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Is there any reason to use Statikk Shiv instead of Phantom Dancer, now?

YumaS2Astral··11 votes·5,574 views

item 3087 now clearly gives inferior DPS. After the buff to item 3046 and nerf to item 3031, I can't see any reason why I should buy Statikk, or at least not sell it mid/late game and buy Phantom Dancer instead.

You can say that Statikk Shiv gives waveclear, but many ADCs get natural waveclear (Jinx Tristana Graves Sivir) and even the ones that don't, still prefer the better DPS from Phantom Dancer (Draven Vayne Ashe) OR they buy another item that would better fit their needs (Corki Ezreal)

Statikk Shiv gives more burst, but only if the passive manages to crit. Even then, its burst potential decreases as the game progresses; once your opponent gets a decent amount of magic resistance, the passive is going to do little damage. Even a bit of HP is enough to stomach the damage done.

The only reason that I can think to buy Statikk instead of Phantom Dancer is because Statikk is cheaper. However, the difference is minimal (300 gold). I would rather farm a little more to get a better item.

EDIT: Some champions are still better off with Statikk Shiv instead of Phantom Dancer, though. Examples are Yasuo Gangplank Lucian Tryndamere. See the below posts for more information.

68 Comments

Renaille18 votes

I stopped reading when you said the wave clear wasn't useful.

Knight SoIaire 4 votes

hard to realy call it a wave clear 100 or 200 magic damage ... that wont kill a minion

so in the end your champions's kit or ruunans does the vawe clear

500000000000000010 votes

To 5 minions. That can save you from attacking like 5 more times. If you have 1 attack speed, then that Statikk saved you 5 seconds.

Knight SoIaire 3 votes

hard to talk like that you gave here an example with as of 1.00

but what about ad etc

owerall when it comes to damage, poke or even wave clear, getting more critical strikes seems more beneficial for adc than getting a rare aoe damage proc

but if static would be stacked by ability casts, it would get a niche among adc's who use triforce and lucian, becuase they would indeed be able to scale with it

Old Man Teeto1 votes

^ This. Not to mention you could easily get the proc twice while clearing.

Additionally, Statikk Shiv is cheaper, and if your team is heavily AD gives you a small magic source that can add up in fights.

YumaS2Astral3 votes

I didn't said that the wave clear isn't useful. Actually, it's very useful. However, many ADCs already have waveclear, so they don't need to get Statikk Shiv for that reason.

7ha7guy77714 votes

It's the only item you need on statikk Shyvana

Slamurai Jack11 votes

The only champion at this point that should get item 3087 is Yasuo. That's about it.

7ha7guy7771 votes

AD Thresh ? That 100-250 magic damage could be the difference between one shotting a squishy and having to hit them twice. It's also good for 1v5 baron steal quadra kills without attacking baron

YumaS2Astral6 votes

Gangplank is still better off with Statikk Shiv instead of Phantom Dancer due to his Q.

Lucian can use it due to his mobility and his passive, and the fact that he isn't as reliant on crits as other champions (Phantom Dancer still gives him superior DPS, though)

Tryndamere can use it because his passive can make up for the critical chance that you lose when using Statikk, and he really needs the waveclear because he should be splitpushing.

Sometimes I use Statikk on KogMaw because he isn't overly reliant on crits, and Statikk gives him superior DPS when compared to Trinity Force. Kog'Maw only has fantastic waveclear when building AP. AD buids have poor waveclear.

Other than those, though... Phantom Dancer >>> Statikk Shiv

Sire Hippington4 votes

Hydra is all Tryndamere needs to instaclear waves, and PD gives not only more dps, but also allows to stack up the passive much faster if you need to(like after useing your heal). more as and more crit also means less cd on E

KING ATTILA2 votes

Exactly right. PD and Hydra are much better choices for Tryndamere.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

Except that Blade of the Ruined King gives Tryndamere superior DPS, as well as being needed to deal with tanks, and the active is needed to make Tryndamere less kite-able.

With Blade of the Ruined King he will need Statikk to clear waves

KING ATTILA1 votes

What makes you think you can't build Hydra and Blade of tbe ruined king together? Even Hydra+botrk is better than botrk+ statick.
Plus, Hyrda as a first item gives sooo much damage that you will still be hurting tanks with the crits...and don't forget the massive sustain and active/passive.

generally I rush Hydra and then PD as core items.

