Jhin Passive is Disgusting Invisible Power

Toastey·Mar 17, 2016·4 votes·5,399 views

The amount of invisible power and free gold you get from Jhin's passive is insanely broken.

2%-40% (+4% per 10% crit chance) (+2.5% per 10% attack speed) bonus AD

This explains why we can see players somehow lose lane (on one of the most abusive and dominant laning champions) and still deal massive damage later on. Rekkles lost every single Jhin lane he played at IEM, but still dished out disgusting amounts of damage.

Given the theoretical gold value of AD at 35 gold per 1 AD, Jhin can get something like 8000-9000 gold value from his passive. That's literally a free 7th and 8th item at full build---and it allows a Jhin with 4-5 items to keep up with an enemy ADC who could potentially be 3k gold and a full item ahead. If I remember correctly, at roughly 340 AD, Jhin actually gains more AD from buying a Zeal item than from buying actual AD. His passive seems like unnecessary babysitting, allowing him to essentially have no bad build path as long as he has an Infinity Edge.

I haven't seen a lot of people addressing the massively broken amounts of free gold and stats that Jhin gets from his ult, so I thought I'd point it out. For all Riot's theatrics about removing and avoiding invisible power in the game, Jhin has more of it than any champion I've ever seen in the past 6 years.

68 Comments

NarsicusMar 17, 20166 votes

This is absurdly hyperbolic. Yes Jhin hits hard, but that is because he consolidates other dps stats into raw damage not because he is obtaining a ton of free stats. His crits deal less damage than usual to even out the crit -> ad and the attack speed -> ad ratio is just plain bad, just about every other champion is getting more dps from attack speed than Jhin is.

You can see with with some pretty simple math. Imagine a champion puts out 100 dps, specifically they are dealing 100 damage per shot and shoot once per second. If you give them 100% attack speed they now do 100 damage twice per second for 200 dps, or a 100% increase. If you give them 100% crit they now do 200 damage once per second (because crits deal double damage) and thus gain a 100% damage increase. As you can see 1% of either crit or attack speed increase a champions dps by 1%.

Now lets take Jhins stat modifications into account, he gets 25% of his attack speed as bonus ad and 40% of his crit as bonus ad. Also his crits only deal 50% more damage instead of 100%(It is listed as 25% less total crit damage, but 25% of 200% is 50%). Once again 100 damage per hit, one hit per second. Giving him 100% attack speed increases his damage by 25%, making it one shot for 125 every second or a 25% increase in dps. Increasing his crit by 100% gives him a 40% damage boost, so 140 damage per hit. It then of course crits for 50% more damage or a bonus 70 making the total 210 dps. Jhin wins this one by 10 dps and the total increase is 110%.

Now finally lets compare the two, 100% attack and 100% crit the super multiplicative damage increasers. And also lets remember that Jhin does get a passive 40% from his passive naturally at level 18.

100 dps + 100% crit is 200 damage per shot per second 200 dps + 100% attack speed is 200 damage per shot twice a second Total = 400 dps

As you can see the true power of crit and attack speed is that they work on one another multiplicatively.

100 dps + [40% ad(passive) + 25%ad (from attack speed) + 40% ad (from crit)] = +105% ad 205 damage per shot per second + 50%(because it critically strikes) 307.5 dps

Jhin does not have that full benefit since crit and attack speed are both tossed into the same damage multiplication formula, he still gets a reduced multiplicative value because his crits hit for 50% additional damage but it is noticeably less. But of course in this case it would list the ADC as having 100 ad while Jhin would be listed at 205 so Jhin is obviously doing more damage right?

And we didn't even count for Jhin's reload times which late game come close to eating up half of hit time for attacks.

Now Jhin does still get compensated for attack speed and crit, but he does so by gaining defense through movement speed after crits. The point of this math is to show that Jhin actually has some of the worst scaling of any ADC in terms of damage output.

TLDR: Does Jhin do a lot of damage? Yes, but that is because he consolidates another ADC's damage into far less shots. In actual fact he does less raw dps than basically every ADC even before taking into account his reload times so claiming that late game he is gaining '8000-9000 gold value from his passive' is just ludicrous.

