Zyra on PBE

Lugg·Sep 9, 2015·1 votes·518 views

I have read that Zyra is looking really good on the PBE with the new plant AI. Does anyone think she will be strong enough to get played at Worlds?

21 Comments

5050BSSep 9, 20152 votes

She WAS doing well on the PBE. The last patch made her plants act almost just like live and so she is back to being never picked. Riot is "OK" with Zed Ult with no counter play They are "OK" with Sated F%$%ing brokeness

but Zyra's plants actually being consistent damage is something they CAN NOT HAVE.

LuggSep 9, 20151 votes

Meanwhile Heimerdinger

MatezoideSep 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

She WAS doing well on the PBE. The last patch made her plants act almost just like live and so she is back to being never picked. Riot is "OK" with Zed Ult with no counter play They are "OK" with Sated F%$%ing brokeness

but Zyra's plants actually being consistent damage is something they CAN NOT HAVE.

Wait, they changed her Plant AI back to Live?? Why?

AbyssphereSep 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Wait, they changed her Plant AI back to Live?? Why?

Not quite, but basically her plants looked really good and then they were like "Hey wait actually they looked this good because they were bugged to be better than we wanted" so they fixed that stuff. They're still better than they were but not as "OMG ZYRA IS SO MUCH BETTER" as they were upon initial PBE dispatch.

@OP, I think probably no. The changes are nice buuuuuuut I don't think Zyra fits into the competitive scene anymore. Serious lack of safety that's more abusable than ever.

Baby sitting ADCSep 10, 20151 votes

Zed Ult? Counter play : item 3157 or item 3222 (I was thinking for the slow buff on that Mik's or healing after his ult hits you and does the like 'ignite' thing.) I know Fiora's W counters nearly anything now.

Oerba No NajaSep 13, 20151 votes

wanna talk about couterplay ? Annie

manbearswineSep 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I have read that Zyra is looking really good on the PBE with the new plant AI. Does anyone think she will be strong enough to get played at Worlds?

Yes,plenty of nooblords/morons think that way.

Aside from them,no,not really.

LuggSep 9, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Yes,plenty of nooblords/morons think that way.

There is really no need to put down others while giving your opinion.

manbearswineSep 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

There is really no need to put down others while giving your opinion.

You wouldn't think that way if actually tried to have a conversation with these morons.

Besides,if a person holds a moronic opinion,that kind of is a reason to put him down.

LuggSep 9, 20152 votes

Yes, it is frustrating to deal with some people on the boards. You just refute their argument with facts and move on.

manbearswineSep 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yes, it is frustrating to deal with some people on the boards. You just refute their argument with facts and move on.

That's not how it works,they need to have some sense of the game...or sanity to be convinced of anything,they generally don't.

Ever tried dealing with the winrate "argument"? You'll have better luck trying to argue evolution to a creationist.

The current state of zyra has been mentioned a lot by pro players(often on stream),they generally put her in the shit tier both in solo q and competitive(though she's seen as worse there),those minor plant ai buffs won't change that,that's why it's a very safe bet that she won't see a single pick in worlds,but try explaining something this simple to a winrateard.

LuggSep 9, 20151 votes

To be fair, win rate can be a good indication of the health of a champion. But there are many more variables to consider than just it. Zyra has a good kit. If her plants where on the level of Heimer's turrets, she would be great.

manbearswineSep 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, win rate can be a good indication of the health of a champion.

Health and winrate generally have very little to do with each other. take malz for example,obnoxious champion,high winrate. heimer,high winrate,and is quite obnoxious. amumu,high winrate,perfectly healthy. rengar,low winrate,but very solid winrate once mastered,insanely obnoxious. le blanc,low winrate,still cancer.

they have nothing to do with each other.

But there are many more variables to consider than just it. Zyra has a good kit.

She does and she doesn't,she has very big issues stemming from riot's balancing philosophies,at her current state she either needs a rework(it doesn't need to be poppy tier,probably either to her snare or her ult) or for riot to reconsider some of their more moronic approaches(It's a very non trivial subject,and is mostly implied,not said directly).

If her plants where on the level of Heimer's turrets, she would be great.

