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Champs that have no costs they should have BIG CDs

Phuc Dat Bich··4 votes·1,160 views

That was the mentality back in the days.....

Now what the heck is going on?

You have zed/Gnar/Kat/Nidalee(Cougar form)/Yasuo/etc

I mean check the old champs who was having no cost (garen/renekton/etc) this champ have massive CDs because according to riot back then "they have no cost so they need to be gutted from CD in order to not spam their abilities)

And now we have the zed and kat who spam every second their abilities and it cost nothing

What the counter play herE? i mean if you play lets say against pantheon and he spam his Q if you start cloth armor 5 pots you would survive the lane because he would run out of mana

Now if you play against gnar and he spam his Q even if you start cloth armor 5 you simple cant sustain because his harass mean nothing its free

Imagine playing malphite and his Q to be free...that exactly what gnar and kat is atm

Champs who have no costs need to have 10-11++ CD in order for you to have a window to regen some life back and actually force this champs to buy CDR and not str8 tankiness or damage...

If you play Renekton or garen and you buy no CDR you would need to wait 13 seconds before you use E and 8 seconds For Q

if you play kat you would need to wait 3 seconds before you use Q...

do you see the difference?

Edit : i remove Aatrox because that guy have hp cost

42 Comments

Eedat5 votes

I mean check the old champs who was having no cost (garen/renekton/aatrox/etc)

Aatrox pays for his abilities with HP. That's like saying Vlad and Mundo have no ability costs

Also, Zed has energy costs as well. He cant just spam all of his abilities when they come off CD

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox pays for his abilities with HP. That's like saying Vlad and Mundo have no ability costs

oops lol i forget that aatrox use his HP for cost...but even him that he actually use some cost he still have bigger CDs...than kat who have no costs

Riot balance...

GloriousKaiser2 votes

Those costs were relevant enough to prevent spamming and promote wise ability usage,

Mundo WILL lose a lot of HP if he keeps missing cleavers (fortunately the minions give him the HP refund). Vlad WILL be weak if he keeps spamming his E to maximize the damage potential. Aatrox WILL run out of HP if he doesn't try to hit some minions to regen.

They actually have a purpose to them. Unlike Muh resourcesless muh can't use Manamune, muh strategic item usage.

Oh yeah? Like how Riven really just needs to build item 3072 item 3071 item 3035 item 3074 to be strong?

#Item Diversity #Meaningful Choices

What I'm saying is, HP as a resource is actually weak compared to true resource less champions.

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox pays for his abilities with HP. That's like saying Vlad and Mundo have no ability costs

Also, Zed has energy costs as well. He cant just spam all of his abilities when they come off CD

his Energy cost are way too low if you want to talk about real energy costs check SHEN then you talk about energy costs..

Zed is pretty much no cost champion

Have you ever see a zed saying "dammit i couldnt use an ability i run out of energy"? no

They ulti they use shadow the whole burst and they still have energy...

Eedat3 votes

LOL what? Have you ever played Zed?

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

{quoted}

LOL what? Have you ever played Zed?

yeah..and i never run out of energy

Eedat3 votes

Ok I'm not even going to bother arguing with you. You can't spam all of his abilities all the time. If you say that you can then you're just lying because you're stubborn

GloriousKaiser1 votes

Uh well you can definitely spam them more than the AP mages do, that's for sure, and if they don't retaliate for the sake of saving spells for wave-clear under tower? They'll be forced back. If they do try to fight, Zed will out sustain them because Mana Regen.

OperationDEEZ11 votes

Umm. Yes, actually, you can.

GloriousKaiser1 votes

Yes, his combo doesn't completely deplete his Energy bar compared to Shen.

At level 1 the WQE combo costs, 165. Plenty to go off of.

Phuc Dat Bich2 votes

{quoted}

Yes, his combo doesn't completely deplete his Energy bar compared to Shen.

if shen use E he is done

Zed can use all his abilities and he still have energy....

And people here try to tell me that zed have "costs"

dunder kill1 votes

They do have costs. You cant just spam them every time they come off CD

GloriousKaiser2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Müerte Vs Ámor,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c9e2ei3X,comment-id=00020001000000010000,timestamp=2015-03-14T03:03:24.571+0000)

if shen misses E he is done

Zed can use all his abilities and he still have energy....

