As a GP main, I'm actually pleading with you: Get rid of Kleptomancy (Polite and Constructive)

AstroFerrari ·Jan 19, 2018·76 votes·5,130 views

Or completely revamp it. GP was a very balanced champion with a respectable and balanced win rate. He was clearly balanced in every way and had very, VERY clear weaknesses before Kleptomancy. He is now at nearly a 20% ban rate because of one rune and the only thing that has changed about him was the rune itself.

As an ADC, Ezreal was unquestionably the worst in the game. This is why people started taking him as a jungler. Kleptomancy comes and all of a sudden he is pick or ban with a win rate in a range of 53-56%.

Please Riot, do not nerf GP just because he can make good use of this rune. I've had a day or two to articulate this and I now know that Klepto either needs to be taken out of the game or changed heavily so that it works on champions outside of those that abuse on hit effects.

Without this rune, GP is balanced and Ezreal is still weak.

105 Comments

13900 EssenceJan 19, 201824 votes

I'd like to try other runes on him, but it just feels awful knowing that if you don't take klepto you are playing sub-optimally.

AstroFerrari Jan 19, 201815 votes

I agree whole-heartedly. I played a tankplank game using Grasp yesterday and even though we eventually pulled through with the win, going for Kleptomancy may have made that game a lot less stressful than it needed to be.

RainXBladeJan 19, 20183 votes

I feel like Klepto is too much of a liability rather than something that actually helps the champion. For cases like Ez and GP, not taking Klepto is already a sign that you're going to int or not play at your best level.

hi im sebJan 20, 20181 votes

id love to play some comet gp without looking like a troll :D

AstroFerrari Jan 20, 20181 votes

The comet/aery path isn't that bad and from the GP mains reddit, they say it's viable. I've yet to try it though.

JbelsJan 19, 20189 votes

You say GP was balanced before Klepto, but before we had Klepto, we had bandit, and Bandit caused every GP player to completely disregard the Krakens system for buying ult upgrades in favor of just shooting the other guy for 10 free gold. That's a health potion's worth of money every 5 shots. I won't claim to be a hard core GP main, but I've played him and I know well enough just hot shitty his gold loot on Q became, to the point that I pretty much GLADLY accepted this new style of "Shoot the other guy, get money", over the awful feeling Krakens.

I hope that if they do remove Klepto, they actually give GP a REASON to shoot the minions. If they removed Klepto right now, you might as well wait until you're about to lose a minion to a tower shot and just Q it for the extra damage.

Weiss GuertenaJan 20, 20183 votes

Riot kinda dug "just shoot the other guy" hole by themselves by repeatedly nerfing the aspect of last-hitting with your Q. It gave less gold than Bandit to start with - and then that gold gain was nerfed even further, and to add a final nail in the coffin 50% mana refund on last hit was removed.

So if my choice is to use 40 mana to obtain 3-7 gold OR use the same amount of mana to obtain 10 gold - no fucking shit I will always go for the latter.

Lios AshenbladeJan 20, 20188 votes

I have a weird idea, pls no flames... What if we combine klepto and futures market, so tagging someone with kelpto, puts money in "escrow" essentially, so you can get items faster, BUT you arent getting free wards, stats, potions and elixers? It would actually make more sense from a thematic stand point as well, since you are effectively filching gold, not items dude didnt even have

SalamencęJan 20, 20185 votes

Tfw you have to put "polite and constructive" in the title because all anyone does in gameplay is rant

AstroFerrari Jan 20, 20184 votes

[zombie-nunu-bummed] Hahaha the struggle is real my friend.

MrPhamtomJan 20, 20185 votes

Lol this is Riot we are talking about

they will Nerf GP and Nerf Klepto then remove Klepto and leave GP trash tier for years

MimrJan 20, 20185 votes

Well, I certainly hope they don't nerf GP because of Kleptomancy because I'm using a completely different playstyle with Comet.