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

Okay but look

He can slam into you like a truck breaking the speed limit and just back off, then slam you 5 more times from beyond the range of any of your abilities (unless you have a global or your name is Xerath). He DOES get huge amounts of free gold from the stat conversion, since raw AD factors into both his autos AND his abilities AND Deathfire Touch (which grants him huge amounts of mixed damage in the late game---insanely difficult to itemise against).

In a vacuum, yes, a standard ADC should be able to compete in terms of DPS if they both just stand there and free hit each other like idiots. But in a world where Jhin is played properly, kiting backwards and using his 4th shot movespeed + his traps, then laying down his W and R from behind retribution range, the amount of AD he gets from his passive is absolutely absurd. You can't deny that he gets 2 free items' worth of AD from his passive. On literally no other champion does buying AS and crit not only give you those stats but ALSO directly buff your ability damage.

I don't know why none of you can understand that Jhin isn't just standing around in a free-hitting competition with another ADC when I talk about the power of his passive. His Q, W, E, and R all scale, and they scale insanely well with AD. Granting him upwards of 300 free AD is overkill. His autos hit harder, his 4th shot executes, his Q hits harder, his W hits harder, his E hits harder, his R hits harder, HIS FUCKING KEYSTONE MASTERY HITS HARDER FROM BUILDING A STAT THAT ISN'T EVEN THE STAT THAT THOSE ABILITIES SCALE OFF OF. What does it take to make you understand that he actually is getting full value out of that passive? What do I have to point out to make you realise that 9000 free gold from a passive is fucking broken?

Elite4RunnerMar 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bx3jguHE,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-03-17T13:47:18.292+0000)

In a vacuum, yes, a standard ADC should be able to compete in terms of DPS if they both just stand there and free hit each other like idiots. But in a world where Jhin is played properly, kiting backwards and using his 4th shot movespeed + his traps, then laying down his W and R from behind retribution range, the amount of AD he gets from his passive is absolutely absurd. You can't deny that he gets 2 free items' worth of AD from his passive. On literally no other champion does buying AS and crit not only give you those stats but ALSO directly buff your ability damage.

Saying that Jhin being played properly is excluding the possibility that any other championship is played against him properly. He is very vulnerable to assassins and any form of CC. His Q can be avoided and is actually very difficult to be sure it will bounce the way you want to. His traps aren't really that difficult to escape. His stun is actually telegraphed well enough that it can be dodged. And his ULT immobilizes him, tells the enemy his exactly what the range is, and most of the time requires him to fire info the fog of war. He can certainly be out played. Not to mention that if you are itemizing him to 'hit like a truck' he well be a glass canon.

Now as far as having extra items worth of AD goes, try comparing this to another stat. Imagine a tank having extra items worth of armor or magic resist, but they can only ever have an ADC worth of HP. They well inevitably die because the damage reduction can only go so far. For a mage, let's give them an extra item or so of AP, but you will have nowhere near enough Mana, or we'll double your cooldowns. Yeah, you can dish out some damage, but there comes a point where that resource wI'll balance itself out.

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

That's...not how it works...at all.

He is very vulnerable to assassins and any form of CC.

That's what peel and QSS are for. This goes for literally every ADC in the game.

His Q can be avoided

I'm not sure if you're memeing me, but it's a targeted ability buddy. It's one of the reasons that he's such an abusive and dominant laner.

His traps aren't really that difficult to escape.

That's not the point. While they do have fat damage, they open up kiting options for him. They give him safety and control.

His ult immobilizes him, tells the enemy his exactly what the range is, and most of the time requires him to fire into the fog of war.

Doesn't matter? If he's ulting properly and his team is playing properly, he'll be out of reach. You'll be pinned down by his front-liners creating a line of skirmish that you can't just walk past at your whim. He only fires his ult into fog to poke or to clean up. If he's contributing to a fight with it, he has full vision.

Your entire last paragraph is so disingenuous and irrelevant that I won't even address it.

Elite4RunnerMar 17, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bx3jguHE,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-17T14:08:48.896+0000)

I'm not sure if you're memeing me, but it's a targeted ability buddy. It's one of the reasons that he's such an abusive and dominant laner.

Sure I suppose it is better to guarantee the least possible damage than to try and get the scaled damage. I'll give you that but you do need to be dangerously close in order to single target an enemy champion.

