SO just looking at the numbers, why are AD champions the ones who get most of the true damage?

deadlychuck·Apr 22, 2017·1 votes·758 views

12 AD / 5 AP (not including neural exclusive true damage like nunu Q)

I really don't understand this at all, especially when armor shred/pen is such a common mechanic on champions, far more common and any form of magic pen. And the armor pen itemization is much better than that of magic pen, when when you factor in the 10% nerf coming to LW.

RITO, tone down the true damage on AD champions, they have enough options to bypass the ONLY stat intended to diminish their damage, yet you keep given them more of both.

27 Comments

Xivilai AnaxesApr 22, 201710 votes

SO just looking at the numbers, why are AP champions the ones who get most of the AoE damage, Utility and CC?

ChønklordApr 22, 20171 votes

They don't.

Xivilai AnaxesApr 22, 20172 votes

Give me three big scary AD AoE ultimates that will probably win a teamfight by themselves.

I can give you wukong.

Yasuo barely counts and I'm just letting him over the line because you've got your work cut out already as is.

Meanwhile I can give you

Brand Galio Gragas (kinda) Katarina Kennen Morgana Orianna Rumble

That's not including big phat AoE cc that doesn't straight molest everyone like Ekko or that generic CC is almost always more reliable and safe to use on APs like Lux than it is on ADs like Pantheon.

ChønklordApr 22, 20171 votes

Scary aoe: Hecarim Camille Fiora Gangplank Illaoi

Ad champs with mobility/cc/utility:

Aatrox Braum Caitlyn Camille Corki Darius Draven Ezreal Fiora Gangplank Gnar Graves Hecarim Illaoi Irelia JarvanIV Jax Jayce Jhin Jinx Kalista Khazix Kindred Kled KogMaw LeeSin Leona Lucian MissFortune Nasus Nocturne Olaf Pantheon Poppy Quinn Rammus RekSai Renekton Rengar Riven Shen Sion Sivir Skarner Talon Thresh Tristana Trundle Tryndamere Udyr Varus Volibear Warwick MonkeyKing XinZhao Yasuo Yorick

To name a few.

Xivilai AnaxesApr 22, 20171 votes

Camille? Aoe? You realise her ult is single target, right?

Gangplank ult is the opposite of scary.

Hecarim's radius is tiny as hell, does mediocre at best damage while also fearing them to screw up any combos you might want to set that up with. Basically a shitty malphite ult.

Fiora's ult AoE is situational as hell, almost nobody cares about the heal as much as they do the single target damage.

Illaoi sure I'll give it to you, even though her ult is a MASSIVE noobtrap.

If you're seriously going to paste every ad champion with even the slightest of any of those categories (counting slows is really reaching seriously what the fuck dude and neither is Leona AD nor thresh for that matter)

If I had the patience I could reach exactly as much as you did and make an equally long and irrelevant table.

Seriously what the fuck, Leona?

ChønklordApr 22, 20171 votes

CC: Crow Control

In league we have soft cc and hard cc.

Soft = slows, taunts, etc Hard = stuns, roots, disables, etc

Leona and Thresh are both AD champs but scale from AP for some spells/damage

ChønklordApr 22, 20171 votes

also panth cc is point click 2s stun on extremely low cd. Lux has a skillshot root

I'll give you a hint which is more reliable and safe.

Xivilai AnaxesApr 22, 20174 votes

Pantheon stun isn't two seconds, are you stupid?

Pantheon has to lunge into melee to use that and the range is ass as well. Lux has a mile long skillshot with a fat hitbox.

Pantheons stun cd is TWO seconds shorter than Lux's snare (and can only cc half the targets for half the time).

If you're going to spit stuff out at least fucking know what you're talking about.

ChønklordApr 22, 20171 votes

My bad on the stun CD times, but regardless it's a point->click ability, not a skill shot.

It's very easy to dodge lux's snare, actually.

I can't take you seriously anymore, sorry.

RalanrApr 22, 20171 votes

Pantheon's stun is magic damage.

HeresyHorusApr 22, 20171 votes

real men will tell u that Pantheon is an ap champ.

so many pentas with that manly mandrop.

[zombie-nunu-hearts]

deadlychuckApr 22, 20171 votes

They do?

Or are you just ignoring the majority of champions which don't actually have more?