H1 H0w are YaJan 19, 20184 votes

Just have it proc after using an Ability and exclude abilities like Ezreals Q, Nasus Q or GP Q. Make it so you physically must cast an ability and then auto

SalronJan 19, 201821 votes

It's a terribly designed rune and this does nothing to change the fact thats its also being used by several other bruisers toplane It needs to be deleted

H1 H0w are YaJan 19, 20187 votes

I honestly don't have a problem with it, I think it is great

SalronJan 19, 201817 votes

RNG and infinite mana is great?

H1 H0w are YaJan 19, 20189 votes

The RNG mechanic I think is super cool and the rune itself is interesting and I don't want it removed.

As far as infinite mana goes why are we pretending like klepto is why people have infinite mana when running oom has been near impossible for 2 seasons with things like item 3802 item 1056 and manaflow bond running around.

Klepto provides no combat stats nor anything that helps you in combat except the off chance you get an adaptive potion. People don't know how to punish that so it is annoying to play against. If you lane vs GP and he claps you every 4 seconds with his Q and you do nothing you deserve what you get

Velzard of KozJan 19, 201817 votes

The RNG mechanic I think is super cool

Yeah, how does one play online strategic game and thinks RNG is cool or contributing. I wish there was a Rune that gives you random item at the start of the game, which can be just Cloth Armor but also straight Infinity Edge. That would be cool that pure luck decides the amount of gold one gets basically for free, would be very competetive.

Klepto provides no combat stats nor anything that helps you in combat except the off chance you get an adaptive potion

Yeah, the gold it generates totally cannot be used for faster access to items that help in combat. You don't have to eat all the shit. I too think Runes I don't understand are cool.

LordGeovanniJan 20, 20182 votes

Strategic left years ago when burst started taking over half the health of fighters who had dedicated defensive items. and anytime people have less than 60% hp except early game they have to recall immediately because the next set is gonna hit harder with the amount of things in this game that scale off of missing health. if Rng is bad Plants and Crit should be removed the same time and after the intital complaint about plants and half a year people didnt even complain anymore

Velzard of KozJan 20, 20181 votes

Because Riot doesn't care. I still complain about plants and crit.

LordGeovanniJan 20, 20182 votes

Yea complaing about crit is popular now ive been complaining from season4 or 5 when the increased crit chance. Plants dont see it. I dont think klepto is op just that Ezreal is has a broken design like he always had and gp i dont see klepto on him as broken either he has to give up any SS and extra gold in lane though he can potitenally make that back if gold gain is good and if he is getting gold he most likely isnt getting items steadily as it only does one or the other in several minutes

H1 H0w are YaJan 22, 20181 votes

You can cry over it all you want, The gold earned from klepto isnt free, you have to proc it just like you have to proc grasp for the free HP. Randomly getting any item is just gifting you something you did nothing to earn. They arent relatable at all.

Giving up combat stats and damage early for a mid and late game scaling rune is fine by me.

Downvote me all you want, doesn't change the truth

Velzard of KozJan 22, 20181 votes

You can cry over it all you want

Downvote me all you want, doesn't change the truth

I could say the same and it wouldn't be an argument.

The truth is it's taken by those who don't have problem proccing it and purely based on luck they accumulate certain amount of gold to get items sooner. So they are relatable, it's about the gold it gives, which is absolutely random. Two players who proc the Rune with the same candency are rewarded differently in the gold it gives based on how lucky they are.

So... You can cry all you want and be stubborn, it won't change the fact it is heavily unheathly for competetive play.

H1 H0w are YaJan 22, 20181 votes

Well considering less the 1 percent of the player base plays this game competitively, your argument doesn't hold water.

Guess PUBG should just remove their entire game cause its RNG where you spawn people get advantages where they drop?

If they pick GP and you pick some shit tier laner like Malphite then you deserve what you get and he will consistently proc it on you compared to if you are playing Riven .

RNG is a part of most games, get used to it

Velzard of KozJan 22, 20181 votes

LOL.

Just because everyone else does it, doesn't mean it's good practise. And how about you compare games that are at least close to the same genre, so that it doesn't sound so ridiculous.