She would be obnoxious,people keep looking at the kits of other champions and drool,heimer turrets work the way they are because the rest of his kit IS MUCH WEAKER than that of zyra,it's not just that,he needs to place his turrets at melee range,zyra doesn't,if you give her their ai she will be crazy obnoxious.

LuggSep 9, 20151 votes

If win rate goes over 55% for a champion, there is a good chance they are OP. If it goes over 60%, there is NO DOUBT a champion is OP and is in need of immediate nerfs. That's a pretty clear indication that something is wrong with the champion.

I also fail to see how you think Heimer's kit is weaker than Zyra's. Every single one of his abilities outclasses hers.

manbearswineSep 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If win rate goes over 55% for a champion, there is a good chance they are OP. If it goes over 60%, there is NO DOUBT a champion is OP and is in need of immediate nerfs. That's a pretty clear indication that something is wrong with the champion.

That's strength,not health,two very different things. And in fact,historically zyra is one of these champion who could manage a 55% winrate without anyone(except riot that is,hence the the preseason 3 nerfs) caring.

I also fail to see how you think Heimer's kit is weaker than Zyra's. Every single one of his abilities outclasses hers.

No,they don't,his turrets do,but as far as everything else zyra's abilities are more reliable and stronger.

LuggSep 10, 20151 votes

His rockets are better long range poke since they are much harder to dodge. His grenades do damage and CC. His ult has three options to choose from, so you can pick the right one for the circumstances.

Zyra has plants with lower range than his turrets, her snare is pretty easy to avoid, her AoE may be slightly better than his grenades. Her ult is really good, but doesn't have the flexibility that Heimer's does.

manbearswineSep 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

His rockets are better long range poke since they are much harder to dodge.

They are also blocked by creeps and aren't hard to dodge at all.

His grenades do damage and CC.

They are also easy to dodge in general and especially their cc is easy to dodge.

His ult has three options to choose from, so you can pick the right one for the circumstances.

I would say that even so it's inferior to zyra's ult.

Zyra has plants with lower range than his turrets,

Yes,as I've said,her plants are weaker than his turrets.

her snare is pretty easy to avoid,

I definitely agree,but heimers stun is easier to avoid than her snare,and his rockets are easier to avoid than her q.

her AoE may be slightly better than his grenades.

Slightly?

Her ult is really good, but doesn't have the flexibility that Heimer's does.

Zyra is actually by far the more versatile one,heimer can mostly just hold a position,zyra can also be aggressive(in comparison to heimer that is).

They are both shit picks in higher levels,but I will admit heimer has more of a niche than zyra does,but I'm not sure if I would say he's the stronger one,as zyra is a bit more versatile,but overall both are weak champions,at least heimer has a rather obnoxious play pattern to justify that,zyra however is being kept in the shit tier for no obvious reason.

LuggSep 10, 20151 votes

I'm not saying Heimer is far ahead of Zyra, he is just slightly ahead. His rockets can fan out to the point where pretty much no one can avoid them if you know how to aim them correctly.

In Plat+ ELO, Heimer has a 54% win rate and Zyra has a 51% win rate. So they are both effective in the right hands, it's just that the Donger is slightly better.

manbearswineSep 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying Heimer is far ahead of Zyra, he is just slightly ahead. His rockets can fan out to the point where pretty much no one can avoid them if you know how to aim them correctly.

In Plat+ ELO, Heimer has a 54% win rate and Zyra has a 51% win rate. So they are both effective in the right hands, it's just that the Donger is slightly better.

And what about their pickrates?

I thought we already realized that winrates are not strength,and neither of these champions is strong,heimer can be annoying in certain matchups,and combined with his pickrate people aren't familiar with the matchup,hence his winrate.

Zyra is similar,but she doesn't really have any strong matchups,but her weak matchups aren't as bad as those of heimer,but she is however generally bad.

LuggSep 10, 20151 votes

Heimer is good because his skillcap is really low. Just have 3 turrets down, drop ult turret, pop Zhyonas, win fight.

I'm just hoping this latest fix to her plants will fix her gameplay. I think she is a great champion that deserves more playtime.

manbearswineSep 10, 20151 votes