I feel like it's a common misconception that Low CS = Playing Badly

Get Ogre Here·May 22, 2019·14 votes·6,922 views

Now before anyone roasts me based on my OP.GG, yes I know I inherently suck at CSing, but even when I'm having a good game, this can still be an issue.

So I'm playing decently and someone on my team isn't doing great. I point this out (not in a flame-ish way, in a helpful way), and they comeback with "at least I don't have CS"

But what these people don't understand is that in these games, I'm usually playing Talon and we're late into the game. If I'm playing Talon and we have a hypercarry ADC, of course I know that I'm gonna fall off so I'm going to give them all of the waves to make sure they can be as strong as possible.

So if the early-mid game assassin has 150 cs and the ADC has 300 cs and you're like 30 minutes into the game, that's better than the assassin having 200 cs and the ADC having 250 cs, right?

34 Comments

ChrisBrownzeMay 22, 201913 votes

Looked up some d2+ talon mains. After 500+ talon games this season they all average around 7cs per min. You average 4.9 cs/min. If you want to pretend that your cs is okay, great, but dont go around spreading false information that low cs= playing badly is a common misconception, because it's not.

foristMay 22, 20191 votes

It's not like you can't climb with a low cs/min, you just gotta be better at other aspects of the game. I average about 5 cs/min as well when i play talon in ranked.

Get Ogre HereMay 22, 20191 votes

Okay um what?

I'm Silver 4 trash, why should you hold me up to the expecations of diamond 2 players??
I literally made a disclaimer that said I know I suck and am terrible at csing and not to bother.

Read the post before you comment.

ChrisBrownzeMay 22, 20192 votes

You literally wrote: "I feel like it's a common misconception that Low CS = Playing Badly"

I responded proving to you that its not a common misconception. In order to be good you have to cs well. If youre not csing well then youre playing badly. Therefore its not a common misconception. ITS A FACT, that averaging Low CS = Playing Badly

MiximumDennisNov 14, 20191 votes

No it's not. It's good but it's not necessary.

Meteora707May 22, 20196 votes

I point this out (not in a flame-ish way, in a helpful way)

you do what now? how do you point out that "you suck ass" in a helpful way?

Ataraxia RSPSMay 22, 20196 votes

"Could you try to play a little safer/not fight him? I'll come help when I can, but I can't if he's too fed"

"Yo, you should try building xItem this matchup, yItem isn't really as useful this game"

Plenty of nice ways to point out that something isn't working. No reason to be a jackass about it and try to tilt your own teammate.

hrooza dota May 22, 20193 votes

fkvalerly is talking about this

So I'm playing decently and someone on my team isn't doing great.

theres exacly no helpful way to tell someone they are doing bad/not doing good

giving tips or shot calls of items or plans is completely different since it does not mean that person you talk with is doing bad/not doing great

Ataraxia RSPSMay 22, 20192 votes

I'm talking about the same thing. Our Teemo is 0-2 against their Riven "Hey Teemo, could you play a bit safer? I'll gank when I can, but I can't handle that Riven if she gets too fed"

I mean, there's plenty of ways to ask a teammate to assess what they're doing. Contrary to popular belief you don't usually get "Bad Teammates" so much as a teammate having a bad game or in an unfamiliar matchup. Happens to all of us.

hrooza dota May 22, 20191 votes

what im saying is what you are saying does not exactly mean that the teemo is doing badly.

for example you can say that to the bot lane/top lane in a hard match up at the start while playing mid [garen try to play save against kennen i will try to gank when i can] .

tips and shotcalls does not exactly need to be said to only the one who is having a bad game, sometimes the one who is doing good need a tip or a shotcall .

also for the second part i really dont disagree tho im not sure why you are talking about that when nobody brought it up .

sry if it was my bad english.

Get Ogre HereMay 22, 20191 votes

Lunar is completely correct, that's what I meant, I should have elaborated.

JhinuinelyDunkMay 22, 20191 votes

These things piss me off more than actual flame and makes me mute the person telling me this. You arent looking at the lane you dont know what happend and your not the one who tells me not to fight. Most of the times ive died once or twice and my team says this i fight and win while they int

Ataraxia RSPSMay 23, 20191 votes

Except I AM watching you lane. I'm moving my camera around every time I have a free moment to see how everyone is doing, where I can go to gank, who might come gank me, etc.

It's also really really easy to know what happened when your lane is pushed past river, the enemy is up 2-0 with a 2 level lead, and you walk into lane to minions and die - You went too far up and either tried to fight, or didn't respect their lead and got killed. Either way you need to play more safely and not fight them. Sorry you have a problem with good advice.

JhinuinelyDunkMay 24, 20191 votes

Yes but u cant say never fight them there will be opportunities to kill them. Idk people like you with giant egos and dont know what will happen in lane should not be typing about it. If i was in ur game u would be muted. U really dont understand laning if u think you can just sit under tower for the rest of the game on anything but a tank

Original SinMay 22, 20195 votes

Talon shouldn't even stall the game out until it gets to late. You need to end the game asap by snowballing bot. Its all about tempo. If you're constantly getting to late on talon just play kassadin or cassio

JuiceBoxPMay 22, 20195 votes

Honestly, cs is everything in this game. 80% of your item gold comes from cs.