And people here try to tell me that zed have "costs"

FTFY

If Shen hits it, he will gain at least 40 Energy back. See, this actually makes you require to think about shadow dashing. Also his passive gives energy back.

But I digress/agree, Zed doesn't truly have meaningful costs like Shen does. But that may be because Shen even though he's weak, will still turn fights around with one well placed Taunt.

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

{quoted}

FTFY

If Shen hits it, he will gain at least 40 Energy back. See, this actually makes you require to think about shadow dashing. Also his passive gives energy back.

But I digress/agree, Zed doesn't truly have meaningful costs like Shen does. But that may be because Shen even though he's weak, will still turn fights around with one well placed Taunt.

shen going in and taunt the ADC (somehow he go through everyone and CC and catch the adc when the adcs now have 10000 escapes but anyway lets say he did it) the support can use mikaels and remove the taunt....simple as that...

now we have zed..zed press R goes in kill the ADC even if the support use Mikaels from the burst damage only that zed would do from his Q-E-AA-BTRK it would be enough to force ADC out of the figth but to not die because support use mikaels (i think mikaels remove zed ulti)

So who make make the fight better ?

i give you a hint zed make the figth 5vs4

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

I personally don't think Vlad counts. Vladimir +item 3152

Eedat2 votes

Having to build spell vamp just so your abilities don't kill you definitely counts. His pool costs 20% of his HP

CKirk2 votes

Just pointing something out, Kat (9/19/2009) was released before Garen (4/27/2010)

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

{quoted}

Just pointing something out, Kat (9/19/2009) was released before Garen (4/27/2010)

you are not very smart huh? kat back then was having different CD go check them kat got a rework...and then some nerfs and then some str8 up buffs on her CD and damage

....check wiki before you reply..

CKirk1 votes

Nah, it's just that I wasn't playing League back before the rework

Rivvy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Müerte Vs Ámor,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c9e2ei3X,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-03-14T02:49:18.879+0000)

you are not very smart huh? kat back then was having different CD go check them kat got a rework...and then some nerfs and then some str8 up buffs on her CD and damage

....check wiki before you reply..

Says the guy that doesn't know Zed's resource bar.

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

{quoted}

Says the guy that doesn't know Zed's resource bar.

if you werent blind and a sheep you would already have read the replies about zed...but then again you are silver so..

Rivvy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Müerte Vs Ámor,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c9e2ei3X,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2015-03-14T03:06:51.315+0000)

if you werent blind and a sheep you would already have read the replies about zed...but then again you are silver so..

If you weren't from EUNE I would take you seriously, but you are... so...

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

{quoted}

If you weren't from EUNE I would take you seriously, but you are... so...

i was N.A before you even knew what league was...

But i forced to play on E.UNE in season 4 because 280 ping

But even in S2-3-4 with 200-240-280 ping i was still plat/diamond/diamond

So you were saying? when you are silver and you have so many games like you do just give up...

Rivvy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Müerte Vs Ámor,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c9e2ei3X,comment-id=000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-14T03:11:53.902+0000)

i was N.A before you even knew what league was...

But i forced to play on E.UNE in season 4 because 280 ping

But even in S2-3-4 with 200-240-280 ping i was still plat/diamond/diamond

So you were saying? when you are silver and you have so many games like you do just give up...

You're Diamond and yet you made the mistake of not including Zed's resource bar? I guess you can afford to buy accounts.

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

{quoted}

You're Diamond and yet you made the mistake of not including Zed's resource bar? I guess you can afford to buy accounts.

its not a mistake when zed have no recourse bar because his "energy cost" mean nothing!

When you are able to use 5-6 abilities in the row without losing your energy then it mean nothing..and when you can press E-Q in lane all the time to shove minions and still have energy!

GloriousKaiser1 votes

Man enough of this crap.

OperationDEEZ11 votes

Ah, good old stereotyping and generalization.

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

{quoted}

Ah, good old stereotyping and generalization.

how i am generalize?

dosent kat have spam abilities that have low CD?

dosent gnar too?

dosent nidalee too? (cougar form)?

explain how i "generalize?"

GloriousKaiser1 votes

I see you didn't mention Riven .

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

{quoted}

I see you didn't mention Riven .

i totally forget that and this is a very good example too

Zensational1 votes

Okay, 2 points really quickly, while I agree with Yasuo, Katarina and Nidalee, your points there are valid.