Additionally, I don't even know how you came to conclusion Riven can better deny the procs. I won't rather even say anything to that because I am not sure If you're trolling.

Especially since again, totally missing the point, even If he procs it equally consitently, randomness decides who gets more. And I complained about this foremost.

RNG is a part of most games, get used to it

Yeah, The Sims uses so much randomness, and somehow that's relevant because it's also a game, so nothing else matters.

H1 H0w are YaJan 22, 20181 votes

There is nothing inherently wrong with RNG and copious amounts of game models have proven it. You are bandwagoning on the hate because it is taken so much.

If you truly don't like it that much idk what to tell you but I am so glad riot introduced it.

You probably have 0 comments anywhere on the boards regarding crit mechanics in league for RNG.

Bandwagon hate more, wont change anything

Velzard of KozJan 22, 20181 votes

You literally just cover your ears and scream "You bandwagon", "Cry more" without even hearing any sense, no help here.

You are bandwagoning on the hate because it is taken so much.

No, I am complaining about it as much as I complain about any RNG because I have actual brain.

There is nothing inherently wrong with RNG and copious amounts of game models have proven it.

Earth is flat and scientists have proven it. Let the echo chamber begin.

You probably have 0 comments anywhere on the boards regarding crit mechanics in league for RNG.

No, I complain abou that too, yet again, I have a brain.

H1 H0w are YaJan 22, 20181 votes

Because I actually have a brain

OK kiddo how about you go back to watching Rick and Morty champ

Velzard of KozJan 23, 20181 votes

Because using term kiddo is something a person berating Rick and Morty due to a meme should do, lol. I only saw physically or mentally immature people use terms like "kiddo" really.

Automated RivenJan 20, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=H1 H0w are Ya,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bo1WaP7w,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-01-19T21:20:29.439+0000)

The RNG mechanic I think is super cool and the rune itself is interesting and I don't want it removed.

As far as infinite mana goes why are we pretending like klepto is why people have infinite mana when running oom has been near impossible for 2 seasons with things like and manaflow bond running around.

Klepto provides no combat stats nor anything that helps you in combat except the off chance you get an adaptive potion. People don't know how to punish that so it is annoying to play against. If you lane vs GP and he claps you every 4 seconds with his Q and you do nothing you deserve what you get

not like you dont get a bunch of elixers, true sight, skill points,gold,health pots,wards,

All of these things you now dont have to buy. Elixers are straight up damage and so are skill points. Gold and less consumables bought equal out to bonus damage through the items you get to purchase. I have played and hit full build at stupidly early timings with that fucking rune. Like in the 25-30 minute mark because I got RNG'd all kinds off cool sacks of gold which in turn RNG'd me all kinds of free gold. which let me back at like 5 minutes for tear and sheen and snowball the shit out of the game because the enemy adc didnt even have bfsword yet. The idea that klepto doesnt give you damage is simply a lie. Maybe not directly but it does a shit ton indirectly. (also if you sell your extra consumables and shit you can earn up to stupid ass numbers like 3k gold at 20-25 minutes. Thats an entire free item)

H1 H0w are YaJan 22, 20181 votes

As a GP main I have never gotten 2.5-3k gold from this rune ever, that is a straight up lie. You are listing all the things it can give but you never get all of them. Thats the RNG mechanic, ive played and gotten 0 sacks of gold and just potions, or 8 sacks of gold and no potions. Or just Adaptive potions. I get an elixir of skill probably 1/5 games.

Ya'll can downvote me all you want but I think it is the best and coolest thing riot has introduced in a long time. I've played against it a bunch too and have never thought it was toxic

Automated RivenJan 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=H1 H0w are Ya,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bo1WaP7w,comment-id=0000000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2018-01-22T20:01:30.162+0000)

As a GP main I have never gotten 2.5-3k gold from this rune ever, that is a straight up lie. You are listing all the things it can give but you never get all of them. Thats the RNG mechanic, ive played and gotten 0 sacks of gold and just potions, or 8 sacks of gold and no potions. Or just Adaptive potions. I get an elixir of skill probably 1/5 games.