15 cs is a kill. 150 cs in 20 minutes is essentially going 50 cs and 7 kills By minute 20

Gold allows you to buy items, items allows you to make plays, making plays allows you to kill and snowball the game.

Csing is the most important skill in the game.

SyrileMay 22, 20192 votes

So basically, you are being toxic and when someone points out that you are playing poorly, you want to rant to us about it? Just want to clarify that this is what you are claiming with this post.

Get Ogre HereMay 22, 20191 votes

I'm kinda confused at what you mean..

The23rdGamerMay 22, 20192 votes

Giving gold over to your teammates is great, but if your bottom lane comes to mid and is csing, you should probably look to try csing elsewhere.

Sure, they need gold, but you do too (unless you're already full build or massively ahead of their team, which this doesn't seem to be the case).

I think it's an idea in a decent direction, even if it's not entirely true or the most efficient way to play the game. ^^;

General Esdeath May 22, 20192 votes

Nothing pisses me off more than when you're being camped/zoned top and some dick tooth says something like "lul 49 cs at 10 minutes"

Alright man I can go get 12 more CS before I die again, that's fine with me if it makes you happy. I'll have 80 CS at 10 minutes but I'll also have 8 deaths so :V

foristMay 22, 20191 votes

Well, a higher cs/min is always better. Depends whether you prioritize cs'ing efficiently or being in the right spot for mid/late game team fights. If you do end up with low cs numbers you have to make sure you are doing more damage than your relative gold value, or supplement low cs with high kill scores; otherwise your team will be at a disadvantage.

LetMeAfkPlssMay 22, 20191 votes

well low cs is kinda playing badly unless you have a lux support or something

Craft ZeppelinMay 22, 20191 votes

There is another factor that comes into this. The players gold/performance efficiency. Faker for example is known to able to overcome enemies CS or kills higher than him because he can take the opportunities. As long as you can outmaneuver or place right gambits, you can expect yourself to gain in on enemies and be toe-to-toe, or even technically be ahead of them even if you are on a gold deficit.

Midlaners often go through this since ADCs rotate. But you must keep in mind you can take jungle minions, or go to sidelanes to keep up. I know what you are talking about.

ReySolomonMay 22, 20191 votes

That's why it's stupid when your teammates say ''lol 30 mins in and lower cs than your laner'' like dude? are you that blind that everytime I want to farm our ADC takes it OR someone else does before I even auto it?

A Chaotic MindMay 22, 20191 votes

it's true tho. anything less than 8 cs/min (unless extreme fiesta) means you make macro mistakes and waves that should be farmed crash on the sidelanes turrets

Get Ogre HereMay 22, 20191 votes

Let me remind you that 1 out of your last 10 games has more than 8.0 cs.

Practice what you preach my man

A Chaotic MindMay 23, 20191 votes

but i am? that's literally one of my main goal every game and the main thing im trying to fix about my gameplay is to bring my average from 7 to 8

GodlyBaneMay 22, 20191 votes

Yep, your title pretty much sums up bad playing

Anu3isIIMay 22, 20191 votes

Unless you are behind, you should probably splitpush as a Talon and roam when it is to your advantage. While ADCs do get higher bonuses later on, they can't simply farm all your lanes.

NaalithMay 22, 20191 votes

So here's the thing: I'm pretty sure everyone here no matter what rank they are has games where they simply cannot farm for shit. Maybe it's because you're being abused in lane, maybe it's because you are roaming a lot, maybe it's because you are just trying to kill your lane opponent. It happens, and missing CS to secure objectives or kill a bunch of people in a gank will almost always be worth. The thing to keep in mind, however, is that depending on which minions you are missing around 15 minions equal a kill worth of gold. Now again, if you miss 15 CS but kill someone and cause them to miss like 21 CS by throwing the minions into their turret and get plates it is probably still worth.

Still though, if you're consistently not csing well every game to the point people point it out I would just say it's something good to work on. I do find it funny when ADC or Irelia players flame people for not having good cs because it's literally impossible to get cs while they are on your team but I would say if the game is going into the 30 minute area you should have minimum 200 cs either way.

EleshakaiMay 22, 20191 votes

If you have low creep counts, and you want to get better at the game, recognizing that as a weakness in your play and focusing on improving it will go a long way to helping you perform better.

Trying to claim it is not a weakness in your play will not help you.

The Highest NoonMay 22, 20191 votes

Ok first of all, how are you playing Talon and not CSing properly? He literally is built to be able to CS properly in a Ranged Mid meta!

kuzzy47May 22, 20191 votes

I see players with high cs numbers then just throw and do stupid shit.

church arsonMay 22, 20191 votes

To start with, I know I neither have good cs nor play good anymore, don't bother checking op.gg.

Look, if my support dies to enemy adc twice and gives them first AND second blood, I can't just leave turret and farm out there. I'll die. Adc will get fed even more.

I will wait for the wave to reach my turret and farm then, careful not to miss a single one.

I will wait for them to make a big mistake. Won't attack until then, because I'm not stupid. I'll deal some safe damage often, and dogde their abilities.

The thing is yes, sometimes trying to farm when it's not safe is bad, but inherently bad cs = bad playing.