Gnar's cooldown on the tool tip for his q on the first rank I believe is somewhere near 15, but if you catch it (requiring some skill) you get -10 seconds on the cooldown, so technically, Gnar has a long cooldown, but he has a reward, kinda like Olaf's Q, but without cost.

Zed uses energy, and if you're going to bring energy into this, sometimes it's still difficult managing that when you have low CDs and you feel like you wanna spam and you do leave yourself vulnerable sometimes. So I don't believe your argument there is valid.

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

{quoted}

Okay, 2 points really quickly, while I agree with Yasuo, Katarina and Nidalee, your points there are valid.

Gnar's cooldown on the tool tip for his q on the first rank I believe is somewhere near 15, but if you catch it (requiring some skill) you get -10 seconds on the cooldown, so technically, Gnar has a long cooldown, but he has a reward, kinda like Olaf's Q, but without cost.

Zed uses energy, and if you're going to bring energy into this, sometimes it's still difficult managing that when you have low CDs and you feel like you wanna spam and you do leave yourself vulnerable sometimes. So I don't believe your argument there is valid.

literally you need to have 1000 ping to not be able to catch the gnars Q (riot just put 15 CD to justify the no cost but then they say "wait if we put normal 15 he would not sell oh i got it put some reward!! But dude its to easy to catch the boomerang!! It dosent matter man we would call it a reward"

That was the mentality of the 2 people who create gnar.....

They try to justify his not costs with "high" cd and then they put a "reward" to make the actually skill 3 seconds...

The only way you cant catch the Q is if the enemy is on your face and you forced to jump away

but this would never happen in lane because the Q have like 1000 or 900 range....so you are pretty much safe from the 90% of the top laners...

About zed i already reply to some other guy

Zensational1 votes

Have you played Gnar? When you proc a q, you wanna finish the 3rd shot, so you go in to auto and huck another q, he has a super low basic attack range, so any top laner with cc easily obliterates him at that point, and even if you can't see that, if you spam it too much you turn into a monster before you want to and that could fuck up your game plan.

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

{quoted}

Have you played Gnar? When you proc a q, you wanna finish the 3rd shot, so you go in to auto and huck another q, he has a super low basic attack range, so any top laner with cc easily obliterates him at that point, and even if you can't see that, if you spam it too much you turn into a monster before you want to and that could fuck up your game plan.

"your game plan"

Spam Q proc max hp damage turn it to monster get free CC and health win lane....

"The enemy top laner stun me" oh no how what i am gonna do now? oh i know i would jump and i would get stunned when i land at 500 range away because bugs

Man i feel all this trouble...

LoRdJeSuS69694201 votes

Meh. CD doesn't really matter if it is balanced in other ways. You have to look at the champion as a whole.

3tyson1 votes

Rthat long a cd would make nidalee/reksai totaly useless

Phuc Dat Bich2 votes

{quoted}

Rthat long a cd would make nidalee/reksai totaly useless

you mean balanced? ( i am talking about nidalee screw rek rek now is a bit balanced)

Garen ultimate have the longest CD behind global ultimates

And then you have nidalee Q with 2 seconds CD and deal more damage than garen ultimate

and i have test it..

I got ulted from garen for 600 magic damage

Then i got Qed from nidalee with 600 AP for 700 magic damage on 2 second CD

and you say that he would be "useless"? are you serious?

3tyson1 votes

No i dont mean balanced i mean totaly worthles her cougar relies on getting your spear off...

she needs mana ljke crazy no one walks into fights like a cat to slam cougar abilitys there mainly used to farm if you use them like that your gonne get 1shotted akwardly fast...

it seemed like you never even tried nidalee go play her and show us how your getting challanger lol

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

{quoted}

No i dont mean balanced i mean totaly worthles her cougar relies on getting your spear off...

she needs mana ljke crazy no one walks into fights like a cat to slam cougar abilitys there mainly used to farm if you use them like that your gonne get 1shotted akwardly fast...

it seemed like you never even tried nidalee go play her and show us how your getting challanger lol

hmmmm nidalee atm is pick and ban in all elos even challenger..so you were saying?

with what division do i talk on this board? is anyone here higher than silver? for god sakes..

3tyson1 votes

Her cat abilitys always been free no one spams them for pvp..

besides ive just seen a life stream of lcs where nidalee was played so what ?

Dangerous Man1 votes

Downvoted by Mordekaiser Katarina Zac DrMundo mains Zac and Mundo easily heal the health back.

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