KING ATTILA1 votes

Don't forget 14.5 to 35% attk speed in runes.

Saianna5 votes

item 3087 + item 3085 = static hits every 3rd Auto. Ok i know it's pure AS with little damage.. But it's kinda funny :D

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

Well you then build item 3072 and your Kalista is hell to kill.

Arduno5 votes

Maybe if it kept the gold passive from item 3093

either the gold per 5 or the gold per minion

having both on item 3087 would be OP!! mehehehehehe

Sire Hippington4 votes

for some reason most people still don't get it. The IE/PD changes were serveral months ago, and i still see SS more often than PD despite SS being the clearly inferior choice. If you look at Statisiks(for example http://champion.gg/champion/Sivir) you can clearly see that PD has a higher winrate. Maybe most people are very nostalgic...or simply ignorant...or thy just love shiny lightning effeckts.

KING ATTILA2 votes

I've seen Diamond lvl Tryn mains still use statikk and I'm like....bruh look at this buffed item here and make the switch to item 3046

Sire Hippington1 votes

well, you often enough see statikk in the LCS, and you start to wonder if pros ever do any math...

KING ATTILA1 votes

lol right. Like, their mechanical skill and execution is so good that they don't bother with the numbers that much lol

Kuroi863 votes

item 3087 gives wave clear and is good for split pushing and seige. item 3046 is better for dueling and kiting.

IcyPepper1 votes

dat random downvote tho... despite the fact that you are absolutely correct.

PD has more dps, hands down. Shiv helps with waveclear, pushing a little faster, poking (especially at turret), and being a bitch in teamfights.

Now, come late-game, it's probably wise to switch to PD, but Shiv isn't terrible early game.

JustMyBassCannon2 votes

Shiv is a stronger mid-game item, while Phantom Dancer is better for late-game.

Also, if you're Yasuo, there's no real justification for taking PD over Shiv. You can already go through minions with E, and +15% AS isn't as strong as the Shiv burst.

EDIT: I've also heard of using Shiv+Luden's on Bard, but that's just fun stuff.

Dedrius2 votes

item 3087 is for early/midgame game power while item 3046 is for late game scaling.

That is what doublelift said like 4 days ago on his stream.

A Miss Fortune2 votes

As an ADC main, I feel safe to say that I don't think I've ever bought Shiv in my life on any ADCs except Twitch.

KidKaiser2 votes

buff to item 3087 . make it charge on spells cast like (trololololol) ludens Ekko

terkmc2 votes

Thematic reason Kennen Volibear

vfactor952 votes

I remember a LCS caster saying that people buy static shiv in order to get to hit their 3rd item powerspike faster.

On top of it being cheaper, avarice blade (one of the components) also generates gold. So while yes PD obviously seems to be better if you're looking at full builds you have to remember that games often don't go that far.

If you can win a decisive fight mid game because your adc finished IE Shiv and then BT (or some other third item) because the enemy adc only had 2 finished items and grab momentum in the game it becomes worth it.

Of course this requires being aware of item powerspikes and acting on them which makes it a bit more niche but to say that there's no reason to ever get shiv is simply not true.

TurtleMan8781 votes

it is good on champs that can proc it often

30562438_DEL3 votes

Ashe Crits on every attack. Yasuo Crits on almost every attack, and it synergies well with his passive. Shaco Crits on command. (the wave clear is nice too, since he doesn't have another source of it, as an assassin.)

Sire Hippington4 votes

to proc it often, you don't need crit, you need mobillity+on-hit-procs Yasuo got alot mobillity and on-hit-procs and thus does well with it, Shaco and ashe don't

Knight SoIaire 3 votes

shaco actualy can work with it becuase he can guarante he gets that 200 dmage early thats nice

ashe is the same but she can exchange the mobility requirement with ruunans that allows her to fire static often

Sire Hippington2 votes

the thing is that SS scales with crit damage, so if you don't max Q first on shaco it's not 200damage(still viable on him as he's more about burst rather than dps) Ashe does 120damage with the shiv proc, 160 with IE. I prefer PD on her by far, it gives 15% more as, ghostwalk(which is huge on low-mobillity) and 15%more crit, which is 22,5% more dps with IE. so with IE+PD, you need 4 hits(less if you get BT on top) to reach the SS proc, as adc you usually will get those 4 hits easily in between two shiv procs, and you have higher as+you deal physical damage, which is a clear advantage after getting LW.

