Patch 7.8 suggestion: "graves can no longer push back large monsters with his AA"

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I mean, the logic here is pretty simple: Graves has pretty good clears and manages to be pretty healthy in the jungle. What allows him to do that? Armor from true grit and knockback on his autos + kiting with his dash. What could be removed to make his jungle a little more dangerous but not destroy his playstyle? His armor/dash is pretty essential to his core "get in your face and feed you buckshot" playstyle, but the knockback only affects monsters and minions. If it didn't knock back the big monsters (still affects little ones) then graves ends up taking a bit more damage, making his jungle a bit more dangerous, making him less oppressive.

The logic there is indeed simple, but that's the problem. Reality isn't. See, when you see a Graves full clear, the thing that stays in your head most is the fact that he can take both buffs without taking really any damage, but A) that's not actually all too special, the buffs have 200 fucking movement speed and are stupidly easy to kite, and B) he can't do this with any other camp. In order: Gromp is ranged, Wolves are too fast, Raptors are too numerous and the big one is ranged, and Krugs are weird. The big one can be kited without knockback, and the little ones are difficult to kite even with it.

Basically, the only camps this would really make him take more damage on are the buffs, one of which he generally gets a leash for, and maybe the wolves a bit. In total, it might actually make him use his potion or start 3 pots instead of refillable, but he'll still quite easily be able to full health full clear.

And honestly? I'm completely okay with that. People were asking for more variety in what ADCs did, so Riot let at least one of them out of bot lane. I wish they'd let more of them out and free up space for other roles to also go into lane with a support. + could be a strong lane in theory, for example. + any CC support could do a lot of work, I imagine. In fact, I remember someone on the boards mentioning that they'd sometimes take Darius to bot lane and said it worked out for them if they had a support with CC. + sounds good. Pantheon can bully hard, go all-in and Thresh can help make up for Panth's lack of escapes with his lantern and get him out of situations Panth couldn't ordinarily escape from. Feels like League could have far more variety if they'd let supports not have to baby ADCs. I think this is the only MOBA I routinely see a single role babied for an extended period of time even at a high level of play. ADCs are usually weak early, but they're not so useless that they can't at least farm without a support if both supports aren't there in the first place.

I know. It's still not enough to offset his passive even with AS marks.

Edit: I thought you had replied to a different comment. Whoops. What I should have said is "I know, but he doesn't attack at a flat rate."