Doesn't matter? If he's ulting properly and his team is playing properly, he'll be out of reach. You'll be pinned down by his front-liners creating a line of skirmish that you can't just walk past at your whim. He only fires his ult into fog to poke or to clean up. If he's contributing to a fight with it, he has full vision.

You can't base your argument on not only you playing your champion perfectly, but your whole team playing perfectly, and not expect that at least someone on the other team will have some good plays as well. If you are playing against someone anywhere near your skill level they are sure to get at least some good plays in.

Your entire last paragraph is so disingenuous and irrelevant that I won't even address it.

Always a good way to win, simply ignore any possible response. I don't think you actually know what disingenuous means. It is completely relevant. To an ADC attack damage is more effective with attack speed. To a tank Armor is more effective with heath. To a mage AP is more effective with CDR. If any of those former stats were doubled and the latter stats halved and prevented from being increased, the net would lose a part of its core value.

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

yeah but the point is the free AD is in such a huge amount that the dps is the same if not higher.

i don't think you understand how armour and mr work in this game. it's literally effective hp vs a particular type of damage. if you had 2000 HP and 700 armour/mr, you'd still be unkillable.

as for the MR analogy... i'm not sure if you remember 1500 AP veigar. or 1000 AP nidalee. or 1200 AP cassiopeia. or any of the old archangel-stacking builds. that has already been tried, and it is not balanced at all.

alright, imagine for a second that a tank can't buy any armour or mr, but any armour or mr is converted into bonus HP, on top of them already getting 40% bonus HP. would you like to deal with a champion that has 10k+ HP? probably not.

now imagine if a mage can't buy any cooldown reduction or mana regen, but any CDR or MP5 they buy is instead converted into raw, unadulterated AP---again, on top of them already getting 40% bonus AP. do you enjoy constantly getting one-shotted or chunked for a huge portion of your life bar? i imagine no.

TheMinezMar 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bx3jguHE,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-17T14:41:23.667+0000) alright, imagine for a second that a tank can't buy any armour or mr, but any armour or mr is converted into bonus HP, on top of them already getting 40% bonus HP. would you like to deal with a champion that has 10k+ HP? probably not.

You forgot your fish! He became the king of the river after he learned how to farm! TahmKench

NarsicusMar 17, 20165 votes

I only mentioned dps because all you seemed to care about was raw ad numbers. I was pointing out how raw ad is certainly not the only factor in place when it comes to damage output.

Even still you only seem to care about raw ad numbers, and you complain that I think about things in a vacuum.......

Converting one stat into another does not give you 'free gold', if a champion converted 100% of all magic resist they get into armor they do not GAIN value. Certain stats might be values slightly differently so there could be discrepencies but generally it is going to be balanced around an exchange. What you are assuming is that Jhin gets his bonus AD while still gaining full benefit from attack speed and crit which is blatantly NOT the case.

And so what if his abilities scale with his AD, abilities scale with stats all the time. Do you honestly think that Vaynes silver bolts and huge bonus ad from ult don't 'scale' with her attack speed? That attack speed steroids don't scale with both ad AND crit? Hell, just look at Kogmaw, he gets an attack speed steroid, breaks the attack speed cap, AND gains an on hit for %max hp damage. If that isn't stat synergy I don't know what is! And yet, how well is he currently doing despite all that 'synergy'? It is almost like you can adjust a champions power despite obvious synergy in their kit or something.

And if we are going to assume champions are played 'properly' how much damage are Jhins abilities doing if people play 'properly' against him and dodge? If Vayne plays 'properly' against him and chases him while he is reloading? All of these questions just add in more factors that show that just counting how much AD Jhin has is pointless when trying to consider how good he is against the opposition.

You are basically just looking at Jhin's high AD number and going "Holy crap so op, no one else can even get close to that much AD its just to insane!" While ignoring what he gives up for this number and what other ADCs can offer that he cant, like consistant high dps against an enemy frontline or the ability to disengage from an enemy dive.

If you think Jhin is op, fine that's your opinion and you have a right to it. But your current claims are quite honeslty foolish, if you want to compare Jhin against everyone else by just listing how much AD he has of course he is going to be the best. But last time I checked champions have a few more points to them then just their AD.