Ya'll can downvote me all you want but I think it is the best and coolest thing riot has introduced in a long time. I've played against it a bunch too and have never thought it was toxic

As far as I know the toolip only shows the gold that is actively granted from the rune :IE sacks of gold and the onhit gold gen. I was counting selling elixers and potions which are granted from the item and also counting effective gold such as wards. its not exactly a stretch to assume that when you play with the klepto rune you save a bunch of gold also as your never required to get either health pots and you can sell these things for a fair bit of gold themselves.

SaturnSC1Jan 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bo1WaP7w,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-19T21:12:46.590+0000)

It's a terribly designed rune and this does nothing to change the fact thats its also being used by several other bruisers toplane It needs to be deleted

Ekko Draven Ezreal Fiora Gangplank Illaoi Jax Nasus

AstroFerrari Jan 19, 20181 votes

The thing about this is that all those champions have other abilities ready to go on relatively low cooldowns. GP can just drop a barrel and go in for the auto. And I think Klepto needs a set cooldown as well

TheSandQratorJan 21, 20181 votes

It had an internal cooldown, like other Spellblade effects (at least at once point). The problem is it's got no visible timer, so either way it's hard to tell at a glance. I remember testing it when it first came out and saw it actually seemed to have a level-based scaling (lower the higher level). Rough numbers were like 5s to 2s, off the top of my head.

Though don't take that as gospel, they might have changed it in the meantime.

Shatter the SunJan 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It had an internal cooldown, like other Spellblade effects (at least at once point). The problem is it's got no visible timer, so either way it's hard to tell at a glance. I remember testing it when it first came out and saw it actually seemed to have a level-based scaling (lower the higher level). Rough numbers were like 5s to 2s, off the top of my head.

Though don't take that as gospel, they might have changed it in the meantime.

It still does have a cd. Its the same time as a item 3057 cd. 2 sec intervals so people like Lucian cant proc it 4 times in a full combo. If he does it fast enough he can only proc it once.

Iffy JarlJan 20, 20181 votes

What clear weaknesses are remedied by a mere gold boost
"Ezreal was unquestionably the worst in the game" False.

AstroFerrari Jan 20, 20181 votes

Gold boost (before Klepto) was easily countered simply playing a champion GP can't get close enough to Q or could harass him out of farm. Swain, Jayce, Ornn, Kled, Pantheon, Vladimir, and Kayle, just to name a few, were all more than capable of this and very easily neutered his lane phase.
By looking at the op.gg sample size from 7.12 going forward, Ezreal's average win rate from that time span up to preseason 8 ranged from 43% to 49%, only seeing a rise in winrate due to people taking him in the jungle. He was statistically the worst ADC or bottom 2 ADC for a good while.

Iffy JarlJan 20, 20181 votes

how does klepto change that at all?

I'll concede that I was just joking about ezreal I was just memeing on kindred and quinn

Janna Me FiddleJan 20, 20181 votes

TBH with how strong Klepto is, it's not going to stop getting abused.

Jax Fiora Illaoi are three that need it simply to exist in the meta (Illaoi is arguably OP, but that's more because the meta shifted into her favor with that fast scaling meaning her extremely powerful midgame spike stays around usually until the end of the game)

There are other champions that have it as an option such as Udyr Kled MonkeyKing and Poppy

Then there are those that are straight up OP with it

Nasus Gangplank and Ezreal

I'd like to see Klepto become less abusive for sure, but I'd also like to see those that are OP with it balanced in some way.

Nasus Lower the armor reduction from his E

Ezreal wouldn't really need any work with klepto nerfed and the relic shield nerf will likely sort him out anyway.

Gangplank needs a trade off nerf, I'd rather not see them make his Q unusable with Klepto, what I'd rather see is barrel explosions not chaining on hit effects, lower the SS cost for ulti upgrades as compensation.

