graves having to dash into somebodies face to auto attack them, gee, how difficult for him to wait in a brush and dash out to button mash his Q/R.

Assassins are more difficult than ADC's and far more complex because they rely on abilities to do their damage and they can't just idle in an effort to kill somebody, alright Ad hominem? Give me an example, unless if you think dashing in front of people is a very difficult task, as for why playing an ADC like Graves is more difficult than playing Zed. If you think that Zed has legit 1 combo to perform then maybe try picking up Zed and playing him for 10 games, see what's up. If he's not difficult, you should be able to just pick him up in ranked pretty easy.

JackMcSnipeyzNov 29, 20171 votes

So dashin into someone's range as an adc is not complex, but teleporting into people's range IS because you are an assassin. yea okay, your bias is showing, read the last statement again, im not calling any of these champs complex, im calling your precious assassins simple, because they are. I dont play zed because i dont enjoy his playstyle, when i pick assassins i like like khazix i have 0 problems assassinating targets as soon as i get duskblade, wow it's so complex to have a high range gap closer that resets on kill and burst my target in 1.5 seconds from point blank range.

You seem to disregard my statement anyway, as you clearly think im saying Graves > Zed in complexity when i stated over and over again they are both simple champs, and very few champs in this game are actually difficult to play.

But this is a hopeless arguement, again and again you resort to the same "lol you just afk right click" statement which is not only not true, but also shows again, your lack of understanding of the class, but i guess you are too smart for that as an assassin player, lol.

Counter question for you, why do you think zed is a more complex champ than Graves?

Subject 5Nov 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

So dashin into someone's range as an adc is not complex, but teleporting into people's range IS because you are an assassin. yea okay, your bias is showing, read the last statement again, im not calling any of these champs complex, im calling your precious assassins simple, because they are. I dont play zed because i dont enjoy his playstyle, when i pick assassins i like like khazix i have 0 problems assassinating targets as soon as i get duskblade, wow it's so complex to have a high range gap closer that resets on kill and burst my target in 1.5 seconds from point blank range.

You seem to disregard my statement anyway, as you clearly think im saying Graves > Zed in complexity when i stated over and over again they are both simple champs, and very few champs in this game are actually difficult to play.

But this is a hopeless arguement, again and again you resort to the same "lol you just afk right click" statement which is not only not true, but also shows again, your lack of understanding of the class, but i guess you are too smart for that as an assassin player, lol.

Counter question for you, why do you think zed is a more complex champ than Graves?

Why do I think Zed is complex without narrowing his kit down like you did:

In order to kill a carry mid game or god forbid late game, you need to land every single thing in your kit. That includes your shurikens, and the clones shurikens and the extra shurikens from the extra clone - you need to hit them at a certain timed intervals which is your ultimate ability and you also need to do the same with your E. You need to remember that using your E gives a slow with both clones, which can be used on an entire team if you land a combo in the right spot. Unlike mana, you need to keep constant track of your resources - if you run oom and try to perform a combo then you're going to die, because you're left standing there doing nothing.

There aren't just 1 'combos' to perform on Zed, there are a ton that I've seen that are used for each and every different situation. Zed is a pretty toxic champion but I know that his skill ceiling is way higher than any ADC that I'm aware of.

There, now it's your turn - describe why Graves is difficult to play in comparison, don't make an argument that can be used for EVERY marksman in the game that builds no defensive items.

JackMcSnipeyzNov 29, 20171 votes

Zed? needs to land every skillshots to assassinate a target? common, you cant be serious, how delusional are you? Zed literally 1 shots every squishy 1 on 1, the fact that you think having an AoE team wide slow on an assassin makes him high skill cap and complex just shows it. but i can play ball.

In order to be kill a target from mid to late game you need to get in range with a pretty short dash, which is your only mobility, it is also the only way for you to increase your DPS since besides mana and CD, Graves also has to keep count on his unqiue bullet and reload mechanic, that if you get caught getting into someone's face with 1 bullet, you reduce your Damage output which against any high damage target means you're dead. Besides that, his Q needs to hit 2 parts, the 2nd which has a 1.5 seconds deley, or you have to angle it into a wall, you need to E to reset your auto attack and reload an extra bullet, and you need to use your ult just in the right time to execute your target because it also knocks you back, which coupled with Graves close range AA means if you use it too early, your target is gonna escape. In teamfights you need to hit the enemy marksman with your smoke screen which shuts him down for a second until he gets out, and you need to angle your Q+R to hit as many people as possible so you'll be the most effective, which isnt as easy when every assassin/tank is trying to either zone you out or assassinate you with super high mobility. In lane you cant actually spam your skills because you have actual mana which does not regenrate quickly after every combo he does, if he spams his abilities in lane and doesnt make them count, he wont get that mana back for a long time. All that and i didnt even mention the fact that his auto attacks can be blocked by buildings, minions and other champions who will often get in your face which is a new dynamic way to angle yourself, which often also makes you get out of position which no other champ has to deal with.

See? i can make him sound super complex aswell, but please, elaborate how Zed 2 dashes that double as an escape and 2 duskblade procs and hard hitting AA makes him a super high IQ champ. Having many options to fit every situation =/= high skill cap, a yasuo dashing through a minion wave to hit you and dashing all the way back looks flashy and cool, but in reality it's just a never ending dash.

Subject 5Nov 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Zed? needs to land every skillshots to assassinate a target? common, you cant be serious, how delusional are you? Zed literally 1 shots every squishy 1 on 1, the fact that you think having an AoE team wide slow on an assassin makes him high skill cap and complex just shows it. but i can play ball.