Blazing TenshiMar 17, 20163 votes

Every part of Jhin's kit is gross.

TaoistMasterMar 17, 20161 votes

however, he makes things beautiful

69469238DEL1Mar 17, 20163 votes

https://youtu.be/oohvCnKgiVI

Here's the math on Jhin.

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

i'm not sure which side you're arguing for? there it is, clear as day when he pulls up the 4-item build. Jhin gets 4k-5k extra gold value out of 4 items. An actual full 5th item at 4 items.

69469238DEL1Mar 17, 20161 votes

I'm not arguing for either side, Jhin is a scary champ is all

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

well you've provided direct and concrete evidence for my argument, which is that jhin gets inordinate amounts of free gold. thanks

69469238DEL1Mar 17, 20162 votes

No problem man, cheers

Elite4RunnerMar 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hunted Horror,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bx3jguHE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-03-17T13:57:43.736+0000)

https://youtu.be/oohvCnKgiVI

Here's the math on Jhin.

I'm actually surprised to see errors in his explanation. Idk if it was just the caster's error or if the information changed at some point, but just one example is that he said 100% crit chance will cause Jhin to crit strike on every shot. In truth he will only crit on 4 of his 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 10th, and 11th shots on average. 4th, 8th and 12th are guaranteed crits.

69469238DEL1Mar 17, 20161 votes

He excludes the 4th shot on account of it always criting, watch the video again

Elite4RunnerMar 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hunted Horror,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bx3jguHE,comment-id=000600010000,timestamp=2016-03-17T14:16:14.549+0000)

He excludes the 4th shot on account of it always criting, watch the video again

But he said every shot crits at 100% crit strike chance from items. That is false.

69469238DEL1Mar 17, 20162 votes

He said at 100% crit chance you have like a 30something crit value on Jhin, but whatever man, cheers

BladeSteelMar 17, 20161 votes

on Jhin if you have 100% crit every shot will crit....

Elite4RunnerMar 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

on Jhin if you have 100% crit every shot will crit....

Actually, ... I guess I stand corrected. I am pretty sure there was a time, maybe before release, where his passive reduced his practical application of critical strike chance to 40% total. I guess I could have simply misunderstood his passive and never actually corrected myself. Thank you.

BladeSteelMar 17, 20161 votes

That was a common misunderstanding that I saw all over the boards before he was released to the PBE, just by people looking at his reveal, and thought that just because his 4th shot was a guarenteed crit, that only the 4th shot crit, and thus buying crit on him was useless.

ArlanKelsMar 17, 20161 votes

Too much math hurts Arlan's head.

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

alright, then here: imagine that after he builds his second item, jhin gets a free extra item at all times. then, when he has 6 items, he gets two free extra items, and you can't match him, because you only have 6 slots.

ArlanKelsMar 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bx3jguHE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-03-17T12:37:06.034+0000)

alright, then here: imagine that after he builds his second item, jhin gets a free extra item at all times. then, when he has 6 items, he gets two free extra items, and you can't match him, because you only have 6 slots.

I dunno I don't think boots would make him have a free item would it? or are jhin players goes sans the bootahs and just building another movement buffing item?

KaleidosMar 17, 20161 votes

Honestly if you look at his growth formula, his passive balances out. Crit is extremely cost effective for him, but AS is basically like burning money in terms of cost efficiency. He's designed just to hit hard. Since he has very average natural AS, the 4th hit animation taking longer than the rest, as well as his forced reload time, it's simply a matter of capitalizing on the fact that he won't ever attack as fast as any other marksmen even if all they do is buy a single AS item. His damage output is insane, but only since you're seeing a normal marksman's damage output being consolidated into far less attacks within the same period of time.

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

And that's a problem. Think about the nature of consolidating damage that has to skillfully be dealt through positioning and spacing and attack timing---taking all that damage and cramming it into the blink of an eye, AND tacking execute damage onto every 4th auto. Think about the amount of safety Jhin gets from not being required to constantly stay in the mix. Think about the fact that he can fully contribute his presence to teamfights from 2500+ range away.