Oakleaf RangerJan 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Janna Me Fiddle,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bo1WaP7w,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2018-01-20T04:44:17.061+0000)

TBH with how strong Klepto is, it's not going to stop getting abused.

are three that need it simply to exist in the meta (Illaoi is arguably OP, but that's more because the meta shifted into her favor with that fast scaling meaning her extremely powerful midgame spike stays around usually until the end of the game)

There are other champions that have it as an option such as and

Then there are those that are straight up OP with it

and

I'd like to see Klepto become less abusive for sure, but I'd also like to see those that are OP with it balanced in some way.

Lower the armor reduction from his E

wouldn't really need any work with klepto nerfed and the relic shield nerf will likely sort him out anyway.

needs a trade off nerf, I'd rather not see them make his Q unusable with Klepto, what I'd rather see is barrel explosions not chaining on hit effects, lower the SS cost for ulti upgrades as compensation.

Besides the obvious ones like GP and EZ, why would any of the others take klepto. They would get destroyed if they took that. If your winning with klepto on those champions, it because your way better than your opponent or your opponent high tier trash.

Janna Me FiddleJan 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Besides the obvious ones like GP and EZ, why would any of the others take klepto. They would get destroyed if they took that. If your winning with klepto on those champions, it because your way better than your opponent or your opponent high tier trash.

Jax Fiora and Illaoi live and die by Klepto, the others it's an option, if they get a favorable lane match up for instance.

Oakleaf RangerJan 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Janna Me Fiddle,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bo1WaP7w,comment-id=001300000000,timestamp=2018-01-20T06:22:41.822+0000)

Jax Fiora and Illaoi live and die by Klepto, the others it's an option, if they get a favorable lane match up for instance.

holy shit i checked op.gg and those 3 do take lul. I can see Illaoi taking it because you can proc it on champion spirits but everyone else is just asking to be destroyed in laning. Fiora is a bullshit champion though so if you can get her to late she could still probably beat almost anyone in 1v1/2 in the mid to late game even against a person with a rune that synergizes much better with them than a fiora with klepto.

Jax though is the one I doubt for sure. He would just get clobbered by anyone with a combat oriented rune. And unlike these champions, Jax lacks a way to farm without putting himself in a position to get all ined/poked down with no innate sustain. Going into the laning phase as Jax with Klepto just seems like your asking for hell.

Votable JesterJan 20, 20181 votes

Fiora's Q applies on-hit effects, including Klepto.

Oakleaf RangerJan 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bo1WaP7w,comment-id=00130000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-20T19:22:01.868+0000)

Fiora's Q applies on-hit effects, including Klepto.

but it doesn't enhance her laning strengths or cover up her weaknesses. If your procing Klepto and vitals against someone in a match up that isn't inherently Fiora favored then you were probably just a better player and runes wouldn't even have mattered to win in the first place on your part.

Unless your saying that people are just Qing their opponent without bothering to aim for vitals in which case you should be getting destroyed in those kinds of trades as the Fiora.

Janna Me FiddleJan 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

holy shit i checked op.gg and those 3 do take lul. I can see Illaoi taking it because you can proc it on champion spirits but everyone else is just asking to be destroyed in laning. Fiora is a bullshit champion though so if you can get her to late she could still probably beat almost anyone in 1v1/2 in the mid to late game even against a person with a rune that synergizes much better with them than a fiora with klepto.

Jax though is the one I doubt for sure. He would just get clobbered by anyone with a combat oriented rune. And unlike these champions, Jax lacks a way to farm without putting himself in a position to get all ined/poked down with no innate sustain. Going into the laning phase as Jax with Klepto just seems like your asking for hell.

the pots you pilfer from Klepto give you plentiful laning sustain and you level up counter strike first. When you see a positioning mistake or someone attempts to engage on you, throw up counter strike, auto , W, auto, counter strike procs, Q away.

as always, ban out Teemo, you literally have no way to deal with his poke early on.

Oakleaf RangerJan 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Janna Me Fiddle,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bo1WaP7w,comment-id=00130000000000000001,timestamp=2018-01-20T19:42:19.567+0000)

the pots you pilfer from Klepto give you plentiful laning sustain and you level up counter strike first. When you see a positioning mistake or someone attempts to engage on you, throw up counter strike, auto , W, auto, counter strike procs, Q away.

as always, ban out Teemo, you literally have no way to deal with his poke early on.