In order to be kill a target from mid to late game you need to get in range with a pretty short dash, which is your only mobility, it is also the only way for you to increase your DPS since besides mana and CD, Graves also has to keep count on his unqiue bullet and reload mechanic, that if you get caught getting into someone's face with 1 bullet, you reduce your Damage output which against any high damage target means you're dead. Besides that, his Q needs to hit 2 parts, the 2nd which has a 1.5 seconds deley, or you have to angle it into a wall, you need to E to reset your auto attack and reload an extra bullet, and you need to use your ult just in the right time to execute your target because it also knocks you back, which coupled with Graves close range AA means if you use it too early, your target is gonna escape. In teamfights you need to hit the enemy marksman with your smoke screen which shuts him down for a second until he gets out, and you need to angle your Q+R to hit as many people as possible so you'll be the most effective, which isnt as easy when every assassin/tank is trying to either zone you out or assassinate you with super high mobility. In lane you cant actually spam your skills because you have actual mana which does not regenrate quickly after every combo he does, if he spams his abilities in lane and doesnt make them count, he wont get that mana back for a long time. All that and i didnt even mention the fact that his auto attacks can be blocked by buildings, minions and other champions who will often get in your face which is a new dynamic way to angle yourself, which often also makes you get out of position which no other champ has to deal with.

See? i can make him sound super complex aswell, but please, elaborate how Zed 2 dashes that double as an escape and 2 duskblade procs and hard hitting AA makes him a super high IQ champ. Having many options to fit every situation =/= high skill cap, a yasuo dashing through a minion wave to hit you and dashing all the way back looks flashy and cool, but in reality it's just a never ending dash.

A lot of what you just said can be negated by the fact that he starts off with a blue and he's a jungler so he doesn't lane, I'm not sure why you're acting like he's a laner. Hitting smoke screen is close to impossible, if anything you'll just be using it to zone which you didn't mention for some reasoning.

First of all though, in lane? In lane my dude? You're a platinum player, who the fuck plays Graves in LANE LOL. You don't even play Graves in lane.

Orianna Is this champion complex to you? Because Orianna is revered as a very complex champion and she is very similar to Zed with using separate entities to do damage.

JackMcSnipeyzNov 29, 20171 votes

as i said I play him in lane as an ADC, i know jungle Graves was easy back in the day when he was still OP, but i never play him jungle. His smoke screen is from from close to impossible to hit, but i guess it is hard for you, funny considering you play such high skill cap champs as assassins yet you think grave's W is hard to hit?

Also, zed's whole "get caught without energy" you said can also be negeted by waiting a few seconds and going in with full energy, which isnt hard or too time consuming as managing mana

Subject 5Nov 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

as i said I play him in lane as an ADC, i know jungle Graves was easy back in the day when he was still OP, but i never play him jungle. His smoke screen is from from close to impossible to hit, but i guess it is hard for you, funny considering you play such high skill cap champs as assassins yet you think grave's W is hard to hit?

Also, zed's whole "get caught without energy" you said can also be negeted by waiting a few seconds and going in with full energy, which isnt hard or too time consuming as managing mana

Match history doesn't seem to back you up on that. It takes about 10 seconds to get back to full energy, maybe try playing some energy champions to get to know about this kind of information. Though even waiting a few seconds means that you missed the kill, and you failed.

Would you like to know how energy regeneration works in this game?

LunarEdge7Nov 29, 20171 votes

The new runes now make them easier to hate on, cuz' dayum these offensive early stats are making them roll like pancakes

Athenes LuluNov 29, 20171 votes

Serious response time time, I promise.

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cE16MmkU,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-11-28T23:01:30.118+0000)

Don't just dismiss this as shit posting because there area few claims that need to be addressed. 1. ADC are doing way to much damage. The truth is ADC needs a late game build to do damage. It's different when you can burst someone down with 1.5 items vs an ADC's 2-3 items.

The thing is people are complaining on how they reached their lategame "too soon". You're not wrong, but that's what a lot of Boards think.

ADC just right clicks. This one is a funny claim. There was a story where I was playing vayne and a veigar kept reminding me how bad I was doing. I simply said "if you think it's so easy how about you play her" he said "silly, I don't own vayne". So I said "than don't say you just right click" So if you ask me, ADC don't just right click. I still can't kite for shit when playing one

It's the equivalent of people saying things like Riven, Yasuo, and AD assassins "take no skill" and are "faceroll champs". Saying ADCs are "right clickers" is still true to some extent since right clicking IS how they dish out most of their damage, though.

the ADC role snowballs too much. The truth is any role that gets a lead snowballs. If Katarina goes 3/0 in 5-10 minutes, you can expect her to roam constantly. And it's not just Katarina. Any champion with mobility will do that. Fizz, Yasuo, I've seen GP do it. You can't really categorize it into a specific role that snowballs because snowballing is just a condition of the gold you get from kills and CS. I've seen more top laners cs better than ADC.

Surprisingly enough, it's something that people on Boards don't always seem to recognize, despite that's the truth.

If anything, the influx of tank and mage "supports" encouraged the snowballing, because they enforced kill lanes. Which also means that people die more, ADCs get to snowball harder. Since there's double the members in a lane, the snowballing effect doubles. It's just that simple.

If we were to throw ADCs into solo lanes, they would snowball as fast as almost everyone else. But how to shut down is a different story since they are much more relevant once they get a set number of items, and people only saw how "hard" it is to do so.

My only problem with the ADC role is that everyone acts like Tyler1.

Or we call them "bad players". I don't think this is "ADC exclusive" since this kind of attitude actually applies to anyone, and any role, including support. What I CAN tell you, though, is they tend to act like that more when they're actually smurfing, or are actually your typical bad player in soloQ.

I've been maining support since season 3 and I hardly ever get any good/decent ADC players to pull that attitude. It's almost always the bad players that have never won a single game in their life as an ADC.

######I can't wait to get downvoted for saying the truth!