I mean AP champions can't buy AOE damage and healing like AD can. There are definitely some champions which have these things, but AP champions are completely depended on the champion having them, and not able to purchase them as AD can do with far more aspects. The only real exception is rylai's, but even that's not as significant as going from having no % damage to botrk or having no healing and getting a hydra, and AD does still have frozenmallet, unique ms passives, and botrk slow...

AD champions have more build diversity, because AP is far more dependent on the champion design than the itemization. It's not that itemizing isn't important for AP champions, it's that you're not really going to change your play patterns what so ever no matter what build you, you're only sacrificing power if you don't just stick to the optimal build.

Xivilai AnaxesApr 22, 20173 votes

can't buy AoE damage and healing

item 3285 item 3146 item 3010

Also today I've learned that Ravenous counts as "strong AoE"

Also indirectly implying that unique champions are less important than having a load of whacky AP items :^)

deadlychuckApr 22, 20171 votes

Idk what you're quoting, because that's literally the first use of the word strong in this thread, and i never claimed hydra to be strong aoe, but because you want to bring up the power of it... i'd say that having an active AoE and AoE every auto attack is a far superior form of purchasable AoE than echo.

Yes, congratz, they left in a single item which applies to healing with magic damage. It's not like spell vamp applied to physical damage (which it totally did) and 15% healing (5% for AoE, so like every ability, even if they're effectively single target skills), which is often going to cost you mana to get a pathetically small amount of health from is not exactly on up to snuff when you compare the healing that AD has access to item 3153 item 3812 item 3074 item 3072 which costs them nothing and can easily heal a champion to full health in a few autos.

Hell, try this (it's actually pretty funny how this even exists) Trundle item 3153 item 3074 item 3072 item 3065 item 3143 item 3047

Just find a minion wave, and tank the damage from 2-3 enemies while you out heal them. Obviously if they buy something like item 3123 it will pretty much screw you, but even just trying this out in the practice mode you'll see what i'm talking about.

ChønklordApr 22, 20171 votes

Shhh you're ruining my ~~good mood~~ secret trundle low elo carry build. Also you can easily lifesteal against executioners with those 3 items on almost any high DPS champ plus some

deadlychuckApr 22, 20171 votes

lol i've actually tanked 3 people under tower with it because there was a single minion wave (+ champions obviously) to lifesteal from.

ChønklordApr 22, 20171 votes

Ppfffft you needed a minion wave? Lifesteal off of their champion's corpses. Are you running any lifesteal quints + the vamp/lifesteal masteries also?

Take a look at my op.gg rune page called "troll KING". Works wonders for trundle

deadlychuckApr 22, 20171 votes

I assumed the runes and masteries could be implied based on the rest of the build.

ChønklordApr 22, 20171 votes

item 3146 does not provide lifesteal like item 3153 item 3812 item 3072 item 3074 item 3139 do. It's spellvamp which is significantly weaker when it comes to regaining health from life stealing which fundamentally works better on DPS champs.

item 3010 is specific component to roa and some other it4ms which returns a small portion of damage done to you as healing over time and mana refund. It's primarily used for aoe champs like swain etc. no significant "lifesteal" here either.

item 3285 is pitiful excuse for "aoe damage".

KONO RUBICK DAApr 22, 20173 votes

looking at the numbers, why are AP getting more utility than AD?

deadlychuckApr 22, 20171 votes

They don't?

Just because supports and tanks tend to be AP doesn't mean that AP has more utility.

KONO RUBICK DAApr 22, 20172 votes

{quoted}

They don't?

every single mage, every single character that uses AP has more utility than characters building AD

want me to do the list? might as well make the list of AP characters that aren't loaded with utility it's going to be faster

deadlychuckApr 22, 20171 votes

Well if you want to sure, but first explicitly state the axioms by which you are defining and quantifying "utility". With the larger list of stats and unique passives that AD champions can viably pick up, i think you'll find that they have just as much.

DokkaebiApr 22, 20171 votes

[deleted]

KONO RUBICK DAApr 22, 20172 votes

you mean, the champion that is able to give movement speed to an ally, while healing an ally for half of their hp, as well as the champion able to clone a dragon to push and make the fight 6v4 while able to potentially steal a passive from an enemy?

oh wow, i guess that it's not utility

meanwhile talon and zed utility: one slow kek