Seeing Fizz in his current state actually annoys the living shit out of me.

ABlueQuaker··24 votes·2,752 views

EDIT: I'll actually preface this by pointing out that I actually mained AP Bruiser Jungle Fizz for most of last season. Not AP Assassin. Not TriForce. Not Tank. Not Off-Tank. AP Bruiser. It did what I wanted and fulfilled the gameplay fantasy I desired.

It's not that he's OP. It's not that he's useless. It's that he has an incredibly annoying early game and an almost non-existent late game.

Fizz was actually fine before Riot decided to rework him. His last lot of changes had brought him in line and he had reasonable scaling. He could be punished in lane, he could win certain matchups, and he was fairly relevant throughout the game. More importantly, regardless of whether he was AD, AP or Hybrid, he dealt damage fairly proportionate to the damage items he built.

His W and Q still worked relatively well with TriForce/IBG builds, he could do a bunch of off-meta builds (Gunblade Rylai's was a favourite of mine) and the conventional Lichbane Glass Cannon build was actually reasonably healthy.

You know, this isn't Season 2/3 anymore. There are plenty of champions capable of peeling him off carries, and enough carries with reliable mobility to counteract Fizz's.

Fizz didn't need the huge change he got. He would be right around Ekko's level of power right now if Riot at least play-tested his Old Kit with some of the reworked items for a while.

Riot's sitting there messing around with his R when that's not even the god damn issue. His W is stupid. It's a weird last-hitting tool, but also his primary damage outside of R, but it's so delayed that it becomes impractical when you look at the likes of Zed/Talon/Ekko et al.

Please consider pulling a Kog'maw and revert otherwise you'll still be tinkering with stuff (that didn't need changing) 8 months from now.

I'm not saying Fizz is OP or weak. I'm saying his rework is unhealthy and unrewarding. You could put in the same amount of effort on similar champs with a much higher rate of success.

58 Comments

Jorencice4 votes

Wait since when has fizz had a shit t late game?

Fizz currently holds my fastest death ever.

With a 100-0 that took 0.07 seconds.

MissingKayo2 votes

Then you did something horribly wrong. You deserved that.

Cosmic Warper3 votes

{quoted}

Wait since when has fizz had a shit t late game?

Fizz currently holds my fastest death ever.

With a 100-0 that took 0.07 seconds.

His lategame is complete shit lol. You can bodyblock his ult for an ally, his W requires 2s of waiting to even get the empowered damage off, and his E cd is higher due to the nerfs before the assassin rework. His kit is even more telegraphed and in teamfights is easy as fuck to play against.

Jorencice2 votes

As I said "Since when"

Didn't know the assassin rework destroyed him so hard.

The 0.07 death was against a full build pure AP fizz a couple of seasons ago.

Which still holds the fastest death ever.

So none of my statements were false.

Stop fanboying so hard. I'm sorry your angry about your fizz.

Cosmic Warper1 votes

{quoted}

As I said "Since when"

Didn't know the assassin rework destroyed him so hard.

The 0.07 death was against a full build pure AP fizz a couple of seasons ago.

Which still holds the fastest death ever.

So none of my statements were false.

Stop fanboying so hard. I'm sorry your angry about your fizz.

Fanboying at what lmao. Your statements aren't pertinent to fizz's current state. Therefore, they aren't relevant to the thread at all...

o Eon O1 votes

0.07? Literally not even possible with his kit now. His Q damage is awful, his ult damage is decent if it's a max range fish but his E takes awhile to go through. 0.07 is highly unlikely.

Penns2 votes

You mean minus the 2 seconds he waited after hitting his skillshot ult right?

Åeolus2 votes

Land your r level 6 and you get a kill. Thats so underpowered!!!

YJRBqwXJcS13 votes

{quoted}

Land your r level 6 and you get a kill. Thats so underpowered!!!

leave it to a fucking ahri main to talk shit. Lets see you try maining a character that actually has weaknesses

Åeolus2 votes

Lol its true go watch videos on youtube. Link me a video where fizz lands r and can't kill someone without them blowing flash or using an escape. And Ahri has a ton of weaknesses lmao.

YJRBqwXJcS4 votes

{quoted}

Lol its true go watch videos on youtube. Link me a video where fizz lands r and can't kill someone without them blowing flash or using an escape. And Ahri has a ton of weaknesses lmao.

it doesn't even matter what is true or not about what you said because nobody was talking about whether or not fizz was underpowered or overpowered he was stating that fizz changes are not doing anything to actually help with the problems from both sides of people who have to play with fizz (against or with)

I'm also not going to sit here and defend fizz, i gave up playing him 3-4 seasons ago because people only bitch about him.

also dont sit here and act like ahri has weaknesses the only problem she has is damage that doesn't instantly kill people. everything else about her is fine

Cosmic Warper3 votes

{quoted}

Lol its true go watch videos on youtube. Link me a video where fizz lands r and can't kill someone without them blowing flash or using an escape. And Ahri has a ton of weaknesses lmao.

