Add limits for Smites in team

dEAdbUs·Apr 25, 2015·3 votes·392 views

Two smites is too op. Toplaners now can counterjung too, and this is not fun.

9 Comments

IcyPepperApr 25, 20157 votes

Or maybe we could not, and allow strategic diversity to take place? Not all top-laners can do well without one of their core summoners, and not taking flash over smite is a signal for a good jungler to camp their ass.

In team games, it's easier to pull off and/or handle, but uncoordinated solo queue ends up with people getting wrecked (because they have no idea what they're actually doing when they copy pros, or they build no bonus HP at all) or people not knowing what to do against it so they immediately head to the forums to ask for a nerf because they don't know how to counter it.

Look, you have to sacrifice a spell to get smite, and people have been meta-breaking with multiple smites for a long time. I double-jungled before, hell I even had a five-smite team before (Pentakill team, anyone?). Don't kill strategic diversity to enforce a meta because YOU don't like it, just live and let live. Let people try different strategies and learn how to counter them instead of whining about it and being helpless. If you're jungling, camp their ass. It's not hard.

Angry MonsterApr 25, 20151 votes

So i am not saying the OP is right. But do you want the junglers going into your lane(assuming your top) to farm. If you are kool with top laners jumping in the jungle then you need to be fine with junglers taking the lane farm.

Most of the time people freak out that the jungler is taking lane farm. Now though its ok for top laners to constantly eat gromp or doubles? Smells like a double standard.

IcyPepperApr 25, 20151 votes

Taking smite doesn't necessarily mean the top laner is going to take all your farm. Some people use smite to secure cannon minion (the cooldown is well-timed, I believe), they use smite as an offensive spell with challenger or chilling smite, and they use it to help secure objectives (along with teleport) or counterjungle the enemy.

And junglers taking lane farm... well it's about the timing. There's jungle tax, holding lanes, soaking up XP when your laner isn't there... there's no rule that says junglers can't kill minions or laners can't kill camps (red/blue buff being obvious examples), it's just not smart to overdo it.

Now, I'm a jungle main, so I try to look at it from both angles. I can't top for shit, but I cooperate with top mains quite a lot. You grow to appreciate those who help your ganks instead of just waiting to last-hit.

Most of the time people freak out that the jungler is taking lane farm. Now though its ok for top laners to constantly eat gromp or doubles? Smells like a double standard.

I'll be honest, it only matters if I'm on that side of the jungle. If I'm at base or on the opposite side of the map, it's fine (plus it resets the camp's level so I get more XP anyway, so win-win!). I'd rather they ask, but it ultimately doesn't matter too much. On the flip-side, laners (especially mids who want blue or adc's who want red) should at least know how jungle tax works to eliminate the double-standard.

Angry MonsterApr 25, 20151 votes

Taking smite doesn't necessarily mean the top laner is going to take all your farm. Some people use smite to secure cannon minion (the cooldown is well-timed, I believe), they use smite as an offensive spell with challenger or chilling smite, and they use it to help secure objectives (along with teleport) or counter jungle the enemy.

This is not what is happening and we might as well be talking make believe. If you are using the smite correctly you push your wave run to a camp, kill it and run back for the next wave. The counter is that you are running to your own camps and take them also. This is limiting jungling options for the jungler.

Now lets talk about the gold income. Jungle camps give way more gold than a normal creep and add the smite bonus its way more than canon. Now the extra income for the starved jungler is being diverted into laners (not intended). Rememeber how in the early season junglers were making less than supports? Well when you are limiting junglers early game cause others are talking the farm you are going to end back there.

And junglers taking lane farm... well it's about the timing. There's jungle tax, holding lanes, soaking up XP when your laner isn't there... there's no rule that says junglers can't kill minions or laners can't kill camps (red/blue buff being obvious examples), it's just not smart to overdo it.

except it takes over 60 seconds currently for a camp to come back. How is the jungler supposed to track when another player is kill his jungler?

Now, I'm a jungle main, so I try to look at it from both angles. I can't top for shit, but I cooperate with top mains quite a lot. You grow to appreciate those who help your ganks instead of just waiting to last-hit.

meaningless for this conversation.

I'll be honest, it only matters if I'm on that side of the jungle. If I'm at base or on the opposite side of the map, it's fine (plus it resets the camp's level so I get more XP anyway, so win-win!). I'd rather they ask, but it ultimately doesn't matter too much. On the flip-side, laners (especially mids who want blue or adc's who want red) should at least know how jungle tax works to eliminate the double-standard.

I sorta addressed this already in the other points. How are you going to track your camps when at best your top laner and at worse both top laners are constantly trying to take the jungle instead of fighting in there lane?

If 2 smites are good on a team why not 3? Blu smite on a tank support with cinder hulk easly could work. The ADC support could start at a camp and easily duo it. At mid game the support could have a sightstone, gold item and a fully upgraded jungle item. Blu smite would allow them to stick if a tank and or help peel if a mage. You can not say no your jungle to a support if its ok for a top.

You see the problem now?

dEAdbUsApr 25, 20153 votes

If champion building Sunfire, he can easily change it with jung item and take Smite.

Now you look, Smite gives nice options for lane: slowing + dealing damage, reducing target damage + dealing damage, healing + getting mana + clearing waves. Smite now is a great option for tanks on toplane. Sure assassins will prefer to get another spell, but tanks? I don't think they re sacrificing too much. Remember first jungle items? Lizard Spirit etc? They bring some diversity too, but later they were nerfed.

IcyPepperApr 25, 20151 votes

shrugs

Problem with cinderhulk and rushing it early is the lack of armor than sunfire gives (and less flat HP, so unless you build more instead of a damage item...), and it has lower damage for non-extended trades.

Now, look, I like the strategic diversity. I wouldn't mind cinderhulk being toned down a bit, I just honestly find the new strategy to be interesting over everyone taking flash+teleport. Hell, flash is a boring spell to me, but it's so powerful practically everyone needs it. When someone can take smite instead of flash and not feed, even if they don't stomp, it leads to some interesting diversity. I wouldn't mind if Riot changed some things so it wasn't the only good strat, but I want it at least to the point where it's on equal terms with other strategies so I can get a little variety in my games.

Besides, smite itself is not the issue. I've run double to five smites on a team before, even before cinderhulk was a thing. It's a different strategy that has its strengths (objective control, counterjungling) and its weaknesses (lacking a utility spell such as exhaust, heal, ignite, teleport, flash, etc). I'm all for nerfing whatever needs to be nerfed, but imposing a summoner spell limit on teams would be overbearing, controlling, and just not fun.

Angry MonsterApr 25, 20151 votes

He is actually pretty new to league and was not around for the original jungle items. He started late season 3 or early 4.

Change tank to bruiser though