Counter strikes wont stop non auto attack based damage though and even then most champions have ways of getting around it or forcing it before to going for an extended trade. E max also means an even weaker laning phase trading wise. That combined with a lack of built in sustain and combat runes means any meta laner at least should be destroying you. Also just like Klepto a lot of the runes in Inspiration aren't directly combat focused meaning even less trading power. That rune set up is just too greedy on Jax imo.

Janna Me FiddleJan 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Counter strikes wont stop non auto attack based damage though and even then most champions have ways of getting around it or forcing it before to going for an extended trade. E max also means an even weaker laning phase trading wise. That combined with a lack of built in sustain and combat runes means any meta laner at least should be destroying you. Also just like Klepto a lot of the runes in Inspiration aren't directly combat focused meaning even less trading power. That rune set up is just too greedy on Jax imo.

and yet it's currently the only one that works for him. Press the attack used to until it got nerfed, thunderbolt doesn't feel good on him at all, grasp is meh, glacial augment is severely underpowered which only really leaves him with fleet footwork or klepto.

Hopefully when the bruiser rune is finished we'll have another option.

and don't underestimate how good free boots and stopwatch are, I've won level 6 all ins off of it.

Shatter the SunJan 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Besides the obvious ones like GP and EZ, why would any of the others take klepto. They would get destroyed if they took that. If your winning with klepto on those champions, it because your way better than your opponent or your opponent high tier trash.

Illaoi takes it cause she can proc it on her E and has a really strong laning phase allowing her to be a bully with her W. Not many other keystones are good on her. Klepto makes win harder and gain even more of a lead and essentially drown her enemies in a huge lead if fed. Its usually just a win harder rune for her.

Nasus / Jax both take it to concede the laning phase to hit their late game power spike in mid game instead. There are other options but if you can afford to give the laning phase and remain atleast somewhat decent then you most likely will get to mid game with a late game power. Problem with this is that any really aggressive laner nullifies this cause you have to be aggressive somewhat to get procs but you just gave up your laning phase.

Fiora kinda falls into the same category as Illaoi as in she can be super aggressive without much harm to her laning phase but has problems with aggressive laners like Nasus or Jax .

Something that all the klepto users have in common is that they scale really well with items and usually hit their spikes late game or late mid game but with the help of klepto and a bit of luck can get their spikes much earlier.

TheSandQratorJan 21, 20182 votes

Since I only really play Nasus I'll speak for him in particular. Although I did get a Kleptomancy Ezreal game earlier and good god I had to shower after because I felt dirty.

Nasus really doesn't make use of Kleptomancy except as a "win more" rune, but damn it's effective when it works. His Siphoning Strike isn't up enough for it to be consistently procced early game, where it really matters a heap. Because of its cooldown and how comparatively rubbish he is in early trades, he's not got too much incentive to consistently dump effort into getting a klepto proc. Most times it's used it was incidental, I find. Once he starts aggressing, though, then he starts properly raking it in. You know how it is, when after he's gotten over his early hump and he's actually a lot more willing to trade hits. And that, on top of the fact you can't bully him away from the farm now, on top of the occasional kill he gets... Whew.

What is really exacerbating his win rate right now though is the Ancient Coin start that's popular. We can all agree that he's pretty pants until he gets a component item or two but after that small step, good lord. It's super super hard to choke him out of money with that. Because of pretty much the coin alone in one game (and first tower gold from bot), I was down 30CS, and a kill vs a Darius. But I was 150g ahead. He'd played everything super well up to that point, but because Coin was in my pocket (actually upgraded to Nomad's at that point), I was ahead. I was super surprised when I looked through the replay.

That should resolve itself some with the changes to support items, I know a bunch of folks are more apprehensive about the sightstone being given to them than the super strong Talisman. But I'm just as excited for the nearly-free sightstone. More vision? Yes please!