As if his ult is easy to land You act like it's point and click and not one of the most telegraphed ults in the game

GayFluffyUnicorn3 votes

What. In the current iteration you must be seriously braindead to NOT hit the fish. It's basically point and click due to the current hitbox.

Cosmic Warper3 votes

{quoted}

What. In the current iteration you must be seriously braindead to NOT hit the fish. It's basically point and click due to the current hitbox.

?? The hitbox is much less forgiving than it used to be. The latch hitbox is not the whole hitbox of the ult anymore, it's just the radius of the fish.

EDIT: People either don't read patchnotes or they're just bad at dodging telegraphed skillshots. Typical lol boards.

My Waifu Vanilla3 votes

It also doesn't latch afterwards anymore either. It just sits there on the ground.

Votable Jester1 votes

Yeah I've found his ult hitbox much more reasonable. The way it was before was a bit bs though. It really was near undodgeable.

Bisaknosp1 votes

{quoted}

Lol its true go watch videos on youtube. Link me a video where fizz lands r and can't kill someone without them blowing flash or using an escape. And Ahri has a ton of weaknesses lmao.

dont bother, they wont listen dear

Troll for Trump2 votes

Why so pretentious

Hunted90002 votes

Fizz has no unhealthy problems and actually waiting to W when the debuff is fully charged is very rewarding. The W damage when it is fully proced is what gets the kill the majority of the time and there are plenty of ways to get it.

I can either engage with q,e, then by that time the w will be charged and boom mega damage.

Or I can ult, e, then w and use my q to finish them off if they even manage to live after that.

Not to mention how freaking amazing it feels to get a full range ult off in a teamfight and get 3 people in one shark. I have no idea where you are getting this ¨unrewarding¨ feel from when it is the exact opposite when you are not just facerolling.

P.S: If anything I am surprised people are not asking for fizz nerfs, in lcs a guy played freaking ad fizz when fizz benefits limitless times more from building ap, it just shows how dumb his damage is right now.

Penns5 votes

Its not really rewarding enough when ap is so low now that Fizz has like less ap than an equally fed ad assassin has ad lol. And youre never gonna hit more than 1 champ with ult unless they get wombo combod.

Hunted90001 votes

Uh... do you build ap items on fizz? Because getting 300 ap is a thing with lich bane, zhonyas, and deathcap

Penns2 votes

item 3100 item 3157 item 3135 or item 3001 or item 3152 is ~250 AP with runes and masteries and costs around 8800 gold.

Meanwhile item 3142 item 3147 item 3814 or item 3156 is way more AD with base AD and only costs like 300 gold more.

Rabadons is the only exception but that item gives nothing else and is way too expensive lol

Hunted90001 votes

Well then they have more ad, it doesnt suddenly mean that fizz doesnt do damage. I can easily get solo kills playing jg fizz where I actually have one of the smallest amounts of ap from an item.

Penns3 votes

No but it means the 100% AP scaling on his situational empowered W, which sounds like much, is worth less than a normal auto attack from an AD assassin.

Plus the 75 - 255 base damage that makes it a bit stronger of course but... its supposed to be a rewarding spell, not a "hey dude.. if you played Talon you could almost do the same damage with every auto + you would actually get items with flat pen unlike AP assassins.. just saying" xd

Hunted90001 votes

Lich bane is a core item on fizz for a reason and riot cant give his auto 120% damage when he ALREADY 100-0s targets, fizz is different from every other champion thats why you cant even compare him as an ap fiora is the closest thing you can get and even thats super far.

Aaravos4 votes

Which ad assasin can deal like 1200 dmg with an aa? I'm not saying Fizz is in a perfect spot, and you are right about the lack of flat magic pen items, but try to be a bit reasonable please. If Fizz empwered w wouldn't worth more than an aa from Talon he would be trash, what isn't the case right now.

Penns3 votes

Which Fizz can deal 1200 dmg with empowered W tho? Because mid-late game with 3 core items and boots its gonna do like 400 damage to someone that has no MR item at all.

Aaravos2 votes

We are talking about late game right? Full build you have 600 ap and lich bane of course. 600+255 + around 400 from lich. This damage is around 1200. So potentially it can deal such damage. Of course mr will gonna reduce it, but armor will also reduce the damage from ad assasins. So your argumeni is invalid that Fizz's w doesn't worth more than an aa from Talon. That's what i wanted to point out.

Penns1 votes

Lich Bane is an item so it doesnt really count towards his kit. And no we arent talking about late game, I listed 3-4 items, not 6. Of course late game if you have Rabadon its gonna do more, but not mid game with 1-4 items where most games are decided.