Even if AS is burning gold, I wager that the amount of value he gets from his passive will still net him ~6000-7000 extra gold at 6 items---WAY more than enough to offset attack speed's relatively poor scaling on him. Again, that's still a free 7th and 8th item.

If he's going to get bonus AD from buying things that aren't AD, his passive shouldn't have a base. If his passive is going to have a 40% base (which in itself is absolutely ridiculous amounts of free gold), then building attack speed and crit on him should give absolutely nothing.

DrCyanideMar 17, 20161 votes

Think about the amount of safety Jhin gets from not being required to constantly stay in the mix. Think about the fact that he can fully contribute his presence to teamfights from 2500+ range away.

Less safety than most of the Mages I play.

If you're thinking of his play pattern as being an ADC, you're thinking of him wrong.

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

Oh? What's the correct way to think of then, Dr Cyanide the Jhin Expert?

DrCyanideMar 17, 20161 votes

Like a Mage. He operates like one, that had been mentioned by almost everyone that has played him since he hit the PBE.

An ADC can take potshots at the tanks in front, and when their team goes in rotate to attaching the carries, no matter when that transition happens. Jhin can't do that in the same way, he'll run the risk of being low on/out of shots when the engage happens. If you say "your team should wait for your" think about the opposite situation then, the other team engaging on you. Do you know that it's like having only one attack before having to wait a few seconds for another? It's like being a Mage, waiting for your cooldowns to come up, only it's your auto that's on cooldown.

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

If you just play him like a mage, you lose so much DPS and you lose so much value on your 4th shot. Ideally, you play for 4th shot -> kite back onto traps, using W -> your team sets up a skirmish line -> you use your R -> you walk back in for more 4th shot damage.

You don't play Jhin like a mage, and you don't play him like an ADC. You play him like Jhin, because of the champion-specific strengths and powerful kit.

I don't know what your qualifications are, but I've spent countless hours watching Jhin games from Korean Jhins, European Jhins, and North American Jhins. I've watched dozens of Jhin games from Sneaky, arguably the most mechanically proficient Jhin at this point in time (it especially shows in his CS'ing mechanics and comfort on the champion; every other pro I've watched routinely fuck up their farm through things like not knowing how to maximise the Q bounce's damage increase or W'ing too late and missing a creep as they reload). I'd wager I have a much more intimate understanding of Jhin's inner workings than you do, but if I'm wrong, feel free to prove me wrong.

DrCyanideMar 17, 20161 votes

What I've got is personal experience. A few years of being a Mage Main and 32 Jhin games under my belt. If na.op.gg is correct, you've got closer to 5 Jhin games played.

I'm not looking at someone else's experience and guessing what he's like, I have my own.

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

yeah because 32 jhin games in silver 5 trashcan elo games will tell you so much about how a champion should be played

analysis of dozens and dozens of pro player games from around the world, on the other hand, doesn't count for anything. you're probably the type of guy who thinks that analysts and coaches don't know anything, huh?

Big LincolnMar 17, 20162 votes

you're silver 3. quit stroking yourself

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

oh hi there, you must be Dr Analysts-Know-Nothing's brother! nice to meet you.

WOW you're gold 2?!?! you must be so much better than me, MY BAD. playing gold 2 soloQ must make you so much more qualified than me. spending ungodly amounts of hours tracking performance and players around the globe is for shitters, right?

DrCyanideMar 17, 20162 votes

I'd like to point out if he was my brother or a friend we'd have played games together, and if he was my smurf we'd be closer in rank or have played with some of the same people. I'd think that's something a wanna-be-analyst like yourself would pick up on when you saw he was Gold 2.

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

lol @ "wanna-be-analyst"

i guarantee you i've thought longer and deeper about the game in an analytical manner than you ever have and ever will. also lmfao at your 1450 hours in the game, probably over 2 years or so.

i have 2500 hours here over 6 years bud. but sure, you have equal argument footing because you played 32 games of jhin.

BladeSteelMar 17, 20161 votes

Wow over 6 years and you're still silver 3? shows how much you know about the game (look i can be a jerk too)

DrCyanideMar 17, 20161 votes

You keep working your spreadsheets, I'll keep building my LoL stat website. Just wish this semester wasn't going so terrible, I was making huge strides on it before but now I can barely afford the time. :/

BladeSteelMar 17, 20161 votes

I was also there for all of those, so jokes on you! How about instead of acting like a know-it-all jerk, you realize that other people may have also thought about things. Just because you've spent "more time" thinking about it, it doesn't mean that you're right. All you've done is argue here, and be a jerk. Grow up, and maybe realize that the world of league doesn't revolve around you.