LankPants1 votes

There's actually a little bit of anti-synergy between Ashe and SS. Unless you volley a target before your first auto it never crits, therefore your SS won't crit. Also when it does crit it does so for reduced damage.

Mathbalnase1 votes

You're not already opening with W? It gets you an extra auto-/mini-crit, and has the extra range (combined with your passive slow) to let you more easily force a trade at a time of your choosing (when you've got 4+ Q stacks and 100 Shiv stacks).

LankPants1 votes

You normally open with W or R, but there are some situations where you don't. There are also times where you do open with volley but the slow wears of, normally when kitting a melee.

Plus one of Ashe's best traits is how quickly she can melt tanks. Taking a SS doesn't really help you with that in the same way a PD does.

Daedalus8711 votes

Ignoring melees, Statikk seems to be better on burstier champs (I guess most melees fall within this) such as Graves or Lucian. Furthermore, Statikk gives more MS which is liked on the more immobile champions. And even on champions that have waveclear, it takes it to a whole other level.

Sire Hippington5 votes

actually, PD gives a bit more mobillity, especially for imobile champs. granting 1% less ms is nothing(3-4ms) compared to ignoring collision.

FantasySniper1 votes

Anyone that devotes themselves to crit-based DPS and moves around a lot.

That leaves about: Yasuo MasterYi Fiora Gangplank Volibear

I could see them buffing it if it weren't for Yasuo and the fact that the recipe is still shit.

AbsoluteSadman2 votes

I prefer phantom dancer on yi, and ive never seen it on fiora.

Course im a bronze scrub.

FantasySniper1 votes

It's simply because of their play patterns. They chase hard and hit fast, so they're proccing it quite often.

Durzaka1 votes

Phantom Dancer was ALWAYS the superior damage choice. That isnt anything new.

Shiv is cheaper, and allows for stronger burst potential. In extended fights PD will put out a lot more damage, but in a fight with fewer auto attacks Shiv wins out (ESPECIALLY if you only get 1 AA in as poke before backing away).

Nothing has really changed. PD has always provided more DPS than Shiv.

Sire Hippington1 votes

just that the difference wasn't that high in the past, with the IE/PD change at 5.1, the crit chance difference from IE+SS to IE+PD was increased from 10 to 15 The proc on SS could outwight 10% critchance on some champs in many situations. 15%crit however is a huge deal on an adc, and besides maybe lucian, no adc gets enough out of the proc to justify getting SS over PD now.

Ahurath1 votes

Yes buying shiv allows you to get to your third item faster. Shiv costs 2500 gold and PD 2800. With avarice blade you usually net 400-500 gold lets say 500 for sake of argument. Then Shiv cots 2000 gold and you will reach you're third item spike 800 gold before then usual.

THen it also offers waveclear which is really important. Sure PD deal more dps but it takes longer for you to reach your third item spike and that's a really important spike for adcs.

Sire Hippington1 votes

avarice only gives that much gold if you get it early, but if you get it early, you sacrifice alot power, which means the enemy adc can probably bully you or even get a kill on you, which means the effecktive gold gain isn't that high(unless you face dumb passive enemies that don't know how to abuse a powerspike, or more anti-powerspike in that case) you probably will end with 500g more to spent, while the aditional stats from PD are worth ~1250g

Ahurath1 votes

you always net around 500 gold from shiv, atleast 300 if you buy bf first. Bf - 300 goldish, pickaxe - 500 goldish.

Sinister Anubis1 votes

Onlyu reason to get shiv over PD is for the proc to shove waves and for the cheaper cost and gold gain from avarice blade.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

Shiv's passive is a really good midgame burst, but becomes useless later with people getting MR. So if you are finishing 20-30 minutes in the game, there is no point in getting PD.

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