Cosmic Warper1 votes

{quoted}

Which ad assasin can deal like 1200 dmg with an aa? I'm not saying Fizz is in a perfect spot, and you are right about the lack of flat magic pen items, but try to be a bit reasonable please. If Fizz empwered w wouldn't worth more than an aa from Talon he would be trash, what isn't the case right now.

Your point makes no sense. Fizz can't deal 1200 damage with empowered W. it will NEVER happen.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

item 3100 item 3157 item 3135 or item 3001 or item 3152 is ~250 AP with runes and masteries and costs around 8800 gold.

Meanwhile item 3142 item 3147 item 3814 or item 3156 is way more AD with base AD and only costs like 300 gold more.

Rabadons is the only exception but that item gives nothing else and is way too expensive lol

Perhaps because the AP build gives an extra 50% AP +75% base AD scaling every 1.5 seconds, some mana, armor, Stasis, 40% CDR, 10% magic damage boost, good MR, health, and %pen, literally everything a mage could ever want?

Meanwhile the AD build only gives 20% movespeed,10-20% CDR, AD, flat pen, some occasional small amount of true damage, small amount of MR, and a spellshield or a AP shield?

Things AP has which AD doesnt: Health, armor, Stasis, 30-20% more CDR, %pen which pens as much if not more MR than Lethality once the target gets over 100 MR, extra 50% AP scaling, mana, and 10% damage amp.

Things AD build has which AP doesnt: Movespeed, spellshield/AP shield, 20 out of combat ms, small amount of true damage.

Penns2 votes

So... pretty much equal if not AD favored? Hexdrinker/Maw is incredibly broken and basically makes you immune to all ins without giving up much damage yourself, the 3 items give you 45 lethality, more than 60 with runes and masteries, 60 move speed out of combat, a ward sweep with no extremely high cooldown which you forgot, and much more.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

So... pretty much equal if not AD favored? Hexdrinker/Maw is incredibly broken and basically makes you immune to all ins without giving up much damage yourself, the 3 items give you 45 lethality, more than 60 with runes and masteries, 60 move speed out of combat, a ward sweep with no extremely high cooldown which you forgot, and much more.

sigh

Penns2 votes

Aight I give up that argument was too good kappa123

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Aight I give up that argument was too good kappa123

As you barely even argued against me, and failed to be right factually (out of combat MS doesn't stack, it's only 20)...

I didn't feel you deserved an argument.

Penns2 votes

Its not a named passive so it should stack, so... xd

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Its not a named passive so it should stack, so...? xd

Thought it didnt?

Penns1 votes

Its not named like "Unique passive - Spellblade" from Sheen items, its just "Unique passive" so it stacks.

Cosmic Warper3 votes

{quoted}

Uh... do you build ap items on fizz? Because getting 300 ap is a thing with lich bane, zhonyas, and deathcap

You need 40% cdr on fizz to function. without it you're a glass cannon. You kill someone, and then you get blown up because your E cd is very high without cdr and it's required to use to get in range. You can't save E for defensive use anymore because you have to land a longer range shark to do damage

Hunted90001 votes

You obviously don't know how to play fizz I think you should look up some videos where people carry with reworked fizz, an lcs player carrying with AD FIZZ should be apparent enough to show you where fizz is at in terms of power when fizz benefits way more from ap items.

MissingKayo3 votes

Fizz is garbage, what are you even talking about?

rtbf761092712 votes

I used to main fizz before his rework and was also super unhappy with what they did. They not only made him MORE unhealthy, they made people hate him more too

They deleted his potential assassination combos by forcing him to hit a max range ult. There is no other order you can attack since you must gap close after using r, and you want the w passive to be ready to pop when you get on them

His entire kit is currently "did you hit r"

And since the size/latch changes made it look like it wasnt going to hit and then did, everyone hated him even more

Hunted90001 votes

To be fair his ult is on such a low cd that waiting for your R to assassinate a target isn't asking too much.

rtbf761092711 votes

It made every melee matchup mid go from fine and skill based to completely unplayable. Plus it make you ask the question, why arent i playing a melee mid which can do well with just their basic abilities? Zed kat yasuo ekko

It is not realistically possible to hit a kat, zed, ekko or yasuo with your fish at max range if they just have vision of you while laning there.

Which means they jump on you melee range, you either weak ult or smack them to start w timer, they deal damage for 1.5 seconds and then escape before you can w active.

You lose all trades against them if they just dont let you max range ult or pop w. Which isnt hard to do with the mobility those champions have. Fizz has mobility but has to use e during trade and wont have it up again. So why ever play fizz. Just play one of those, who function without ult, but dont auto lose against other high mobility champions

RexSaur2 votes

They should the revert the rework and revert the E nerf he got few years ago.

Divewing1 votes

Fizz will never be balanced while his W exists. It's a dps ability on an assassin, forcing so much - too much - of his power to be dumped into his E. He needs another damage-spell so he can have his power budget more evenly distributed.

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