BladeSteelMar 17, 20161 votes

And no reply to my comment? Oh all of the sudden you realize that people who have been here just as long if not longer than you KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. So you decide to start another post. YOU don't know what you're talking about. If you did have "so much game knowledge" you would actually not just list his "broken 'free' ad" without realizing what he misses out for it. Did you account for the lower crit damage? how about reload time? how about no boost of attack speed? No. you didn't. Now get off your high horse and admit that you are wrong. If his passive really was as broken as you say it is then he would have a much higher winrate in plat+...but he doesn't. and to explain that you say "MEH MUCH FREE AD OP I SOOO SMART GUIZ" without really saying anything. Grow up kid.

Elite4RunnerMar 17, 20161 votes

First, you should probably stop obsessing. I mean I felt like I thought about this game too much. You just made me feel WAY better. Try yoga or something.

Next, let's just look at a very simple fact. He had only been out for a few months now. A lot of champions tend to be strong out of the box, then they get nurf'd in one form or another, then buffed, then buffed again, nurf'd, buffed, blah, blah, blah. .. people will learn how to play around his weaknesses, which he has, or he will have. Eventually he will fade.

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

kek i've been here for 6 years buddy. you don't have to tell me how the pattern goes. i, too, love greg streets trademarked brand of flavour-of-the-month balancing.

as for thinking about the game too much, I'm a game designer by trade. was getting a uni education for it before i had to drop out because i'm fucking poor and this country's schooling system is ass. please vote bernie sanders if you're old enough to vote.

Elite4RunnerMar 17, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bx3jguHE,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-03-17T14:51:39.926+0000)

kek i've been here for 6 years buddy. you don't have to tell me how the pattern goes. i, too, love greg streets trademarked brand of flavour-of-the-month balancing.

as for thinking about the game too much, I'm a game designer by trade. was getting a uni education for it before i had to drop out because i'm fucking poor and this country's schooling system is ass. please vote bernie sanders if you're old enough to vote.

I'm just saying man, you're taking all of this awful personally. You say he is over powered and you said why. I said I don't believe he is and why, as did others. He has some monster strengths, but he hl also has some pretty clear weaknesses that can, and will, be exploited.

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

i never said jhin was broken

i said that getting 8000 free gold of stats from a passive is insanely broken. how that fits in with the champ doesn't really matter, since you can take the concept of 8000 free gold (and basically two extra items) and apply it to any champion.

like i said, imagine a tank getting 40% bonus HP, then getting additional % HP as a conversion from armour and MR. alternatively, imagine a mage getting 40% bonus AP, then getting additional % AP as a conversion from CDR and MP5

clearly invisible power. 8000 gold worth of it, in jhin's case.

Elite4RunnerMar 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bx3jguHE,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-17T15:01:11.188+0000)

i never said jhin was broken

i said that getting 8000 free gold of stats from a passive is insanely broken. how that fits in with the champ doesn't really matter, since you can take the concept of 8000 free gold (and basically two extra items) and apply it to any champion.

like i said, imagine a tank getting 40% bonus HP, then getting additional % HP as a conversion from armour and MR. alternatively, imagine a mage getting 40% bonus AP, then getting additional % AP as a conversion from CDR and MP5

clearly invisible power. 8000 gold worth of it, in jhin's case.

Wait, so you're saying that he has a passive that inherently gives him an 8000 gold advantage, but you're not saying that he's broken?

ToasteyMar 17, 20161 votes

the passive is broken, the kit isn't

to clarify, he's potentially broken because of the passive, and only because of the passive.

again, take that passive, translate it to any other class of champion. 10k+ hp tanks? 1k+ AP mages? take your pick

MoesndMar 17, 20161 votes

Jhin aside from his passive is a weak champion though. His scalings and kit are lackluster so the passive makes up for it. Ya if you gave other champions that much stats they would be op because their kit ia not balanced around extra stats like that. Jhin is not op